LIBRA – Death By Codependency

Yes, Libra, you’re nice.
Now learn to say no!

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LIBRA – Death By Codependency — 30 Comments

  1. I love that at the end you added “if anyone else needs permission” because that’s the first thing that came to my mind at the beginning of the clip. So another nice person saying “You can still be a nice person and say no” shifts the conditioning. In fact if you cant say no, you wont be able to be nice to the people you do care for, cuz you’ll be so stressed! I’m libra rising. Beyond Libra, most little girls are programmed to be nice and some were hammered for daring saying no, maybe your friend was one of them. I sure was and at times even my Aries Mars has been trumped by this.

  2. Death by co-dependency LOL!!! God, that is so true. I was talking to someone today about how it took me till I was about 44 (yes 44, are you listening Toni?!)to start saying no, and mean it. Just in time, by the sound of it.

  3. elsa you are red hot as of late! prob always are- you are pulling awsome ideas left and right! thank-you! on the colesseum working to attract/ your just flat out cutting honesty is inspirational and now yet another larger trend focus… so how does one say no when so many times the ‘contract’ is unspoken, and to say no would be to what? be a bitch and in front of everyone. do you lie to get out of doing somthing for somebody demanding? avoidence can only get you so far in todays day and age…cell phone/ text message…so how does one say no and not be painted as a bitch if the person is someone you must deal with?

  4. aml – as long as you are afraid of being “painted as a bitch”, they’ve got you but here’s the newsflash:

    You are painted as a bitch anyway by this type.

    Yep, if you are in a position to do X.Y,Z that they are not, it’s because you are a bitch, they are just not going to say this to you or your face because they are trying to get to do their stuff for them.

    But they do think it and this helps them avoid thinking about all the things you did to be in the position you and in and all the things they didn’t do.

    See Cultivating my image…

  5. Also, I told my friend of a gal i knew once and liked by the way. I was in group therapy with her, she was a lesbian and definitely knew women.

    She said she though co-dependent were fools and “if they’re that stupid they deserve to be taken advantage of. I get codependents to do everything for me – why not?”

  6. The woman “not particularly deserving of help”, also does nothing to help herself. I should have added this. So my friend had this gal taking care of her problem / her burden AND seeking the help, LOL.

  7. Short and sweet. Straight to the bottom line.
    YAY..Elsa..say it like it is!! 🙂
    There are so many Libra’s in my life that I need to show this to. They don’t hear me…maybe they’ll hear you.

  8. aml, I used to worry about exactly that until I realised the same thing Elsa is saying. Those people are going to bitch anyway and you just have to decide not to be affected by them. Since I started saying no for real, those people have fallen away and I am attracting respect from a whole other type of person.

  9. yes, your right. but having cap at almost every corner, the rep is something built over time and it is something important (at least to me, genuinly) to appear to be, who i really am- and when someone wants to play kickball under the table, i will not play a role for them, i don’t answer her calls anymore but when i am forced to see her in group situation, there is always a favor…and if i can i do it, if i can’t i say i don’t have time. but i have noticed that it is extensive with this sag (her sun conj my venus)and i donot say no flat out–as i know it is an intentional power play… does that make me phoney? maybe, but i am trying to come up with something to yes, basically say a definative no- not using no, and thus avoid all out war (which is what she is looking for) and yes protect myself…. i guess i was just trying to say, sometimes no is not so easy.

  10. If it were me, I would just keep making polite excuses until she goes and feeds elsewhere. Its uncomfortable, but it works eventually.

  11. I have had this happen to me. My boundary turned out to be money. People expected me to work for free even though I wasn’t making money to pay rent. Then when I mentioned my rent situation I got no response back. Had to move. Boy were they sad to see me go for their own motives. Shows me how much I was being too “nice”. So I ditched them. One situation though is still lingering. Again it was volunteer based – I let them still talk me into working on it long distance. I told them that I wanted to leave it in a certain state for them to take the work over – and it is where I’m comfortable leaving it. After all they are getting paid to work and know how to do it 10 times faster than myself. I would think that they would understand this but I let myself feel bad and then keep it going. They have put off finishing it until the spring. Gah. Bet it will revive when uranus enters aries and then i’ll really be saying no. It’s not win-win and with pluto in cap I’ve been defining my relationships around win-win scenerios. I wanted work to be the reason to not finish it but alas that isn’t true.. I just feel it’s not my work to finish and feel put-upon. I can’t lie and tell them i’m working because they are work contacts.

    Thanks for this heads-up Elsa. I’d rather figure out a way to deal with this firmly than to have it explode in my face come spring.

  12. Elsa is so right on point about all of this. If the person asking the favor sees you as a bitch if you decline to help out….you are not going to be able to do anything to change their minds about that. That is the first sign that you are dealing with someone who just wants to suck off of mama’s teat and doesn’t give a mouse’s burp about you. I have learned and still am learning about this….and I am 48….Libra Moon…..sure wish I had a Scorpio moon…they can see this a mile away…from my observations…

  13. One of the things that stymies people is the thought that you need to have a REASON to say no, beyond just not wanting to.

    Not wanting to isn’t a very good reason with people you’re close to, who presumably treat you well and have helped you in the past. But for strangers or coworkers, I think it’s perfectly fine. You don’t have to say it’s because you don’t want to, you can just say “I don’t need a reason” (because if they’re asking you WHY after you say NO, then that is a red flag anyway!)

    I tested this the other day. I was at the self car wash, and you need a lot of quarters for that. I went across the street and got smaller bills to use the change machine. I didn’t ask anyone else for help, I just handled my own business. Half an hour later, I’m drying my car, and a young man comes up and asks me to give him two quarters. I guess he was short. Not a huge deal, but on the other hand, an adult should be able to wash his/her car without assistance unless there is some physical reason. I told him sorry, but no, and you should have seen the look of shock on his face. Well, I’m not your mommy, dude! (Sun and other planets in Cancer in 12th/1st)

    I am prone to not being able to say no RIGHT AWAY, it takes time. That’s a Cancer thing. I’ve learned to say I’ll think about it, etc. and then say no if I don’t want to.

  14. Oh, I get it. Though usually I’m too slippery to get stuck doing other people’s work I have experience with a differrent sort of this. I tend to want the good opinion of certain religious bully types. Which is ridiculous because I don’t even know most of them. I want them to tell me I’m a good person, which will never happen.

    Hopefully I will learn to accept this before the saturn-pluto square forces the issue. Interesting times, in any case.

  15. I used to have a problem saying no when it came to being a mediator in other people’s relationships. The pattern started very young when I was a go-between of sorts between my mum and grandmother.

    During my SR I found myself in a foreign country saying ‘yes’ to a complete stranger who was in an abusive relationship with her partner (she was en route to another foreign country to escape him and he had followed her). I finally had to say ‘no’ when she asked me to go back to her hotel to retrieve her passport–therefore putting myself at physical risk.

    And…I was actually going to do it until my uber-Capricorn SO forbade me–yes, he forbade me!–to go back to help her. The abusive man came and found us and scared the living shit out of both my partner and I. I always wondered what happened to those people. Probably they are still twisted up in each other in some way:(

    That was a defining moment in my life. I realized I was wasting precious energy I could be spending on my own existing relationships on trying to help people see the importance in valuing themselves.

  16. This has been a huge issue for me .I used to think I was unable to keep more than one friend at a time, and it took me quite some time figuring out that it was because I allowed myself to be used in such a degree that I became physically exausted, and that was why I had to limit my friends.Really sad in retrospect. The worst thing I ever have done out of niceness is marry a friend of a so of a friend, because he needed a greencard.No money for it and I have had so many setbacks and unfortunate obsticles because of it …could not get a scholarship because of it..my tax increased..and now 3 years after I am finally getting my divorce.In my country there is no such thing as getting it annuled, but I separated just 2 months after we married so he did not get the greencard, and that was fine by me because he was not such a good person.
    I have learned to say no now, and not let people drain me…there should be a red flag when u worry more about another healthy adult then they worry about themselves

  17. My dilema has been, although not put to the acid test for at least a few years now…when you are in the throes of co-dependency, and auto pilot kicks in and says just drop everything and go because “this feels good, this person makes me feel alive and good… and I am isolated and I need this friend, this hit…”, yet somewhere off in the distance, I know I am sabotaging my work schedule, my time and my boundaries and this is only a true friend when they are in need at the moment, and that they have no qualms about moving on when their “true” needs are met.

    This was a “soulmate”, a teacher. They come in different disguises.

    I’m done with it. I’m thinking 10 X (squares)(and I have Libra Rising, Square Cap Sun)(uh oh) is a charm!!

  18. Oh my goodness, if there is anything I’m thankful for, it’s Saturn in Libra!

    I have Libra Rising and boy, before this transit occurred, I was in big trouble! I really could not say no. I’ve learned too now, but it’s all completely and utterly new to me.

    I can relate to what Elsa was saying about people “tapping” into you. I use oracle cards and have been getting the card “Shield yourself” and I can feel intuitively other people trying to yank and tap into my energy. I’ve had dreams about being near people and feeling them pull at my auric field.

    Anyway, it can be hard to have Libra for this reason but I’m very happy about Saturn Libra because it’s nice to have the universe supporting me in creating these boundaries!

  19. I can honestly say my Libra moon tendencies were affected by this Sesame Street song – somewhere around age 5. I’ll never forget it…. Sang this for weeks, much to my parents dismay. It sends a mixed message…”We’d be worse off without it”, but also “No’s no fun.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyupP2LxbZI

    If only there were a song about not feeling bad for saying no…

  20. It is a skill! And, I think it’s great that your friend went to a therapist because Libra people need to be taught how to assert themselves. It isn’t something innate to everyone.

    Saturn in Libra has been “easier” for me personally in a sense because I am much more familiar with the energy than I was with Virgo, but it’s definitely been effective. Like a laxative for relationships. The shit is leaving, and fast.

    I have also been using FES’s flower essences Black Cohosh and Centaury which I find have been really helpful for me in learning the spiritual lessons behind asserting myself. I would recommend them to anyone who can’t afford therapy at this time but need some sort of support in strengthening themselves.

  21. I have no problems saying no. But I do sometimes wonder if I’m like the first person in this story — the one who doesn’t deserve help because they’re a leech. Hm.

  22. God, how I love this blog! Y’all had great comments and Denamarie made me laugh out loud in recognition (and loved your descriptive language). I’m 47 and still getting this lesson, but it does become easier. I am gravitating more and more immediately to the reaction of “do I really want to?” when someone makes a request. I take a lot longer now to evaluate why I say yes or no–my side, their side, etc. so I don’t fall into the knee jerk response of an immediate yes. And if I do say yes, I try to be as clear and clean on my motivations for doing so. As for Libras, my best friend, a guy, is one and as an Aries, I’m always telling him, dude, you’re just doing this to be NICE, and then you’re running around like crazy doing others stuff and you wonder why you’re tired, and then he calls me to complain. And I again tell him, Dude, you’re too nice and we’re off on the same cycle. I do so hope that Saturn on top of his sun (which won’t happen until a bit later–he’s born in mid-Oct) will help with this–that he’ll have to start ditching some of this niceness b/c he simply won’t have time/energy and that once he establishes that pattern, he’ll be better off. I love Libras, but I do wonder sometimes about the whole nice thing (but I’m an Aries with a Scorpio moon, so… 😉

  23. Great post Elsa!
    My husband has a stellium in libra with mars and sun and juno and pluto. all in 7. He seems almost physically incapable of being the bad guy sometimes.
    I’m quite the opposite, almost to the opposite extreme, which has to do with my Aq Asc and Capricorn moon no doubt, and I really don’t give a toss one way or the other. I am especially aware of being manipulated and I get extremely angry when I see someone even starting to begin to play me.

    My tendency is to protectively fend off the other in my husband’s (or anyone else’s) interests because I KNOW these types are just gonna take on the emotional or material or physical burden. It’s so hard for me to back off! SO HARD! LOL.

    Like you say, people hafta learn to say no and all my well meaning bodyguarding isn’t helping anyone.

    Great insights!

  24. Elsa:) Perfect message for the New Year! Libra rising, neptune in the 1st here and I have gone to therapy for this. And yes, certain people now call me a bitch but I’m having a hard enough time carrying my own load so no I’m not taking on extra burdens.

    These are the same people who are never there when I need help.

  25. I’ve got the party goin on in Libra It’s a hard task to learn to say “no” and it actually took a bout with self-exhaustion and self-destructio before I started giving myself permission to say no. Luckily..for me..I grew up in a family of co-dependents so I could see the effects of the behavior and decided I didn’t want anything to do with it.
    Don’t get me wrong, its still hard to say no..but I do say it and then deal with my own guilt (cuz even tho you can do it doesnt mean you dont second guess yourself later) about it in various ways.

  26. i laughed when i listened to this again. needed to hear it. all this saturn in libra stuff feels very personal to me, my chart being what it is.

    for me, i think i’m more trying to convince myself i’m nice than anybody else. i question that when i get the urge to recoil so i “prove” it by being accommodating instead. as it reaches it’s natural progression and i end up cutting it off, i feel lousy and the energy leech moves on to their next target.

  27. I love the title of this… “Death by Co-dependency” this is me completely. I do everything I can to accommodate some people in my life- husband, boss, mother, etc.. I just recently read a book titled, “Soaring Above Co-Addiction” by Lisa Espich. I really related with this book because the author is not writing as a professional giving advice. Instead, she writes from the viewpoint of a wife and mother who struggled to save her family from addiction, and eventually found the right source of help. I am finding that it is ok to say not, and in fact it is a little bit satisfying to watch their reactions when I actually tell them “NO”- LOL! Here is the link for anyone interested in checking out this book.

    http://www.soaringabovecoaddiction.com/

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