“I don’t know what closure is,” my husband said. “Who gets closure? If you do get closure then fine but I’d not go looking for it. The concept makes no sense. I don’t know who comes up with this stuff.”
As a Venus Neptune type, I know exactly what he means. Nothing ever ends. There’s no way to close anything because you never know when a person is going to pop up in real life, your thoughts, your dreams, in a conversation, in a poem, in a song…
I’d never heard this stated so plainly. To look for “closure” is to waste your time.
Sorry, Kash. It’s “not right” but you don’t have to martyr yourself. It sucks, but walking away is the win.
Yes, it is a very liberating idea. I like it and think I’ll adopt it.
Wow, funny to see this old ghost pop up. I’m in such a better place than back in 2008 it is unbelievable. All that written above? I was in hell.
“… who comes up with this stuff?” This line makes me laugh. I hear ya, brother! I wonder that about many things.
I totally agree with this post! I have a tendency to ruminate, but I got a much better grip on that tendency now.
Maelle I like that
There is no such things closure, I wish there was, it would help the healing
It’s a myth, a misunderstanding,a ‘nice’ modern idea that gives us the illusion we can get to a place where we’re in control. It doesn’t exist.
Life never ends. It’s an eternal circle. And even if you die you might come back as something else.
My Gemini loves this philosophical stuff, LOL.
I do believe you get closure in one or two area of your life, but completely and absolutely? Well I say welcome to planet earth.
The synchronicity of this site to me always amazes me. Whenever I’m struggling with an issue, Elsa addresses it! I’ve been trying for years to get “closure” on a relationship and beating myself up that I haven’t. And it’s a relief that I don’t have to! In my life, it’s been less about “closure” and more about what kundrie described. Thank you!!!!!!
What about “forgiveness”? Does that fall in the same category? Thanks!!!!
Hi, Jeanne. I think forgiveness exists. 🙂
I have forgiven many people many things and hopefully vice versa. 🙂
I like the graphic in this post! Whenever I hear about someone wanting closure, I think about a particular line from a Maroon 5 song: “I know that goodbye means nothing at all…” There are a couple of meanings in that line – depends how you read it 🙂
“But I love him.” “So love him.” “But I miss him.” “So miss him. Send him some love and light every time you think about him, then drop it.” Elizabeth Gilbert – Eat, Pray, Love
Great point. I don’t believe complete closure can exist. The brain is a web of memories, thought, and ideas. You can’t fully control it. I still break into laughter when i think of good times I had with lost ones, or cry when I think of the bad. When I think of exes or lost friends/family I try to do the above, even if it ended badly. It helps me to have peace. Maybe that sense of peace is the closure, I dunno.
Cant believe what you went through @Kashmiri…great to hear things have improved & are much better. Seems as though Pluto in Cap really made things rough for a lot of peeps out there around the world..im certainly one of them too!
As for the topic of closure, life is a continuing steam. The river of feelings never really stops flowing. At least in my experience (Cancer Sun, Mercury & Mars + Ceres).
When i think about wanting closure, i listen to some Eric Clapton, tune out for a bit, & remember that heartache never truly dies, it lives with us forever.
That is so true, in fact i reckon that may be the reason why its so much harder to form a new romantic relationship with someone when you are an adult, because we all know that experiences within love relationships from ones past always stays with the individual/person, regardless of what they have to say about their past experiences ie: good or bad. We always want to know if they still think of their past partners, & (generally) secretly think ‘have they truly moved on’. Physically they may have moved on, but psychologically i believe this is impossible. No matter how much counseling or therapy you could put yourself through, closure is near impossible. We live & learn through our relationships, & part of that is never forgetting, therefor..we never truly move on.
You should really consider contacting the media about this. Especially the part where you are being threatened with having to pay for future legal action.
Social Media isn’t a small thing. They even have a twitter page. Nothing is more embarrassing to a gov’t body like that then being put on blast.
call me the one on crack who believes and hopes in all things, but I do believe in closure. It depends though. For example I may think about my past involvement in jail but HALLELUJIAH its over! I have no need to think of it anymore. If someone brings it up fine I’ll talk about it and laugh about it or talk about how a guard was a bombshell in jail which made no sense but hey I really do have closure. Why? Because it was in the past. But Elsa I will agree with you if its a thing that you cannot seem to overcome. I for one have a genetic predisposition without medicine. Now the only closure I can get is my faith music and medicine all of which is healing. The key word for getting closure is healing. And prayer for me reading scripture and reading into prophets, etc heals me. So I distract myself from what may not bring me closure. So perhaps its a self evolving process. I think indeed we are flawless beings and only Jesus is perfect so in truth I’d say we are obviously not perfect but we can strive for healing away from non-closure. And ((((Kashmiri))) I hope nothing from the best from now on for you. I told an ex roommate once as she was on a threshold it sounded crazy and in fact I sounded like “Jack” from Titanic but I told her “you have nothing to lose when your at your lowest” and its true! What I mean to say , is its only up from here. So make the wisest choices from now on. She later bought herself a BMW Mini from a little pinto/geo she drove and she is probably somewhere in Australia. God bless her because she went through hard times too like all of us. Well, I am trying to get on my feet two. A prayer is coming your way <
I`ve been known to close doors off the hinges when enraged , I`m working on that in my ol age but its still there and I have a new cordless drill which may come in handy , and there are a few corpses that could use another air intake .
@bellavita1029~ Love the quote!! That book/movie is so full of great quotes. The monologue at the end always makes me tear up.
“…I’ve come to believe that there exists in the universe something I call “The Physics of The Quest” – a force of nature governed by laws as real as the laws of gravity or momentum. And the rule of Quest Physics maybe goes like this: “If you are brave enough to leave behind everything familiar and comforting (which can be anything from your house to your bitter old resentments) and set out on a truth-seeking journey (either externally or internally), and if you are truly willing to regard everything that happens to you on that journey as a clue, and if you accept everyone you meet along the way as a teacher, and if you are prepared – most of all – to face (and forgive) some very difficult realities about yourself….then truth will not be withheld from you. Or so I’ve come to believe.”
The “no-closure” concept resonates with me. But I do think each time the old feelings crop up about a past event/former person-in-my-life the feelings can be worked with so they are less potent and (potentially) crippling. I have been through a fair bit of pain (haven’t we all!) but each time I have a painful memory I let my heart feel it and just breathe through it. As as result, each time I suffer a little bit less. The pain is still there – a scar on my heart – but the breathing loosens it up so I can free myself from the suffering. And – I think that is where forgiveness lies. When we lighten things up enough such that we don’t forget the pain but we no longer suffer. I can let old lovers and their hurtful ways go but my heart is still open. My heart’s not broken but neither is it locked up. There is forgiveness and hope in that.
Whoops – autocorrect. Should have read “my heart is not unbroken but neither is it locked up” 🙂
@SaturnRxScorpio1985 – I agree, I have wondered that myself. I make the distinction of knowing who past loves were at that moment in time, when I was myself at that moment in time. I don’t stay in touch with them so I don’t know who they are now. Yes, one investigate and learn facts about their new lives but it was a picture in time that I knew them. As long as I focus on the people I am impacting now and being impacted by, it does us all justice 🙂 I also think of that lyric when someone close to me dies…it’s poignant.
Reaching closure about closure. I like that. To me closure means getting to a point of acceptance of ‘it was what it was’ and getting on with it. ‘Not wallowing’ as you said. If something is holding me back, it’s not closed. But, of course, I’ve been ripped wide open so I’ve had no choice.
There are some life events that I cannot even talk about because I can’t go back there. War stories too sordid to broach. Sometimes I just have to get through it and by it. And if it gets poked I just turn my mind away from it. Why suffer.
Closure . . . realizing that the event is behind me, not happening now???
Closure is such an over used term. I want to scream when I hear it used in connection with some grieving parents after the body of their child has been found. Of course, there is no “closure” in situations like these. A very slowly acquired acceptance is as good as it gets.
Kashmiri, I salute your bravery and tenacity and hope that that next door that opens brings you good things.
@VeganRN, ”I don’t stay in touch with them so I don’t know who they are now.”
Totally. Makes it much easier to move on in the long term & be fully available in the present moment 🙂
Also, i had a best mate of mine pass away from a car accident back in 2004, she was like a sister to me, & i have a favorite ‘Maroon 5’ song that always takes me back there along with that particular lyric you quoted..very poignant indeed ,-)
Amazing how one song or lyric can resonate the same or similar philosophical meaning & bring up the same memories to so many people out there around the world. Awesome.
”I want to scream when I hear it used in connection with some grieving parents after the body of their child has been found. Of course, there is no “closure” in situations like these. A very slowly acquired acceptance is as good as it gets.”
Spot on! acceptance in a situation like that is as good as it gets, i particularly hate it whenever the media uses the word ‘closure’ in relation to a murder case. The case may be closed, but that don’t mean it brings any real ‘closure’ in the hearts of the grieving family & loved ones. Acceptance..over an extremely long period of time, along with counseling & therapy (which only alleviates parts of the grief) is most certainly as good as it gets.
Great repost. Love the Physics of the Quest – love it. I have Taurus and Scorpio, Leo and Aquarius energy – I think it is hard for the fixed types to let go – but with this Pluto transit lately I have been saying out loud – I let it go – I give it to you. New things are showing up. For a while I was like Ceres weeping over the land where nothing would bloom, but lately feeling better – planting new things. I think the acceptance is great advice. Thank you for all the sharing, it was worth reading – helped me to think about my situation differently.
Kashmiri: On a smaller scale I understand your position. I recently got hired for my DREAM job, after 8 years of un- and under- employment. Great pay, benefits, great location, loved the work. Couldn’t be better. Ten days in my boss calls me into his office and tells me he lied about everything when he hired me. He wasn’t looking to ‘expand his business’ he was looking to RETIRE in a year and thought with my experience I might be the one he could train up to replace him, but now he realized that’s just going to be too much work. So I got canned, again, even though I did NOTHING wrong. I don’t expect much from an employer these days, but I at least expect them to be honest about the position they are hiring me for. I spoke to an attorney, who said I definitely have a case but they aren’t willing to chance it unless I pay the costs upfront, which isn’t going to happen since I’m basically destitute. No money, no justice. If that guy had been honest with me from the start I could have and would have told him I was not the right person for his replacement, he’s going to need an attorney or underwriter, who are also usually attorneys.
I haven’t ever been able to get closure emotionally. When I’m attached to someone, I stay attached until I’m ready to let go.
But…I can understand seeking closure pertaining to factual info that would help you stop saying “if only”, “maybe”, “what if” questions. Sometimes, knowing where another person stands factually, can help us stop wondering these things, allowing us to move on faster.
I know a person who I’d like to recieve closure with. With closure, dont expect to completely close the book on my feelings, I just want my unanswered questions answered…thats what i meant by facts/info. Its not like i would expect to dtop having feelings, but i would hope to stop wondering certain things.
I think closure is something that can only happen in your own mind. Like, I’m done with this and walk away. That is closure and you do it for yourself. I don’t understand how could another person give you closure. It’s something I’ve been wondering about for years as many of my female friends need closure all the time and I don’t understand it.
If closure means completely cutting off from experiences, then it would be of no value. What’s the use of going through a painful event if the lesson doesn’t stick and help? I agree with forgiveness and think it’s as close to closure that a person can come to. I think a lot of people have a murky idea about forgiveness. It isn’t condoning and it doesn’t have to come after an apology. Mostly, it’s deciding the event isn’t worth carrying around anymore. Forgiveness heals the forgiver. Transcendence enables peace, and that’s what people think of as closure.
I don’t know about closure, but more precisely is a feeling that you’re no longer depressed, or angry, about a person, thing, or situation.
With a smile: I have Venus conjunt Neptune in Libra in house two and Pisces on house 7
and my Sun in house 12. I can understand this very well.
But I agree with Hermit…I have experienced that this can.
My fiancé left me when I got a brain tumor. I pined for him for a year plus…then became involved with another man and began to forget about him. A few years later, he called me for dinner; we went out and caught up. But when he asked again, I said no…No regrets, just great closure!! Time is magical.
Kashmiri. I cannot explain what has happened to you or why. Sometimes, evil triumphs. Temporarily.
I also cannot imagine your journey. How awful. But you are obviously a strong person — you will prevail. More money can be acquired. Your emotional & physical health are priceless.
Those lying bastards will have to answer for their misdeeds, some day. Stay in your light, keep fighting the good fight, & Goddess bless you. XO
Ahhh –yes. Closure. What a beautiful pipe dream that is. I would say that you can only, at best, gain temporary closure. A point where, whatever the situation is, the thing reaches an end point or a peak.
No matter what, everybody we meet and everything we do leaves a mark on us. Sometimes it’s our entire world at that moment. Sometimes it’s a microscopic blip on the radar that isn’t registered until years or decades later. But those marks stay with us on our journey so they’re never truly gone or “closed” –they can still resurface anytime. Even in Alzheimers patients.
What is closure? You sit down with a guy who has broken up with you and he says…”you gained weight and I really never liked red hair. Betty Jo on the other hand has a perfect figure and I love blonds-she is perfect for me. And I never liked your dog’ Would that be closure? No, it would be emotional trauma and hurt feelings.
I don’t get the closure thing-I think its sort of a crazy idea. You have closure when its over, and you may never know the complete reason. Closure is something you give yourself when its over.
The case sounds constructed. I mean a guy, who doesn’t like red hair…
Most people who are gone- meaning I have given them the old heave ho- I’m shocked at how I don’t think about them. Like if somehow it pops up I’m like, wow, when was the last time I thought of them?
I’m good with that. 🙂
I had to read all the comments in order to understand what closure means.
On the one hand, although many people in Germany say ‘you meet always twice in life’, this never happened to me.
On the other hand, breaking the concept of closure is exactly for what the lunar nodes (and probably also other planetary nodes, I’m still waiting what Satori wanted to say about them) are there. If I look at the charts of all my friends, who were ever close enough to give me their birth data, then they all show connections with my lunar nodes. So I’d say, if you meet, then not only during one life.
Such an interesting perspective. I tend to agree.
Lol – I respectfully disagree… :)))
Why? Because if you don’t understand what happened and why, in any given dynamic that you are directly involved in, then as a life lesson/experience you will definitely run the risk of repeating it again and again in different expressions, guises, life lessons in the future. Not a nice thought!
Understanding your own contributing factors to the dynamic that you are seeking closure on (whether relationship or otherwise), is the key to changing it, avoiding it in your future.
The classic example is the poor person who marries the same type of “patterned” person(s) again and again. Eg: they fail to examine their own “root patterning” behaviors in their psyche that helped to subconsciously recreate the dynamic repeatedly. They miss the opportunity of closure for themselves by empowering themselves in taking ownership for “what they did” and examining it closely for closure clues that are self examining.
The saying “history repeats” is not only true, but guides us about the need to seek closure on matters by better understanding them and changing our ideas, our decisions, our behaviors in order to produce better outcomes the next time around. (This is closure – done well.)
Most people look to others for closure and this approach is flawed, because it projects the fault onto the other person, where in the end, it can be difficult to dissect why?
Good luck in knowing thyself! 🙂
Cheers – Shane
Yes, it is closure, in a sense. Like ‘closing’ a chapter. I think some people are getting ‘closure’ and ‘death’ mixed up.
Closure; that just leaves me thinking it is really more like the now common phase of, “moving on”. Both leave me puzzled. Close what? A door, a snap lock, or? (:smile:) Then, this phrase of “moving on”. Why do the psychs have to come up with wanky phrases? Just tell it like it is; straight & simple. No grey area, no confusion. It is what it is!
Either it is a simple, goodbye, or it is, you go your way & I will go mine.
Nice & clear.
LIKE this post.
Hi Elsa, interesting topic. l am one of those people who needs to get closure, even thought the people will or not ever again popup into my life again. The closure is pure for myself for my soul. It helps me deal with the pain, it helps me break the cord that might keep me attached to that person otherwise. It feels like closing that chapter and enables me to let go of that person easy, no matter what happens later..l need to do that in order to move on NOW. Later we will meet again maybe but l will be different. It feels karmic l need to close it here and now, it’s just important to me.
In my experience, grief has no closure. It’s something that needs daily management.
I don’t move on. I move with.
However, not one bit of that grief is over people I cut out of my life.
I think of closure as the difference between Am I still emotionally hung on this person or I Definitely wouldn’t go back to them even if u paid me a million dollars. That’s closure. Knowing u can move on In a healthy Manner. I have been with people who take it out on me for what their ex did to them. Or how about the ones who talk about an ex every day ? no closure there.