That sounds very dramatic, “do or die,” but it’s one of the possible energy signatures of Mars aspecting Pluto, as it does today in square. In fact, the reason I bring it up is that is the phrase that sprang to my mind the moment I woke up this morning. It’s the ultimate motivator, right? It is unless you have a deathwish.
My first conscious thought this morning was a jolting, “DO or DIE.” Do you know what I did? I thought, “meh, die,” and snuggled back down into the covers. I have Pluto conjunct Uranus (vague generational deathwish) opposite my sun and trining my moon, hitting nearly everything in my chart. Pluto moon can bring a bit of that desire all on its own anyway. Death doesn’t really motivate me; bring it. What motivates me is having something to say and having to get out of bed to do it. My Mercury is caught up with Pluto and so is my Mars. All my personal planets are involved, motivation.
It occurs to me that I hardly ever hear anyone talk about their own deathwish; it’s always someone else’s. I guess it’s taboo. Having a deathwish energy does not mean you’re going to kill yourself. It can just be as simple as lacking motivation in the whole “do or die” question. The key here is to find other motivation besides “die.” I have a lot of Pluto tied up with a lot of Neptune. That’s a lot of pain/death/escape energy. Pisces wants escape anyway; hook it up with Pluto and… That’s where my own particular deathwish comes from. Sometimes I want it to stop. Still, I’m always looking for the less permanent solution.
There are too many things that are worth living for, like swedish fish. But I don’t fear death. That is the up-side to a deathwish. Once you follow it through logically in your mind it loses its deep fear-inducing quality, and its appeal. It can lead you to discovering a deep well of strength. You’re not just acting out of survival once you’ve found your deeper motivation. Oooo, growth.
Have a deathwish? Do you know someone who does? Do you talk about it?
sounds like a pisces neptune merging thing to me.
I don’t – I’m not afraid to die though.
I have Mars/Pluto sq natally. I watch/listen a lot of stuff from WWII.
i have mars sq. pluto natally too. i think it mostly gets funneled into my work (mars in the 6th). for the past two weeks i’ve been working my butt off in a very do or die way after i found out i have competition at work 😉 heh, i kind of like this post. the upside of mars/pluto is alot of energy. never thought of it like that (maybe you didn’t mean it this way but i’m seeing it as good)
Yes – always have. It always felt like an option: “well I can always do THAT…” if need be.
I don’t have parents. I don’t have kids. Who am I responsible for/to? Me? It’s not enough. For me it’s caught up with meaning, meaning in my life. So I have animals. I am responsible for them. Okay, can’t die unless they are taken care of. And so on. This is the conversation in my head during dark times, such as when Saturn was on my moon and pluto.
I like talking about it. Sometimes I’ll say “well, this is the least suicidal I’ve ever been!” Gallows humor but truth there.
I like having an out. I fear aging and sickness more than death. I want to be free. The body and the world here so often feel like a terrible trap, a prison.
Also, Pisces descendent, Pisces NN, Venus square Neptune, Venus in House 12, Neptune trine Mercury Mars
(riffing on the idea of the merge)
I get you on the gallows humor. I can tell how well I’m doing by how serious the voice in my head is when it says, “well, I could kill myself.” it’s just become shorthand for “things feel bad.”
mostly it’s just like the Dread Pirate Roberts, “goodnight Westley, sleep well. I’ll most likely kill you in the morning.”
yes! shorthand for “things that feel bad” – things that feel REALLY bad.
I wonder if some people have a death wish more than a life force
My roommate for example has said at various times: “oh i could NEVER kill myself”
it’s the ultimate in hopelessness. And yet i would actually feel more comfortable if I DID have a way if needed. That may sound scary but it’s how I feel
I have saturn involved so at a certain point there was a decision of never for me. but it was a decision I weighed and came to for myself. not some outside force of “I can’t” because of others.
someone just texted me “how are you?” I replied, “passing the open windows,” as in I’m not jumping out of them. 🙂 a reference from The Hotel New Hampshire by John Irving.
Satori I am in desperate need of a haircut and I wish I could go to you for it!
😀 I would like that! I have way more to offer than gossip as far as the convo goes!
Wow, you guys!
Satori, I just snorted when I read the line – “meh, Die.” Wow, have I been feeling this energy today. I wish I could give you the astrology behind it, but I just don’t know enough.
And MoonPluto – right there with ya. My dogs and horses are the ONLY thing that has kept me here, my entire life. I get the “prison” feeling oh so well. Either that, or I’m quite sure I’m on the wrong planet.
Thanks, ladies. I’ve been having a rough day, couldn’t figure out why, and now I feel better!
Hotel New Hampshire: one of my favorite novels!
Aw Kim, you are not alone (I don’t mean to be corny, I mean it)
Keep passing the open windows Kim! “sorrow floats!”
Oh I love this post! I have Mars sq Pluto natally and DEFinitely feel the do or die thing. But what I never thought about is why I pick die more often than do! I do have a Neptune-Pluto type of escapist deathwish….
I am still working on transforming that intense escapist wish into intense motivation to achieve my goal.
The upside of Mars sq Pluto is when I get mad – I have the capability to move mountains.
I’m not scared of death either. I don’t think death is the hard part, it’s the pain leading up to it…ill health, depression….i don’t think of the actual death as painful. I’m just not afraid to die.
Some people fear death, other people fear living.
“meh, die.” hee.
I know about this a bit. Must be Pluto in the 12th. But seeing what kind of weird thing is likely to be around the next corner is worth living for. Now, if I could find the courage to live passionately.
Also, Swedish fish are good…
death. ok. prolonged pain, not so much. do not like prolonged physical pain. if it ends in life maybe. actually, yes. have done it. would do it again. but long hard pain to end in death? not so much. self inflicted death? not so much. dorothy parker said it best. might as well live. (though that was after a couple of suicide attempts, yes?) i’ve taken a bullet in a dream and it was highly unpleasant, to say the least.
Great! Thanks, Ladies, and special greetings to moonpluto! Yes, I do have a permanent deathwish, and yes, meanwhile I like to talk about it. In fact, I could have just gone, passed away after my kids were born. I´d gotten a very severe sepsis that wasn´t detected for four days. No one thought i could ever make it… I wouldn´t have wanted to at all but I felt the responsibility towards my kids who I wouldn´t leave in the hands of my weird twisted aries parents.
Yes, it´s all about responsibilities… It´s not that I´m all doom and gloom here, but my joy in life springs mostly from the joy of knowing it´s so temporary. I love death in a very intimate way, somehow. Do I fear living? No, not really, now I´m used to it. But my eagerness to get involved is definitely limited.
it’s weird to read that people would rather kill themselves than end up in the situation that you find yourself in, presently.
@ jilly. that would be weird. but i guess we all have our limits. no. wait. i thik a lot of the time we actually don’t know what our limits are. i’ve been through a few things where, if you has said: michele, this will happen to you. my response: no way. where’s the chainsaw?
not sure what the appropriate things is… a hug your way or a smile… maybe a bit of both.
no one really knows what they will do or what they will want until they are actually IN a certain situation. I think when people talk about such things we are talking about projections based on what we know, which is not always much, and FEAR, big fear.
love you, Jilly.
you are somewhere we’ve never been and you’re making it less foreign through your reports. that is incredibly valuable. it must suck to constantly have to educate people about where you are. but it’s a huge service.
I’ve heard several people in different situations talk of how people say, oh that thing you’re going through, I could never do that! I wish people would think about that statement. you don’t know what you can do or will do until you face it. I imagine it’s pretty isolating to hear that.
that is, something extreme happens to you so you must be different. it’s a way of psychological protection, “that couldn’t happen to me.” fear.
but I’m sure people mean well when they say it.
@ satori. i think people do mean well. and those that do go through unfathomable experience and talk about it ARE doing something of great service to others. (having been on both sides.) no matter how awkward the whole thing can be. for myself, certainly, this thread opened this up for me a little more. one more reason why i admire the honesty here.
Yeah, the cats – responsibility. Though sometimes I plan even finding them a new home first. And Virgo always thinks of let’s get everything packed up and out of here first and arrange all the paperwork so there’s no mess left. Looked out a couple of metaphorical windows in the last few years. In Human Design I have this Channel of Struggle and sometimes it’s just is life worth living. And being a stranger in a strange land – I say that all the time. Why one of my fave movies of all times is The Man Who Fell to Earth.
It’s is very reassuring to be able to talk about this here without anyone flipping their switch and trying to stuff you full of meds or bundle you off somewhere ‘safe’.
Between my natal and progressed charts I’ve got Pluto aspecting the lot and loads of sublimated Mars.
Next time I’m ‘blue’ I drop by this thread again and won’t feel so alone or misunderstood.
Hugs to everyone.
I can’t say that I do 🙂
I have deathwishes when I am in a situation that is so awful that the only escape/relief/solution to it is death, or I fear that it is going to go to the logical conclusion of a slow, awful death. My dad’s health situation dragged on for 10 years and it was basically either he goes, or I do, because that’s the only way out of this hell.
“I’ve heard several people in different situations talk of how people say, oh that thing you’re going through, I could never do that! I wish people would think about that statement. you don’t know what you can do or will do until you face it.”
Yeah, well, when you are in that situation, you can’t freaking leave it, really. I already have tons of guilt and shame for not being what my parents needed me to be, how much guilt and shame would I have now if I’d run off to the opposite coast and refused to deal? Come on.
Oh, I definitely get this! 12th house moon/mercury trined by pluto in scorpio, so always been strangely comfortable with the idea to be honest. Soon as I wrapped my head around the idea that we all have to die eventually, the actually when/where/how didn’t seem so terribly important. I don’t think I’d ever actually kill myself because of what it would do to the people around me who care about me, but sometimes the escape urge is strong.
im much to scared of pain, physical pain. When saturn ran over my descendant, my appendix freaking burst. I was so shocked and started crying to my very new boyfriend and thats when i new it was serious. i was so lonely in the hospital, that i wanted to die- and considering that i had almost just died i think that also did suprise me. my obssession with astrology started after that. now the only that i DO is Astrology- with the occasional deathwish popping up.
Word to everything Jilly said. (I also have chronic illness).
A long time ago, when I was going thru a different but very serious personal crisis, a “friend” actually said to my face, “I don’t know how you do it. If it was me, I would have killed myself by now.” Those kind of comments are … just not helpful to people with a death wish.
Wow! This is pretty interesting. I have Mars Scorpio semi square Pluto Libra and ironically I’m afraid of death and pain,but I used to be extremely suicidal with a high tolerance for pain. In addition,I’ve almost died several times without being suicidal. Weird huh?
What’s really funny is right now I have Transiting Mars 10th opposite Natal Pluto 4th/5th cusp -6′ (I realize most people only use 3′ orbs max for transits) plus the overall Mars transit square Transiting Pluto.
This is getting more exciting by the minute. 😀
Well… with 1st house Pluto…
Sq Sun/Mercury (Cancer)
Trine Moon (Aquarius)/Jupiter/Lilith/MC
I cant deny the fact ive learned how to deal with that energy. Just like some ppl here, ive care about who would take care of my dogs. Ive been in hell and back… right now its been 3 weeks im limbing, results of an acident years and years ago that i survived… i dont fear death, i fear being useless, dependent of others, and unfortunately im being more dependent of them each time… but all this Pluto energy also gives strengh to keep on, ive got hopes 11th house Sun/Mercury.
Hugs to all those Plutonians here
BTW Satori… im about to go through this Pluto Transit opposing Natal Sun… how do u deal with it? what should i expect? any enlightments? thx
Maybe that kinda Mars PLuto impulse is “I’m so angry with you and you aren’t doing what I want you to do, so I’m just going to punish you by killing myself” when Mars Pluto implodes like that. The Plutonic propensity for internalising, with Mars..can sometimes feel like a struggle with two magnets..one tries to stew and simmer and rage, while the other uses the energy to transform, but it neds an intense project