“I like the guy and I respect him,” the soldier said. “And he ought to be glad of it because I like and respect almost no one.”
“But he doesn’t seem to realize what a loyal bastard he’s got on his team.”
“No, I’m sure he doesn’t. He’s probably never met anyone loyal in his life and has no idea what it is.”
I actually believe that last statement. Loyalty is not only undervalued, it is damned near unheard of.
Are you loyal to anyone? Is anyone loyal to you?
Yes I am. I am a loyal friend, and I have at least one friend who is loyal to me.We were taking about this today. Respect and Trust that is the bottom line.
Am I loyal? Yes.
Is anyone loyal to me? I sure as hell hope so, and trust that the answer is yes (because I’m loyal to that person! lol)
I see people sell others in so many ways and so cheaply, it’s disgusting. People sell me on a daily basis however I am fortunate to have a loyal inner circle, almost exclusively Taurus and Scorpio types. I have other friends but have no idea if they will be here next week or next month… my assumption is they won’t.
Most people just don’t keep their friends for life but those of us who do, do.
Yeah that’s actually one of my blind spots – can’t discern good when it would be my best interest to ratchet it down a notch or 2.
I have Saturn in Taurus in the 8th. I’m not blindly loyal to anything or anyone, but even if I think somebody’s a punk, if he’s managed to earn my loyalty, HE’S GOT IT. Whether he wants it or not. Mother and brothers fall under this category. Especially my brothers, those dumbasses. 🙂
I think for me, on a day to day basis, it’s not so much an issue of loyalty but honor. I will always try to be consistent and honorable. True loyalty from me is probably rarer. That indicates a relationship of a certain depth, and I don’t have millions of those.
Loyal *to* me? I don’t know. I’ve never put anyone in the position to really have to exercise it. Lack of trust! Saturn squares my Moon! 🙂
I’d like to say I keep my friends for life, but I don’t. I was told once that I was a transpersonal agent, and though it sounds lonely, it’s kinda true. I float in, I float out.
i have saturn in the 7th. when i’m in, i’m in and i mean it. i don’t take the connections lightly or quickly, but if i make them, i do my best to keep them forevermore.
this has not always worked to my advantage. but i have my integrity nonetheless and that’s worth more to me that sometimes getting burned on a commitment to someone.
and i have been blessed with a wonderful inner circle. very small, but damn are they worth their weight in gold.
of course, even as i wrote this, i realize there is not a line forming of people saying they have no loyalty whatsoever and engender none…but i still mean it.
I have discovered through heartache, that loyalty without some sense of personal boundaries isn’t really loyalty. It’s just hanging on, and there’s a difference.
Sun in 8th..square Pluto.
I am absolutely grateful for the loyalty of 1 or 2 friends and almost all of my family. I feel it, and am certain they provide the answer for my Pluto square.
Am I loyal? Absolutely. It’s in my bones. I don’t really know any other way. Once I find someone worth being loyal to, I stick to them like glue. Through it all. But in the same token, I’m no fool. Take this for granted, and I will immediately be done with you. (Taurus Moon, Scorpio Mercury, Mars, and Pluto…)
Are others loyal to me? Ha, not by a chance. I can count maybe 3 or 4 people who have continued to just be there with me through it all. VERY rare. I guess people don’t know how to accept it, therefore they don’t know how to give it.
I find it quite sad when someone tells me they’ve never had someone care for them like I care for them. Very true. Once you’re in with me, unless I’ve got good reason to be done with you, that’s it, you’re in with me. Bottom line. But don’t mess it up, because when I’m done with you that’s also it. Done.
It works out nicely.
My Moon is in Scorpio, a nocturnal birth. It’s actually a perfect whole moon in the 11th house, having separated from Saturn.
The idea of loyalty reminds me of the concept of desire, a place where everybody seems to get stuck due to the belief in separation, due to the belief that we are bodies (not eternal spirits).
I say that the spirit is infinitely loyal by its definition; and that one can never be loyal to a body, because it crumbles. Be you loyal to a corpse? Those who were loyal to Hitler did it out of fear…. in fact, to protect their own bodies, which they identified with their existence.
Loyalty in the true sense cannot be understood until one know what purpose it is serving.
I say that the Creator is infinitely loyal to his Son; and from this do I know to be infinitely loyal unto Him; and not to bodies. There is universe whole and perfect that this world is in opposition to. The so called loyalty of a Moon in Scorpio (and I think the 8th house has absolutely nothing to do with this unless Scorpio is the sign of the 8th house), must have the majority of its destructive roots pulled out before it can begin serving the true self.
*Also, I’ve learned that loyalty isn’t always about sticking by someone’s side. You’ve got to be loyal, and wise. Kind of a package deal. Wise enough to know when this person will only keep bringing you down. In which case you must be loyal to yourself, and treat yourself well so that you can give the best of you to someone who deserves it.
Took a lot for me to learn this, and yeah I’m young at 21, but I’ve seen more in these 21 years than many have seen in their entire lives 😉 I’ve also got two awesomely (although immature at times) wise and open minded parents who have let us go out and learn things on our own, but have also established healthy boundaries. Glad I got ’em even when they get on my nerves haha!
Sweet question, Elsa!
I’m loyal. And I have people loyal to me…Big dose of Taurus squaring 8th House Saturn in Leo.
But, I agree with Ro..I was loyal to one of my oldest friends a good 5 years after she began abusing it. I opened up the lines of communication—wwwiiiiiiiiide open—-and she simply wouldn’t have it. So after 18 years of friendship, I packed it in.
I pointed to the big smelly shit on the floor and said “You crapped here on my floor” and she refused to own up to it. Sometimes I feel this kind of occurrence is a tragedy, but I’d rather keep the dogs out and have my floor clean than the alternative.
Elsa, though I have a lot of mutable in my chart, My Leo Moon and Venus/Pluto Scorpio doesn’t like the “here today, gone tomorrow” types!
I wrote a list last year of qualities I require in any prospective partner. This was the top of the list. I’m still single. Says it all really.
What is very interesting is the way loyalty is so quiet, underexpressed. There are moments when it shines through. It is hard to really know if someone is loyal or if you are loyal to something unless it is really put to the test. I think it is a sentiment you carry in your heart – more than morality, it is something born of love and respect. Whether it’s for a boss or spouse, child or best friend, it is this feeling of being connected to a person no matter what. It is an alliance – so maybe it can be expressed without putting it to the test, with a knowing smile, a squeeze of a hand shake, etc. But I’m not sure that we can ever believe that someone is ever really loyal to us unless we have seen it tested or seen it in action. Loyalty is deep, and many people would like to think they are loyal souls, but it is an emotion that sometimes competes/conflicts with selfishness. And self-interest is one of the hardest things to overcome.
With all my Leo and Scorpio, most definitely, loyal. I also have a big tendency to jump in if I think someone is being bullied, even if I don’t know them. I just can’t tolerate it.
Jeez, I don’t know. I’ve been questioning this lately, a lot.
Although, I am extremely loyal to those who have gained my trust, who I hold close to my heart–a very small circle. As my Scorpio man says, “I would help _____ bury a body if they needed me to”.
Toni – I think almost everyone is “here today, gone tomorrow”, furthermore they’d put this on their resume as a wonderful quality to have.
Loyalty is just plain underrated at the moment but this will change.
I see my kid… he is a (uncommonly) loyal to his friends and family and he is just plain bewildered when his friends wander off or are fickle – with him one day and against him the next.
This is tied up with honor I suppose… something else is fairly short supply. In whatever case I have to teach him that very few can or will return his brand of loyalty… how to figure out who is who and what to do about it because he himself will never be disloyal because it’s not in his nature just like it is not in mine.
I am not a fair weather friend, in that I don’t dump friends when they are down.
However, I do believe in loyalty tempered with accountability. I see a lot of corruption in government that happens because people are blindly loyal to each other.
I’m loyal to my husband, but I don’t generally trust hardly anyone else to the extent I would be as loyal to them.
My father told me when I was very young, always trust people to be themselves. This piece of advise has served me more than any other. You have to pay attention to who you are dealing with. And you have to expect them to act like exactly who they are. This takes discernment, and following your gut over any other consideration.
I have pluto conjunct jupiter in the 8th at the top of a kite, trine my asc. I think those that are not loyal can’t recognize loyalty.
loyalty is like a sense of humor. everyone thinks they’re got it.
Yes, I am. I do have North Node/Venus/Uranus in Scorpio, but I’m also a potentially selfserving Libra. But actually, it’s not hard to come by other people who are equally loyal here. Loyalty was and still is seen as one of the main virtues in the Finnish culture. It may be because this is such a small nation, with such a big neighbour. Loyalty has been the key element to our survival.
So much so that I see the downside of loyalty here too. All of my life the country has been silently run by unofficial “bands of brothers” who apply the military code of loyalty (“don’t leave your comrade behind”) in the politics and the business too. It actually would make a lot of good to everybody if more people had the guts to rat on their friends, when their actions haven’t been clear.
Interesting twist. This morning in my hometown, a local chief of police was indicted on a slew of charges involving a coverup of two rogue officers. In both cases, the chief knew the officers’ fathers, who were both in law enforcement. (The officers have both been convicted of crimes involving abuse of power–coercing womem suspects into sex, in exchange for dropping charges, etc.). Anyway, if the chief is guilty, it paints a pretty clear picture of loyalty, but without honor or duty.. he covered up out of loyalty, but ignored the honor and duty of his office.. it’s once of those things where this blog set the topic, and whoa–there it is in my local paper.
“loyalty is like a sense of humor. everyone thinks they’re got it.”
1. Yep. What Satori said.
2. Also what User said about blind loyalty.
I don’t believe in ‘unconditional’ loyalty. Same as I don’t believe in unconditional love, unconditional respect or unconditional anything.
I don’t give it, and I don’t expect it.
I not blindly loyal, but I am very loyal. Sometimes I liken myself to a dog in my loyalty.
Loyalty? Like Elsa says, it’s plain underrated.
Well, when people get rid of me or project– they usually don’t realize what they’ve lost. I guess if they knew, they’d act differently? Or not. Not a people person.
Lynne E – yes and I’ll tell you something else. I can’t tell you how many people have told me I should be disloyal to one of my friends in particular(probably 2 dozen). Apparently they think my loyalty is misplaced and they are so wrong. I would have to be an absolute piece of shit to betray this person and when I say this they the people think it’s debatable.
I explain (many, many times now) that it is not debatable to me and they wander off thinking I am an idiot. There is money to be made, see? But I don’t want that kind of money.
And another example. I know who Obama’s astrologer is and I am not going to tell you (or sell the information).
I’m pretty loyal, but my brother is LOYAL. He is a taurus with scorpio rising.
I’m loyal by heart but not always dependable or available. Not everyone appreciates (and I can understand) but for my friendships going on 40+ years … well they must know I’m not going anywhere far. One very old friend jokes when there are long pauses that he knows I’m just out visiting another galaxy. (cancer friend…i’m pisces)
I do admire people who are also more dependable and available (they always call or write back) & I work on being more that way.
I’m extremely loyal, and definitely not a fair weather friend. My closest friends know I’m practically a hermit by nature, so I may or may not come to the parties… But they also know that I will surface in a crisis, and that I will keep my mouth shut when they have something to unload. My closest, longest friendships are with two Scorps, a Taurus, and a Cancer with Scorp moon.
I’m Aries, but my stellium in Aries is in the 8th house and my Moon is 5th house Capricorn. I’ve been betrayed by a few people who I thought were Friends. They’re dead to me now – completely cut out of my life, and will never be allowed in again. I’m too trusting of the wrong people sometimes, but once they stab my in the back I read them the riot act and walk.
And Elsa, so long as Obama’s astrologer is a good one, it’s all good. I don’t know about everyone else, but that’s all I need to know. 😉
For the second time tonight, I have to say: Hey, satori? WERD! 😛
Leo sun, 8th house moon, and a Pluto that hits everything in my chart. Loyal? Um, yeah. Pathologically so. Loyal beyond bounds of common sense, when it would be so much better and self-preserving to cut ties. It takes so much to gain my loyalty, though, that I don’t feel right abandoning those who have even after they’ve abandoned me. It’s more a question of my honor and integrity to “keep the light on” than having enough sense of self to kick ’em the fuck out.
People loyal to me? Hm… Only one, I think. And sometimes I still question her, momentarily. Loads of Pluto, maaan, it cuts both ways. :/