Mars Opposite Neptune – Where Have All The Leaders Gone?

Astrology-marsMars opposed Neptune in Pisces on October 6th. I’m getting a bit ahead of myself since I wrote about this aspect in one of next week’s newsletters. But I’ve come across this phenomena since. Specifically, I see leaders (Mars) who do not want to lead (Neptune / escape).

My husband is one of the leaders I’m writing about. He’s been hired to run a shift in a machine shop and he doesn’t want to do it. He just has no interest whatsoever in being in charge. He just wants to work, get a paycheck and that’s it.

He mentioned another man we know. He doesn’t think he cares to be in charge of more than ten or twenty people…he was put in charge of one hundred and fifty.

Now most people realize you have to do what you have to do or what in some cases, you’re called to do but what shocks me is to see a true leader want nothing to do with leading anyone, anywhere.

Have you seen any example of this?  What do you think causes it and what might it mean?


Comments

Mars Opposite Neptune – Where Have All The Leaders Gone? — 43 Comments

  1. I think it’s just been a shitty couple of years that have made a lot of people really not want to step up and challenge the status quo.

    When I see another rough transit about to come it just makes my stomach turn. Hopefully, there’s relief up ahead and things look up! And then people will want to start to lead and inspire again.

    -Pepe

  2. I think it’s about a significant shift in values. People are beginning to value their personal life and autonomy over the extraordinary responsibility that leadership entails. Not only that, the brass ring has disappeared and with it, the motivation to lead.

    I’ve noticed this trend since Pluto moved into Cap but more so with Saturn in Scorpio. It’s about the conservation of energy.

    • For example, my S.O’s former company started to downsize. Guess whose heads were on sticks first? Yep. The leaders.

      This is the trend everywhere. No longer does a CEO stay with a company for 20 years but more like 3.

      So the question of “Is it worth it?” has been answered by many former bosses with a resounding “No!”. They’d rather make their own way by way of personal businesses or consulting instead of being set up to fail by impossible boards and greedy stockholders who want gains every quarter.

  3. I think the last three people who posted have said it correctly — there’s just not much in it for us anymore. In the 70s, when I was in my 20s, I was made a supervisor of a Typing Department (yes, a relic) but as I got older, I could see that there was no reason to be in charge of anything. Many people in my age group had parents who worked all their lives for one company but at least they had something to show for it. They owned their own homes, had pensions, good insurance. They were set for life and retired with dignity. Around the 90s, the big corporations started taking away all the goodies — the pensions, the good insurance, etc., they made us pay for own retirement (401Ks) — so what’s the point? What do we get out of it? I’m just like your husband: I would rather work by myself, go home, and be done with it. There’s no reason to give yourself over to a company. They don’t care about you anymore than you care about them. Those days are gone gone gone.

  4. That is fear of responsibility. Yes, this is happening all over the place. And even when people are doing the “leadership job” we end up finding out that they have done things they should not have done. For me, this ties in to politics and how most politicians can’t lead worth a crap. Another reason Trump appeals to me. He has been good at business and he comes across as someone that would make a good leader. Makes me think of John Wayne too. LOL! He did not back down from anything or anyone. Everyone today is wishy washy. They don’t have the cajones to stand behind their words and spit in the eye of those that don’t like it. We have become a nation of wimps. So, where have the strong leaders gone to?

  5. This is my situation. I am expected to lead. I was never asked, I was told. That is a very hard spot to be in and I’m not sure I want to lead. I would say, from my perspective that a couple of things apply.

    1. No one thanks leaders anymore. It is really the scapegoat position, not a, “hey we appreciate you keeping us employed” position.

    2. The value of personal time as mentioned above resonates.

    3. Personal responsibility. As a leader I expect to hold you accountable to your job and how you do your job. It is a deal we have, you see, I do my best to pay you, support you with tools and a good team, train you. You do your best to show up for work, do your work well and take responsibility when you slack and a customer is angry or when you sit around and read a newspaper and the shipment doesn’t go out on time. But nope, that would not be the case, you don’t want to take responsibility. You feel entitled to that job. So I fire you. Sucks to be me, the leader, and everyone looks around and wonders why that person got fired. Well, entitlement combined with a lack of personal accountability would explain it but instead there are complaints about the leader. This is a generalized example – please note, not anyone specific is being pointed at here.

    In other words it is almost impossible to lead a pile of entitled people with no sense of personal responsibility or accountability either to the customer or their boss. And if your response is to just hire differently you should see the resumes and cover letters these days.

    And yes, I see this dynamic going both ways. If you don’t trust a company to keep you on why bother putting in that extra effort?

  6. I don’t blame your husband one bit, Elsa. Being a middle/line manager in today’s workforce isn’t worth the stress. Can he still get an interview with the company that called him recently? I ask only just in case he may not be treated well going forward.

    • I don’t worry about this. My husband can take care of himself in all circumstances. He just thinks people are way, way, way away from where they need to be. For example, he doesn’t feel like having to teach them that drill bits should be put where they go so they can be easily found…putting up with resistance to learning basic things.

      It’s like these college student who show up needing remedial reading and math. There are some people who just aren’t going to want to deal with that. They been too soft, too long. He sees the cost / reward of trying to elevate them to be out of whack.

      I guess I am the same in a way. If I think you aren’t open to anything anyone might tell you, then I’d not be banging on your door. But if you open it, just a sliver, I will invest. He’s beyond that point, I think.

      • My husband is really motivated by God. So if he thinks God wants it, he’ll do it. But he does not think God has him here to run a machine shop. He just needs a job while he does other things for God.

        This also makes sense to me. But I, personally, am not having an experience like this. I still think I am supposed to hold my ground on this blog and do the best I can, each and every day.

        • I’m personally really very happy (plus, non surprised – reading here for a few years, I know that you, Elsa, say what you mean) about your commitment to furthering this project, this valuable website.
          I’m another Cancer-Mars… and today, I explained to someone close to me, that I won’t be anybody’s team leader, for… kindergarteny stuff: been there, done that… no longer own the T-shirt (repurposed as a rag long ago, and since gone). So, hey, say hey, for me, anyone reading this who knows someone who thinks/experiences similar… 🙂

      • Well, as the saying goes, “Common sense ain’t common.” Your husband should definitely continue to follow his divine guidance on this one.

  7. Think of the internet mobs, and societal mobs in general. Political correctness + the internet+ polarization= I don’t want to lead. This is at least in my head. Who wants to lead when a huge group of people is going to jump down your throat? “I’ll save myself the emotional pain, quite thank you,” I can see someone thinking this these days, sadly.

  8. My husband thinks the effort it would take to try to influence people to be less stupid, just isn’t worth his time and energy. There is a point and when you get beyond it, he doesn’t think it’s worth swimming out, trying to drag your stupid, heavy ass to shore, especially when you’re kicking and screaming and calling him names. I understand this, readily. But I am the opposite – willing to go after the one sheep missing from the ninety nine.

    My husband knows what he thinks is wrong, but it’s his way. If I see a way to help, I will do it.

    • If he doesn’t have the desire and energy to fight that battle, then he doesn’t. I’m with him on that score. (Maybe it’s a Taurus thing.)

      • Yes, he has zero ambition to do something like this. He’s not trying to climb up in the company or something like that.

        It reminds me of my neighbor. He’s smart, personable and all-around competent.

        He was in management…left for another company to be in management He’s now stepped down to work for less money, more hours, less responsibility. He’s contemplating driving a truck at this point.

        Sick of dealing with the retail customer, I guess. Not that truck driving is great – it’s NOT. However, you can get a job in 30 seconds.

  9. People can get tired of being in the number one spot and all the the crap that goes with it. Also, experience teaches that there’s honor as well in not being top dog. There’s joy in it, there’s creativity and talent in it. Often you can lead much more effectively and meaningfully from a 2nd or lower position than from an out in front leadership position.

  10. i get what you’re saying in this message. The leaders, or true good leaders who have integrity, they just don’t feel like it anymore. I mean they’ll still do it, because it’s their task, but they’d rather not because of the incompetence of alot of people who cant do their task. It’s a very very difficult position and alot of responsibility. I was referring to my husband, who is in charge but he just has no drive or motivation anymore for it. Maybe if they put him in another district, or city, but right now, he has to deal when he’d rather escape. Alot of people perhaps don’t want to pull their weight at their tasks, and that might be the problem.

  11. Neptune is opposing my natal Mars right now. I have no problem leading; if anything, my *actions* are becoming more altruistic. But also, I feel less motivated to make big waves at all.

    At times my energy comes and goes, as well as my interest; it just waxes and wanes. I have so many ideas, I feel so on fire with inspiration, but my follow through has been piss poor lately. 3 months ago I would have slapped myself in the face if I had seen myself behaving this way. But now…I’m just like ‘eh’. In some ways I feel like I’m rolling over, crying out “I give, I give…you win!” to no one in particular.

    But, like I mentioned, I do feel more in touch with the other side.

  12. Elsa, back in the 80’s, my step-father and I would talk about work matters. His Sun was on my Mercury and my Sun was on his Mercury. He was Scorpio. Was – as in, he has passed. Anyway, we both talked about him taking a position as a management lead in the printing shop he was employed. He was a Journeyman Printer.

    He said there was NO WAY he would take the position due to the fact that: “Chad, 80% of the people on this planet are ignorant!!” Yep. He felt the same way as your husband, Elsa. If you pick up something, somewhere, put the damn thing back where ya got it. My step-father had every tool imaginable. The man was very organized. Tons of nuts, bolts, screws, brads, etc., etc. in metal cans and glass jars. Awesome.
    He did not consider them “stupid.” Just ignorant.

    • He also mentioned they’re stuck in their ways. This seems widespread. Narrowmindedness.

      I can understand not wanting to bang his head against the wall, but he’s a true teacher..of men. I guess I’ll just have to see where this leads. Because when he took the job a week ago, he planned to do it. Day two, he changed his mind. A week in, he’s already done the math to cone up with a precise hourly wage, he will ask for at 90 days. The lowest he can take to make it worth doing it at all, and this is as a machinist, period. Supervising isn’t even an option in his mind. They don’t know this. Keep asking him how he’s doing. Ha ha, like how does he answer that? Doing fine, I guess.

  13. I think he figures to make a little money to pay the bills but invest more time in raising the food we’ll eat. Crops, chickens, a pig, a cow…sick of busting his ass for people who don’t produce, I’d say. Government takes too much of your money.

    Fight all those years, lose all his friends, for what? He’s lived in a truck for eight years and suffered greatly. So it’s all understandable. But I am still going for 25 years here, far as I can see. That will be 2026! The difference between us is I am social. I really like you guys and that’s a fact. I like my job.

  14. I’ve got strong cardinal so am equipped to lead, and have done so successfully in the past. But the world has changed. DRASTICALLY. I’ll skip an enumeration of how and why. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that most people these days do not ~want~ to follow, and they don’t. (Some, especially the very youngest generations, don’t even know how and why they should follow, because they have not had role models in this. I was exposed to this recently, for a full year.)

    In any case, me, today, with the world as it is, I do not want to bother trying to lead people who do not want to be led. I’m like your husband, “you don’t want to put the tools back where they belong, I’ve got no time to waste with you.” Good for him that he can transfer some of his energies, skills and willpower into something productive and gratifying like growing food, etc.

    • Lately I’ve noticed that, too. I try to explain things to coworkers, or at least TRY to do what’s expected of us. Feels like I keep hitting brick walls with most of them. I have come to the conclusion that I’m wasting my breath, most of the time. None of them gives two craps about the boss’ opinion. As for the director’s. Pffft!! GTFO–she’s a talking head to them, blah blah blah…

  15. Another thought….

    The difference between the position you’re in and the one your husband is in:

    We all come here voluntarily and because we want to be here and we value what we get here, including your leadership.

    The people your husband would have to lead are there because they need a paycheck. Other commenters before me have summed up nicely what most workplaces are like today, and it’s pretty bleak. Who wants to follow under such conditions?

    Another difference is that your husband as a middle manager is sandwiched between the people above him and those below. You are a one-layer operation!

  16. When the people lead the leaders will follow. My dad and I have had the conversation about companies looking to cross train in manufacturing. He’s in die cast I’m in sewn products. He asks “Is it for upward mobility or to get one person doing three peoples jobs?” I see this happening. Dad says his first boss always said”I’m training you for your next job.” Leave them better then you found them. For we can do small deeds with great Love- Mother Teresa. We may never know how we impact a stranger. My dad’s my fav business coach because he’s also a deacon. We think a like that way.My hubby prefers me to lead. Sometimes I wish he would lead because then I can pass on the responsibility of results to him. I know this about myself. It’s not pretty. I am learning to own my crap and lead from my Heart.

  17. I think that sometimes leaders, or people who always find themselves in leadership positions, just get tired of always leading; including people who are inborn leaders.

    I’m talking about leadership and not management. But, leaders often find themselves in the position of managing people within the group that have issues that impact the group as a whole. Say for instance, there might be a slacker in the group, or a lone-wolf, or someone who just sees a person in a leadership position and decides it’s their purpose in life to challenge leaders every step of the way.

    I do think leadership is an inborn trait for some people and for whatever reason (and there could be as many reasons as there are natural-born leaders) they just get tired of always “getting to be” the leader.

    Personally, I am great at organizing (it’s just something I do well, and in fact, it serves me well at the work I do—library and archives) but there are times in my personal life where I don’t want to be the one always taking the role of organizer. I get tired of organizing my home so that all the adults living here can locate what they need. To be honest, I get tired of deciding where my husband and I are going to go for date night and what we are going to do there. It’s like everyone in my life looks to me to create an agenda or a “list of things to do” for them.

    Granted in the examples of me being tired in my private life are examples where I’m not getting paid but sometimes I think people just want to take a break, or maybe they are tired of always having to take the same role in a situation, and want to try something different. Or maybe they just need a break.

  18. From my personal experience with my small company, it has been disappointing to find that people are just so lazy and they have been “dumbed down” to where it is frustrating and discouraging. You spend time training someone a new skill and come to realize they really don’t care or don’t understand the basics of work ethic. This has been the hardest part for me.

  19. As a former leader (who hates leading) I find leading to be incredibly draining. I’m good at it (apparently) but it’s too hard on my mental health.

  20. I’d never want to lead. I honestly think I’d turn into a power mongering asshole if I had even a tiny taste of power. And leaders these days seem even more stressed than I am. I’ve had several supervisors tell me that “the big pennies” they earn are just not worth it.

    • This comment made me smile, Jennifer.
      My sister calls them “little pennies.”
      She feels the same way about the worth of it all.
      The best leaders are those whom have the ability to lead themselves. No small task.

      • Sorry. Perhaps I should clarify. The ability to lead ones-self through honest and fair ethic in conjunction with right and true vision of the future for all involved.

  21. I too have a husband who is a natural leader who wants nothing to do with it at work. He is a telecommunications engineer and though he has worked in the telecommunications industry for 30+ years and was in management at one time. I can understand why he is not interested at this time. It has to do with the layoffs and the ever constant changes you have no say in whatsoever. The office politics which is at every job adds undue stress and though they don’t pay him what he is worth the stress level is high enough with out any additional stress of being management added. It is like he told me the other day they have cut down the work force to about 25% of what it was but yet the work load is still at same level it was before the work force reduction, so things are being overlooked and not completed due to lack of time in which to do them.

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