From the comments Voice Of Mars (With A Scorpio Moon) On Women, I wrote:
“He means the women deliver more pain then they realize… the men keep a straight / poker face.”
“…is the straight poker face a ‘male’ thing or a ‘scorpio moon’ thing?”
dukkha, it’s moon for sure, but I think this may apply to men in general in large part. You just don’t see men crying (overtly) about a women who is going or gone. My husband has definitely seen his share of men broken up over women. When I hear these stories I get the distinct idea the women have no idea they have delivered such a punch.
In general, women and they don’t seem to fathom how much they impact men. When a relationship ends they become very focused on their experience and their feelings. They take the victim position almost across the board. They minimize (if not completely obliterate) the fact the man has suffered a loss along with any responsibility they may have had in the failure of the relationship.
I think this is a major mistake on the part of women because it creates a feeling over time that all men are horrible bastards which I think is completely erroneous. Women just don’t seem to comprehend their own potency to the detriment of all but especially themselves.
Men probably do something similar but by and large they are quiet about it plus I don’t talk to near as many men so I wouldn’t know. But if there is one thing I have learned from the soldier its’ this:
Most men really do want to get a long with women as oppose to screw, blue, tattoo them. Few women understand this.
I believe this to be true. I consider myself a humanist and it’s never crossed my mind that just because someone has a dick they are not capable of having a rich emotional life.
I read the other thread with interest, and found it really humourous. Because I find men confounding as well a lot of the time.
I think for me it’s been to my benefit to admit that and I’m sure other people feel the same way.
I’m not sure why but I’ve always had male friends as close friends and have had many male friends confide in me the pain of a broken heart so there you go.
But I think that as humans we fill different roles in each others’ lives…not every person can fill every role. I’m sure some of my male friends come to me for a beer and to shoot the shit ONLY and that is a way to make them feel better, as well.
Now as for my SO, the person I’m sharing my life with, he confounds me on a daily basis but I chalk that up to his Cap Sun/Scorpio Moon/Gemini ASC oddballness with a Mars/Mercury conjunction in Sagittarius that mixes with my 12th House Neptune.
I’m always going to find him a little weird I think, but he thinks I’m a total weirdo so we keep each other amused.
dukkha – I imagine it’s the type of thing that anyone uncomfortable with vulnerable feelings would do.
But I bet there is a gender bias, and social training eventually becomes so ingrained it’s a knee-jerk response. The boy that’s taught to hide pain eventually does this automatically, and has a hard time changing the pattern later on when he wants to. He may deeply want to get along but just can’t get his gut reactions to match his intentions.
I think a lot of women believe a man is capable of being on his own, moreso than a woman. And society gives that impression as well. On top of that, a lot of women feel validated by having a long term relationship. In fact, society thinks women NEED a relationship more than a man needs one. Men can be validated that way, but also by being strong and independent, successful or just by having lots of sex. (Generalizations, I know) Anyway, if a woman loses the relationship, she might be considered vulnerable, a victim. A man may be considered free. Perhaps that’s the thinking that leads to women not knowing how badly men feel after losing a relationship.
This is really important to remember. The person I’m with has a magnificent poker face (Scorpio rising) and I recently got an unusual glimpse of how much I was affecting him (and have been all along). I don’t support people casting themselves as victims, however, I think an alternative source for the misunderstanding is that woman are trained to rely heavily on body language. We’re socialized not to cop to our real feelings, especially when they’re negative, so we operate on the basis that we should read people’s faces/bodies to understand what they *really* mean (on the assumption that they’re doing the same thing). So if you’re breaking up with a man and you’re only reading his face to understand the impact on him, a woman (thinking like a woman) is going to totally miss what really happened.
i saw a lot of this working in detox. there were lots of men there, and lots of broken relationships, not surprisingly. and it really hit me in the face how hard it hit these guys.
i also have seen a few relationships dissentegrate while being friends with the guy during it, and it was clear they feel every bit as much pain as the woman does, probably with far fewer outlets for support. My husband says that guys often will say, “Gee, that really sucks,” to their friends and then try to distract them in such circumstances.
thanks Elsa for making my question an unexpected post 😛
i’ve never been in a relationship, but i’ve witnessed a lot of heartbroken women, & not as many (hetero?) men unless we’re talking about gay men, then lots ;p – oddly enough, the one man who was pretty open about his heartache with me was my scorp moon/double virgo lover/friend yet he seems to put on a great poker face when it comes to how he feels about me… but that’s another topic altogether, i guess.
AnaBanana – i agree with you, plus that boy in your post sounds a lot like me – except i’m a girl 😛
i have one of the best poker faces (i’ve been told by many), so i wonder how this would play out astrologically?
within my own birth chart, would loads of aquarius be responsible for this? maybe a busy 8th house? cancer rising?
also, how would one read beyond the poker faces if they won’t spit out how they truly feel?
I learned this phenomenon the hard way.
I do feel like men do not have enough of a support system. Perhaps it’s why they often run into the arms of another woman…we are good at listening, supporting, encouraging….people outside of ourselves/personal circle, of course. It’s easy to sympathize with a man who is not our own.
I think we do forget how powerful we are, how hurtful we can be. I’m guilty of this. I know when I’ve had a sharp tongue (and I mean shaaaarp) it was just my ego feeling challenged or ignored (Leo sun). I would get a really poker-faced, mean, hurtful demeanor (Scorpio ASC), I would criticize (Virgo venus), and this was my stupid way of dealing with my insecurites and depression (Cancer mars). I kept trying to get a rise out of my significant other (trying to see if he even cared), and he pretty much held it all in until it was too late for us. I’m so glad those days are over, and I learned the hard way just how hurtful we can be, and how much we don’t even have a clue about it.
I’ve got a damned good poker face and I’m a woman. It can’t be just a gender thing, although I’ll admit there is a disparity.
The absolute worst thing in my world is letting slip an emotion that the other person is not worthy of receiving — and at the end of a relationship, any relationship, the other person deserves none of my energy. I’ll go to my support system (maybe), but fuck them AND the horse they rode in on. *lol*
I attribute this to Mars-Venus-Pluto conjunction trined chart ruler Moon in Aquarius/8th.