Jupiter will turn retrograde back into Pisces this month, to join Neptune in the sign. This got me thinking about “redemption”.
I learned of the connection between Neptune and redemption from Liz Greene’s book, written in the 90’s, “The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption“. The book is long and meandering but without it, I’m not sure I would have ever comprehended “astrological Neptune”.
With Venus square Neptune in my natal chart, I’m well acquainted with “yearning” in every context, including aspiring to redeem myself.
Redeem myself for what?
For everything, of course. There are no lines in this world!
I’m wondering if these feelings are universal. It seems the should be and they would be. But as our culture becomes more myopic, self-centered and psychopathic by the day, do people have these feelings anymore?
It might be the case, people never felt this way and I’m a weirdo.
Do you see value in seeking redemption? That’s it. That’s my question.
I absolutely see the value of redemption! I still come over in a cold sweat when I recall times when I have slighted somebody – Saturn square Neptune, so go out of my way to give everyone a chance and treat them as I would like to be treated. Trouble is, there’s too many people nowadays that really don’t care how their actions impact upon others and don’t fear any comeback. Is the notion of Karma old news?
“Is the notion of Karma old news?”
Exactly! I was talking to a friend about this over the weekend. You never hear of “karma” any more or any belief that was goes around comes around. There is sin, no comeuppance, no one to answer to…
I certainly hear of karma! But America has a really violent history that has made some people very violent. America has it’s own karma! Nothing happens in a vacuum. People that have a history of violence are going to become violent.
As an African-American I am appalled that most people in America don’t even know about slavery and the atrocities that happened. Even after slavery there was Jim Crow. After that the new Jim Crow of prison, that perpetuated more psychologically damaged people. And I am really surprised that a lot of astrologers and witches are very racist. All of of come from the universe that why the planets affect us so much.
Lastly, Americans need to learn the history of this country. Slavery has effected everything in American life. Most people in America don’t even realize that blacks have been here since the beginning of America! They want to call us POC (people of color). Blacks have nothing in common with other so-called minority groups. We have been here way before most immigrant groups…we are not immigrants, we did not have a choice! Being an astrology I know that the universe has all power. America’s Pluto return has revealed a lot of things about America. Pluto’s transit through Aquarius is going to bring a bigger change. Thanks for indulging my rant!
Consider yourself heard Ursa L. When I was at a healing centre, I read a book which was left there and was shocked to the core. It was called The Slave Chronicles. Unspeakable cruelty. We have a bad track record here in Australia too. An Indigenous Elder said that those whites who were cruel to the first nation people are reincarnating among them.
All the best
I think what’s important is to live daily with love and kindness so that redemption is not a huge thing to worry about. There is freedom in acting with integrity, right actions, honesty, compassion and love. As far as past actions we can learn from them and correct our course.
I don’t think Karma deals with punishment only correction or consequences. But also the law has taken over the once more pervasive thoughts of consciousness that Society had towards one another. That more than anything looks to be dying more everyday. There are still good people of course but on the whole, if you watch the news, you’d never know it half the time.
You can’t go by the news, they only want to show the bad. It sells more!
I am on a similar wavelength as you. Concept of Karma: every action carries the seed of a response/reaction. So if you choose to think and act in a kind way, the universe will respond in an identical way.
It is more difficult to find folks who care and who are willing to look out for their neighbors, coworkers & kidt society in general.
I agree in a way. But the universe works in a big way. Countries have charts also. They also must deal with collective karma. Many people don’t really believe that the universe is in charge.
Many astrologers talk about the Pluto return for America. Some get that countries have to deal with karma. There is such a thing as collective karma. Anyway the universe is wise and it’s great to be kind. Mankind still has to face their own collective karma. The age of Pisces with all the religious dogma is fading. The age of Aquarius is already changing society’s views about organized religion. We live in very interesting times…I’m so glad I trust the universe!
Just thinking the other day – wrote text to my daughter who had some struggles with ‘bully’ types in the workplace ; said you won’t change them, that’s how they ‘do’ life – it’s their Karma. I then realised how little we refer to Karma in today’s times. Is it because we rarely see it? eg Bullies get the promotion, influencers get recognition, we are now hearing how much abuse has gone on in the world – the abused struggle all their lives – the abusers go on. . We hear of victims being re-victimised, you get the idea. Spiritual teachings in today’s times tell us that, in a past life we may have been the abuser, the bully ect. Karmic debts and so on. I have a long range view of this as truth, but in the flesh and blood world it is little comfort, sometimes we just want to have good whinge, to SEE the ‘bad guys’ loose , to have our struggles validated, to fight back instead of continually fortifying our boundaries, to ‘take the high road’. We have little faith in the justice system. Karma just doesn’t compute without a great deal of faith and trust in the bigger picture. I have such gratitude for those in our world who are kind and decent, and for those who teach us to keep moving forward with faith. Back to redemption – I have Jupiter conjunct Neptune in Scorpio conjunct NN, in 7th – can’t get my head around the ‘redemption’ thing. Humans can forgive if they choose, but ‘redeem’? Not our job.
Wow,there’s so much here, Jac,I had to read it 3 times. Thx for thought provoking piece. Your natal 7H is powerful! I also struggle with a clear definition of “redemption” and agree…”not our job.”
Thank you Witchy1, I did wonder if it read as if I had missed the point- the subject I believe was regarding spiritual redemption, which is a very ‘age of Pisces’ thing, and so very personal. Reading some of the comments- I didn’t know how prevalent this concept is;- that decent people can be so weighted by the idea that they are ‘miserable sinners’ and constantly seek redemption. It illustrates the enormous breadth of our personal sense of self in the world, from those who crucify themselves over their perceived transgressions, to those who transgress against others with utter disregard for their actions. The writing is on the wall – balance in all things.
12th house Neptune sextile Sun/Venus/Mars values and yearns for redemption from sin.
I have seen Karma play out again and again, including myself getting hit with it. We all screw up and it is up to US to try to get redemption for what we have done wrong. It is my firm belief that everything you do will come around to you at some point and you have to be ready to face your consequences by asking for forgiveness, after you forgive those that anger you.
Well strangely enough ive learned of bad people get theirs in the end. My two ex husbands were really bad men and one died homeless and alone and on the streets no one mourning him except his aging mother and now she passed right after his death. She was the only one who visited him in prison all those decades. The 2nd one was a violent man and i suspect has severe ptsd. He died violently. We had an aunt in law who swindled and stole and embezzled. She could not go see her 2 grown children for years for fear of getting caught by feds. She died alone crying alot after hearing her son died of accident and could not bury him or see his funeral. Another distant relative used to ask for money to borrow from everyone and when she got a job as caretaker to a millionaire old woman who left her all her millions the distant relative blocked all numbers from those she owed hundreds and thousands. Then she died wandering old aged on the streets after losing her millions by being swindled from a man she thought she could have an affair with. He was married and she never had anyone and was always alone. She was found always wandering the streets in her nightgown. She died like that. Its really very sad. I had karma come to me in a dream. I was crying because st. Peter at the gate said he will block me from coming in if i dont shape up and think responsibly and about others. I was a teenager at the time feeling lost and alone after bad marriages and abuse and felt me me why me and dont give a shit and get high. God didnt want me to get high and forget the world. Wake the hell up because those gates will open after we finish our job here give the people we love forgiveness and help and come home.
Wow I’m so sorry 🙁
Venus 12H square Neptune 9H. Yearn for redemption? Yes. But I tend to see it as a philosophical quest, not spiritual alone. It’s easy to become lost in this square, it creates so many unnecessary entanglements out of misunderstandings or delusion. On other people’s part or on our own.
I think Nietzsche killed God but the internet killed philosophy.
How can people fathom concepts like redemption when they have no knowledge of the tools (philosophy) nor any interest in making themselves accountable?
It can be argued that scripture is a bunch of fables. But it amazes me when God calls on Adam knowing Adam hid because he knew he should’ve not eaten the fruit. (the lyrics to that song John the Revelator comes to mind). People KNOW (when) they should be seeking redemption… they just don’t care. They lie to themselves, but they just seek company with other souls that are equally rotting. Sad, but true.
I think what you wrote the other day is gracious and wise. If a person be rotting, let them rotting. You may hold space for them, or not, but this only reflects on you not them… It’s their journey (ultimately, decision) to come out the other way or stay in the cave…
“You know God walked down in the cool of the day
Called Adam by his name
But he refused to answer
Because he’s naked and ashamed”
I have to add that I firmly believe the rejection of the existence of God, and/or the rejction of god, are both the consequences of the firm denial that the devil is real, which in itself is a permission to commit all sorts of sins or atrocities without the fear of being held accountable. Sure, we created law and courts and all. But human court and law is men judging other men. Corruptible flawed man. The ones that judge as much as those who “sin” in their eyes.
Just food for thought.
Fumiga, I have wondered why the wheels turn so slowly, and with such difficulty regarding sex crimes towards women, why vile pornography including child pornography, is still out there – have to wonder – do the ‘powers that be’, condone it and enjoy it themselves?
Jac, I have to say yes. They enjoy it themselves. If child trafficking and child pornigraphy wasnt a thing of the powerful people (principalities in high places, Ephesians 6:12) there would be none of that because there is enough good people going by the laws of men to try and catch them for a long time. Their lack of success isnt a matter of lack of will to, but of powerlessness against those said powerful that have corrupted the system for a very long time. I could mention names and scandals, of recent decades or even just months, but i dont want to put a target on Elsa’s blog. Those I cannot name control the internet censors, but im guessing you might know some of those names too…
I have SN, Pluto and Saturn in 7H Scorpio, I wonder which degrees you have those planets…? Just curious 🙂
(I meant the degrees of your jup/nept and especially NN, that you mentioned in another comment.)
Fumiga, Neptune 0, Jupiter 4, NN 6. Neptune in 7th is a pain- get a lot of projections. I wonder how things are for you? Those are heavy duty 7th house planets, plus the south node- where a Taurus NN would seek peace. Best wishes, Fumiga
i too have Sun/Venus Square Neptune. Full disclosure: I am afflicted by a scalp condition which i pick at relentlessly. Just this week i was struck by the strong thought: what if i generate the scalp condition psychologically so as to have a constantly renewing affliction to punish me for ….for what? I know i did SOMETHING at some point, because obviously i am meant to suffer for the sin of it. Yet my conscience is clear. I sleep like a babe. This is guilt/shame for existing. I’d like to let it go, i say. But my ego is apparently very attached to the idea that I am afflicted. 🤷♂️🤣🥴
Absolutely; value in seeking redemption, Especially as a result of yearning.
12th house Libra Neptune tight conjunct Scorpio asc/ the anchor of a Tsquare with 10th house Uranus vs 4th house Moon, and Zip in the 7th.
Longing and yearning are a way of life. So is spinning my wheels.
The only way out is Through- via Christ Redemption in the center.
I have a strong Neptune signature. Redemption is a huge theme in my life. I’m always trying to improve—to dissolve impurities—in order to get back to my soul essence. I do have a strong urge to atone for my “sins”. I believe in cause and effect for sure.
Ninth house Neptune trine Venus in fourth here. A WWII baby from the Uranus conjunct Saturn in Gemini generation. I seem to instinctively seek redemption without beating myself up about the pits I’ve fallen into during my life. No religion, my human instincts led me to a spiritual path at 23. Born with a ‘knowing’ about reincarnation. We bring with us our destiny. This world has its destiny too. After grumbling about us being “Lemmings poised over a sea full of plastic,” I had an inner locution ” It’s Sodom and Gommorah…if you want to help, keep your head above the sewerage.” For me this means avoiding the news and conspiracies however true they may be. Love this site! XX
I don’t feel any need for redemption but I think this is something I can only say post intensive therapy. I have a Pisces Moon, Jupiter and descendant. These are just some elements of my chart where boundaries are an issue. Lack of a development of boundaries, and by this I mean having a sense of where you stop and an other person begins, is a lifes work. We all start out as babies without any boundaries, any sense of definition, we are in symbiosis with the environment and the people who raise us. We need to slowly separate and define ourselves. Often this is not possible, not encouraged, dependency is rife. Even if you physically separate, there are parts of your mind and identity that are still fused with others from your beginnings. The reason I’m going on about boundaries is because it pertains to guilt. Guilt thrives when there is no true separation. And guilt can exist powerfully in the unconscious, driving our actions. If there is no separation, then how do you know what you are responsible for and what you took on from others. It’s a guilt soup. If you clear the fog through self examination, the notion of redemption evaporates.
Great post / particularly “guilt soup” reference – cup or bowl?
Excellent thoughts to contemplate upon.
Normally when Neptune goes retrograde it feels like the tide is drawing right back, and you get to see things littered on the beach that you couldn’t grasp before. Then when he turns direct a great wave comes in and washes everything away. I think it’s interesting that Jupiter will be in Pisces very near to Neptune this year and also recently turned direct before Neptune turns. I’m thinking that the incoming tide washing things away will be even bigger, a tidal wave or even tsunami? Better get the swimsuit and surf board ready!