I had a client today, involved with someone who has an addiction. Saturn and Neptune are squared off at this time. I talked to her about plans or a commitment (Saturn) dissolving (Neptune).
It’s nothing extraordinary. Most of us say we’re going to lose ten pounds or clean the garage or whatever. Doesn’t mean we follow through.
My point was that while anything is possible, boundaries are melting pretty easily at the moment. I’m speaking generally!
But let’s say a person quits their drug, right now today. How long do you think it takes an addict to dry out, if you know what I mean. To become fully sober? To process their history and truly leave it behind.
It’s completely individual and circumstantial unfortunately
I agree with Pearl’s comments. My first thought was it’s individual – one’s own chemistry and how that person metabolizes a drug – and psychological, the landscape of that persons life, environment, support systems, etc. Although I’m strong willed, I can’t even comment on ‘will power’ regarding this, because I don’t know what it feels like to have a drug addiction. My only experience was working at a clinic dispensing methadone years ago, staffed by MDs, RNs,LPCs and Psychology. Years later in researching addiction kicked off by prescribed medications, a pharmacist comments some people can become addicted with the very first dose of prescribed opioid.
there are type 5 addicts, and then there also people that have turned to drugs because of other deep rooted issues that need to ultimately be addressed & worked through as well
and if there is severe trauma, i mean, who knows… depends on support around them, resources, i mean so so many things at play
Depends on what replaces it. If the craving for the replacement is more than the original addiction than it could happen pretty quickly. The major problem is nothing seems to be better than the original addiction…there’s a big hole where it used to be and nothing comes close to superceding it. It’s like touching divine love and having to settle for the ugly reality of pain on earth. Most of us aren’t “succeeding” in life the way we wish we could. Somebody has to lose. That’s why the addiction stays. It’s just better most times…
I just think it’s so sad. Xavier’s comment gives insight, and reminds me of how some of the clients would tell me about how it all started with them as I was dispensing their dose. It seemed to be a fascinating memory for them, a longing to feel that again, yet at the same time some of them were trying so hard to do what they had to do to kick it. I think Xavier’s words tell how boundaries might dissolve.
I agree with Pearl in her combined replies. Addiction to a drug is deep seeded, affects the person and those who love him/her differently. My experience with addiction as a family disease involves generations of coming clean, and relearning again, and again, how to replace addiction with something more powerful than that. The residual affects come and go. Making better and healthier decisions build upon themselves, slowly. Support from those who have been there has helped me. But even that changes, and different choices are made. Shortcuts sometimes band-aid the effort; and that’s not bad, in my opinion and experience, sometimes it’s a respite stop. Spiritual connection is all important in my experience. One day at a time. I’ve made the Steps part of my everyday to recognize when old habits replace my ability to be present with the a new form of ‘the craving.’
It’s wonderful that you share and give hope to others.
Recovery is a process … not an event.
Thank you, Roni. That’s what I was thinking…but you have the words. 🙂
that’s another point to – a lot of addicts (whatever it is they are addicted to) become addicts of something else.. I knew a guy that got sober, but then reverted to sex addiction.. reckless, impulsive sex. He was an Aries w/ Scorp moon
Whoa now, Hey now! on the other side of the coin, I’m Scorpio with an Aries moon conjunct Jupiter,7H; never had that burden. My son IS Aries with a Scorpio moon conjunct Uranus,8H. Scorpio bleeds into his 9H. That’s really not a “sign” of one thing, is it? Wouldn’t that be like “The Blind Men and the Elephant?” I thought Astrology went beyond one aspect. I’ve always thought of Astrology as a lens that rotates and captures more than one aspect or angle on the picture of one’s life, as opposed to one aspect defining a multidimensional human being.
Some people have more willpower than others. From my own experience 8th house types can decide to quit something out of the blue sky and choose never to let themselves be controlled by that thing again. It’s almost like compartmentalizing- like whatever it is gets stuffed in a drawer until it loses its power over them. Of course something has to replace the addiction…some distraction, some goal other than quitting.
Is that to say the distraction is a watered down addiction?
Life long marathon, not a sprint, one day at a time.
I think Xavier has made an important point. Being touched by Divine Love versus the pain of earthly life. I replaced addicitve behaviour (bulimia, anorexia, nicotine addiction and others…)with a prayer life, belief in the intercession of saints, following a religious life, active participation in the Mass and church life….it has relieved me of the ‘hole’ which I filled with addictive behaviour and replaced it with a well full of love, healing and hope. The risk to return is always there but I practice a religious way of life (I’m married with two sons by the way) and it works. Divine love has healing power that we need and can’t fight our addictions without. I have a strong pluto so being addicted comes easy. I’ve taken many years redirecting my addictions into a prayer, good works and faith in God. The results in my small life are nothing short of miraculous for me and my family.
Those are really big questions. I don’t know any addicts that have said to me, I no longer crave the drug. It seems to be the choice to discontinue the usage so as not to experience the consequences of doing it again that keeps them clean.
I was really surprised when one recovering addict told me that most addicts have a secondary addiction, too. I may be wrong but I understood that to mean that the drug gives permission for the secondary addiction. Not sure.
is there maybe a addictive personality? meaning some recovered addicts I know get addicted to hugging everyone they meet and then explain the mechanics of the gesture even at anniversary get togethers where all have been clean for 10+ years so maybe they get addicted to to a process, maybe something must be a integral part of them like luggage
I had to deal with a lot of addictions in my lifetime (alcohol, heroin, cocain, cigarettes). I’ve got Neptune in Scorpio opposite Venus in Taurus. I did my time in AA and never found a better solution because an addict doesn’t just need to dry out from a substance, but also to entirely rebuild a life based on a new set of ethics that they need to define with a little outside help (do I want to be a crook? do I want to be a nice person? where do I want to live? where is my place in the world? etc.working one issue at a time). I think it’s not even worth bothering to quit if you are going to remain the same person. The addiction just keeps popping back up in a different place.
My other piece of advice is to switch addictions in the first stages to something relatively harmless. In the meeting rooms everybody drank this horrible decaf as if there were no tomorrow, but it helped them. Personally, when it got difficult, I used sweets, and I mean a lot of sweets to get over the worst period. It worked!
Obviously, some people would have to start with a hospitalization and medical supervision depending on how bad they are.
Love to all of you. Hope it helps. Happily recovered.
I have been studying this for a long time. My mom was an alcoholic and my dad too… later in life. I have Scorpio so I am more the control freak… I dont like anything having power over me.
But… I can be very co-dependant … I rescue people and turns out some of them have been addicts (Mars Pisces)MY husband and son were/are pot heads.
I amin relationship with a bi polar person. In a recent therapy session I realized I am still trying to fix my mom… SHe kind of came to me and said she is ok now I can let go. Phew!
SO its a kind of co addiction. I have read a lot about addiction etc and one of the best books recently is by Gabor Mate called ‘In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts.’ He works with addicts and says that every last one of the women have been sexually abused. He goes into a lot of the science around addiction as related to trauma. Its a kind of self medicating. When trauma happens the brain loses the capacity to create the feel good chemicals (always in survival mode) so the addict searches to try and feel better.
I have seen how alcoholics just switch to lesser addictions like coffee cigarettes sugar etc.
There is a book called ‘When society becomes an addict” Anne Wilson Schaef…
Its all about inner pain and trying to feel ok.
I have seen Neptune and or Pisces figure strongly in addicts charts. The urge to escape.
And I agree its a process… because healing the self is a process.
re Gabor Mate… I meant women he works with in his addiction clinic in the east end of Vancouver Canada (very rough, lots of heroin etc).
Re 12 step… its not for everyone… (sometimes i feel it can be a kind of cult in itself…group speak etc)but there is something very helpful in having group support. And the steps are powerful as well. I just think you have to go beyond that at some point… and do the inner healing to remove the trauma… then the addiction actually can go away…because the trauma is healed. But its a long road to walk…one step at a time.
No one mentioned Leo. I had a friend, a woman whose father was as she said, “the nicest guy in the world, when he wasn’t drinking.” She made it a point to not drink. One evening she was distraught and said to me, “You don’t know what it’s like to take a box of cookies to bed with you, and eat the entire box at once.” No, I don’t know. But I didn’t want to categorize her or analyze her, or dissect out all the parts of her. We all have something going on, because we’re human, if we admit to it, and she came out with it and felt safe enough with me to tell me what she takes to bed. We were friends. No judgement. So she opted for cookies all night long instead drinking. She was a beautiful Soul.
I think you will find that saturn is the devil. Remember the greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world he does not exist. Or in this case shift all the blame onto neptune.
hey elsa, thanks for this topic.
i grew up smoking pot everyday–started at 14, quit at 22. it was easy to quit then because i was having seizures while high and i got scared for my life. i just dropped it and picked up an obsession with meditation instead; i became spiritual and determined to be enlightened in this lifetime. i didn’t get high again for 17 years and at some point during those years i realized that meditation wasn’t going to help me escape myself; i will only ever become more conscious through meditation, and i’ll have to face my shit more directly. so i worked on that with therapy, etc., but i also leaned heavily on a sugar addiction.
then i picked up the pot habit again during my neptune square–i was hoping to get really into music or art or some other neptunian pursuit, but my sister came to town and she still gets high regularly, and i guess i needed to not feel for a while. that was 4 years ago and now i’m still trying to quit. for me its definitely a means of self-medication and escape. i’m very anti-social when i’m high. i can’t have conversations, i can’t speak or relate. i’m off in a world of my own. for the first couple of years of this renewed addiction, i completely stopped engaging in social pursuits and distanced myself from friends so that i could get high. i didn’t realize, until i started getting high again, how badly i wanted to escape myself. clearly, the need to not feel is stronger than the fear of negative brain health consequences or social isolation.
now i’m trying to not get high and i’m also trying to not indulge in too much sugar. ironically, i’m also a crazy health/healing freak: years of therapy and counting, super clean diet, organic everything.
but the essence here is, i just need to feel–anything, everything–and the problem is that there is too much pain. partly because of my own background, and also partly because i feel everything else too (clairsentience). this is the issue with strong pisces, i think: empathic sensitivity to suffering all around. what’s mine? what’s not mine? i have no idea. and, of course, pot doesn’t help with finding those boundaries.
I agree that highly sensitive people (Neptune, Pisces, 12 house stuff) are more prone to escapism… and Tamarac’s story reminded me that was the thing I found missing in Mate’s book… an understanding that highly sensitive people are going to be traumatized much more easily because everything impact them more .
I have had many discussions and looked at quite a few charts of people with Neptune issues and there’s always more of a struggle to be in the world.
Two years for the dust to settle and to begin to see clearly – then you basically go back in time to where your substance use became a problem and you have to start growing up from that point all over again. Someone once told me it’s like having a bus loaded with luggage in the overhead compartments – if you slam on the brakes (sobriety) all that baggage will fly off the shelves and hit you in the head. The thing that keeps so many people using is that first, clear eyes view in early sobriety of exactly how much baggage their was and what a mess it all is. If you can breathe through that part then the real work – the work of being a functioning person without a crutch – can begin. It’s hard work but so much better than the alternative.
That is such an excellent visual !