This is for a client but it is widely applicable. There are many, many people like this (like me) so here’s how it goes, in plain language. She’s trying to decide (Saturn in Libra) whether to stay or dump her considerable investment.
“Are you friends with benefits? I am afraid most men can have these type set-ups regardless of how they are labeled but this is something you need to know….
Er… I am capable of being with a man and screwing him stupid, laughing, traveling, cooking for him, whatever and still I know I will never marry him. Maybe it’s because he’s a drinker. Maybe it’s because I know he cheated on someone in his past. Maybe I just know myself and I don’t want to be married. But you see what I am getting at. If you can find a fine point like this, it might be the piece you need…”
Sound familiar anyone?
Cher put it best many years ago when she said she was “having some fun with Mr. Wrong”.
I’m always thinking of another Cher quote…some women get excited over nothing and then they marry him. 🙂 My error in the past was thinking…okay, the sex is good so let’s get married. I’m enjoying a beneficial friendship with a Scorpio now. No desire to marry the man but man we have fun.
A friend of mine put it that way: there are guys you really want to be with and then there are BTN’s (better-than-nothings.) I have come to the conclusion that being with a BTN is a waste of time at this point in my life. Still, it can be tempting at times.
Are they in a GF/BF commitment, or is it ambiguous all around?
Mr Wrong can, indeed, be a lot of fun. 😉
that cartoon is too funny
That’s how it was for me. I was with my guy almost five years – but I always knew we were going nowhere. He finally broke it off – to my surprise – most men would have kept a sex-loving, sane woman. But he had major commitment issues and I knew it. I should have ducked out when it stopped being fun, but I didn’t. I’m not a “leaver”. I stay even when I know it’s not what I need – and that’s my next challenge, I think.
I think of that as mr right now.
I’m trying to be beyond that, but as CardinalPisces said it’s not always easy.
I don’t think this trend has peaked yet but it will eventually. It’s unsustainable.
Uhhh, this one is not for me. Tried it, destroyed the friendship. 🙁
This has been most of my “relationships” for me in my perspective…maybe one case I really fell in love. Other times I love to have male friends that I truly love but I just know we aren’t walking down the aisle…anytime soon. If it’s not soon for me (my aries moon has to hit the road)..and my sag venus is fine just staying friends with my friends with benefits, who really didn’t know we were just friends UNLESS they called me their girlfriend. In which case I’m fiercely loyal. Can anyone relate?
Does that apply to friendships without benefits, I wonder? I mean, do some people hang with you, go places with you, talk and chat and laugh, and the whole time know that they don’t intend to be your friend for long/forever? *ponders*
@Rkkggg I am sure it does.
I also think that today’s “boyfriend and girlfriend” is FWB in many, many cases, even when people have been together years.
I know someone like this who thinks it’s BF/GF but there is going to be a rude awakening when it turns out it’s a FWB.
And at 50 she should not be wasting time.
“I also think that today’s “boyfriend and girlfriend” is FWB in many, many cases, even when people have been together years.”
Very astute! So true!
There was that couple I wrote about… spent college and grad school together. They graduated, he got a job and left her, instantly. She (and all of their friends) were stunned. But I betcha anything he never made her any promises.
I am pretty sure I have this figured out – it’s my interest. But I have to wait until people get a little further down this road, otherwise I get shot at.
I can’t help it – I am always way out there, ahead – its my gift and my curse.
Most of you will be where I am eventually and I think a good number of you realize it on some level. I am sorry about this.
It’s part Jupiter Uranus and part like 8th house instinct, like this dog here:
How have you figured it out? I would be very interested to know more… Specially because of the transits you mention – I had a similar experience to the girl who was left suddenly. A few years have passed, and now I’m fine… maybe even thankful. But when I became interested in astrology, I checked my transits for that day – I had Jupiter and Uranus in EXACT conjunction to my 8th house Sun.
I have come to my own conclusions about what went down, but I do see this trend growing. To me it feels like a reluctance to really care about one person, a too great(Jupiter) detachment(Uranus) from intimacy… or a reluctance to admit that intimacy with different people is not completely interchangeable. (Or maybe it is, just not for me). In any case, I would love to hear your opinion.
And I would like to say thanks for your blog… I recently started reading here, it gives me a great deal of perspective and food for thought. And some smiles. 🙂
I figure it out, because I’ve worked with thousands of people at this point, mostly women. And I hear their stories and my friend’s stories and the stories of their friends.
What I am saying here is undeniable, for the majority at this point.
One story that stuck with me…my stepson married his wife in college. Then he went to war for six years (he graduated West Point). He came back and went to college for two years to get his Masters. By then he’d been married, going on ten years. This is not FWB!
So while in college, he made a lot of friends…many of them couples, since he was a couple. But then when it came to graduate, he was STUNNED, when the men, uniformly left the women. Some of these relationships were 5 or 6 years old.
I don’t think these women knew they were girlfriends for now, or for convenience, but they were.
I see the trend changing, yes. This is how I feel. I never wanted promises before—I thought asking for and exchanging them would curtail my freedom. But it’s different now, and I see it reflected elsewhere too.
What’s curious to me is, it wasn’t so long ago that women raised eyebrows IF they pressed for a promise, (commitment, marriage, etc.) the guy wouldn’t give one, and then they let the relationship go, even if the partner was a good man.
Do I have that right? That Saturn in Libra has switched things up?
I think my comment got binned.
No, no, NO. I CANNOT do this. Sex, for me, is a very spiritual experience.
I had sex with my ex when I knew I didn’t want to marry him (and look where that got me). Huge mistake.
I won’t even consider having sex unless I think we have a future together.
It’s going to have to be a really special guy for me to ever give it up again. I only want to share this with THE GUY.
This sounds like something that probably did come out of my mouth. But then there’s Neptune…
Jupiter, Uranus and the 8th house, hhmmmmmm. I was thinking along the lines of Saturn in Scorpio, Pluto in Capricorn. I survived SAturn/pluto in scorpio in my 8th house last time and now they will be in mutual reception, this can’t be as bad as then
CAN IT?? o_O
Being a long time observer and close confidant of many personal secrets, shared in the privacy of a “safe space”, I have watched the FWB’s trend build peak, and now seemingly losing momentum.
I believe this is because women are innately wired differently than men…no matter what roleplaying and lifestyles couples “try on” women are emotionally wired for longterm, secure relationships with a modicum of commitment, whatever that ends up looking like. Men too have also been known to desire the same, but they can more easily disconnect their emotions from the pure sexual act alone.
In 20 yrs of listening to relationship secrets, I haven’t met many sane, normal women that are willing to or able to engage in serial sexual escapades with 2, 3, or 4 men at a time.
However, for men this poses a more exciting, challenge, proving their virility, increasing sexual desire with variety, and by having many partners they are biologically more apt to “sow lot’s of seeds” increasing the biological success of passing on their DNA.
Women, on the other hand have few long term benefits to gain, and much to lose. Not only do they find themselves being objectified as sexual playthings, there is the added risk of being taken to the cleaners (financially and emotionally), even if there are no expectations, promises or future plans discussed. Women may benefit in the short term, but emotionally they are cutting off much of their consciousness in order to do so.
Women almost invariably end up fantasizing that the relationship will somehow “morph” into something more permanent, even if reality belies all these “dreams”….thus in my opinion, I think women are beginning to see the longterm deficits and risks of accepting a FWB’s partnership as better than nothing.
There are always exceptions to the rule, and many women and men have been so damaged emotionally in relationships that they no longer want to invest their love and trust in someone permanently. Remarkably, I find that most healthy individuals (both men and women) desire to couple with the promise of having long lasting and fulfilling relationships, that meet deep needs for love, companionship, trust and spiritual connections.
There is still a middle ground…and most likely history will show that the pendulum is swinging back towards that level, where love is a “quid pro quo” give and take proposition, and offers something more than short term “fun” and temporary gratification. If nothing else, in these uncertain times, couples want that security of enduring love more than ever.
I never really enjoyed the sport f*ck. Too inhibited, or perhaps the chemistry was more about someone dry humping my leg….
Paleez! Tell me when you’re done….
The rest if the time it was an arm candy wear this in front of my friends kind of thing. Ok so you bought dinner.. Let me pull out my Princess Allura outfit to make the magic happen. Yawn..
I loved the dog bolting from the room minutes before an “earthquake” hits….I think you’re onto something there ;0)
id pass my entire life with someone without a marriage… someday ill find that woman.
Do. Not. Want.
It’s my Venus in Scorpio (or Pluto conj Moon) talking here, but the idea of commitment/marriage makes things sexier. Could be that the reality would not be as sexy, but I doubt it/hope not, because it’s what I’m driving for.
I can’t do it. Intellectually, I can accept the concept for what it is, but in practice… Once I have sex, the oxytocin bonding chemical kicks in, and I can find myself longing for a commitment from someone I have no business being involved with. I suspect it’s the reason a lot of women stay with crappy men when they clearly deserve better. I’m not investing a penny in junk bonds anymore!
If a man is getting good sex from you it’s because you are investing in him. We’re all savvy and innately aware of our ability to cut men off, exactly the same way men do to women.
I think we feel that if the sex is good and if we are treating him well, he may stay for the long haul. Men just like women, will hint or say, after a reasonable time of how they feel.
I don’t believe women are biologically designed to have casual sex, I feel we create bonds and we impress our emotions into them. Men can and do treat sex differently.
“I also think that today’s “boyfriend and girlfriend” is FWB in many, many cases, even when people have been together years.”
Well, see, I don’t personally see the difference at all, except that it seems like now, you can’t have a “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” – you’ve gotta be engaged or married, else it’s automatically termed “FWB”
I personally think that sucks. People can be very committed and monogamous and not married. But it seems like that’s been downgraded to fwb status by the public?
I don’t think I grasp that.
It’s the old pendulum theory, black or white, but in reality there are many different colors/shades and types of relationships…it will eventually all even out…Saturn in Libra will make damn sure of that!
I would reeeally like to know are there any specific aspects (natal or in synastry) that causes FWB? (I`ve been in an affair like that for over 2 years now)
I bet it has something to do at least with Uranus and Moon: We both have difficult(he:square me:opposition) natal aspects between these Ur an Mo.
Is she trying to decide if she should stay in her committed relationship because of doubts/new needs or wanting to increase the commitment and get engaged/cohabit/married but hasn’t discussed yet?
@lisa13, not sure if other people here will agree, but my friends consider it FWB if it’s friendship + sex, but if one commits to an exclusive relationship with their new bf/gf it reverts to a friendship only until further notice. Otherwise it would be cheating on and unfair to their bf/gf (unless polyamorous, in which case it’s their arrangement).
People can still have bf/gfs when they want to be as involved as possible with someone they love and see if there’s enough there to get married in the distance. FWB doesn’t fit into that at all unless they just don’t plan to get married.
Does that fit with your terms?