A few weeks ago the soldier and I watched a movie, I thought it was great. Matter of fact I called satori and told her I thought the movie was near perfect. I liked it’s tone, the casting, the costuming and the story was haunting to me. The movie is, Defiance and I can’t seem to stop thinking about it.
I considered writing about it last week and checked the ratings and reviews on the movie out of curiosity. I guess I wanted to know if anyone else was bugged out by it or what they thought about it or whatever. I was fairly surprised to see the fairly low ratings and the reviews which were decent but qualified so I let the writing idea go at the time but I still can’t stop thinking about this movie so here I am.
The movie tells the true story of Jewish brothers who escape into the forest as Jews are being rounded up, killed or taken to the ghetto. They meet up with other displaced Jews and eventually organize and arm themselves in order to fight off the Germans and save their lives and freedom.
They wind up having to live (freezing, starving, fighting, etc.) in the forest for 2 years, their personalities morphing in the process and I thought this was really well presented. In the end, many died but 1200 Jews who saw what was coming, bonded together and decided to fight, survived.
It was stated that this group now has tens of thousands of descendants and this is what struck me. None of those people would be here right now had it not been for the heroic effort of their ancestors. I would be so proud If I were one of their descendants.
It was humbling to see dramatized what some have had to go through just to live and heartening to see their spirit. I watched spellbound as some of women made themselves available to the (fighting) men so that they may be protected. You may or may not feel that as deeply as I did.
There was a real love story in the movie (and in real life) as well. The couple who months before had normal lives, marries in the forest that has become their home for what? The foreseeable future? Until they are killed?
This is a rich story with lots of angles that I like. I am all for rebelling (Uranus) against oppression (Saturn) and sure enough in 1941, Saturn and Uranus were conjunct so it makes sense we have a look at it now with Saturn opposing Uranus.
I hope this movie gets off my mind now but I doubt it.
They are coming to get you. Will you fight or succomb?
Fight tooth and nail!!! I will have to rent this movie. A movie that I didn’t want to watch (my husband rented it) but really affected me was Miracle at St. Anna.
so funny ..my friend and I discussed this the other day…she was shocked that I said I would fight if my country was attact*she said she would hide*witch is bs..because I know she would fight too* …for me it seems natural to fight if someone is threatning your freedom, but maybe sometimes when it done gradually and very manipulative , it is hard to know that your being deprived of human rights..
Couragous people!1200 wow…that takes guts ..agreeing those decendants should feel proud
It was recently the 65th Anniv. of the Warsaw Uprising. A lot of people, kids fought there too like this lady
I feel scared, but I’m convinced that me and like-minded people will fight. I hope we will be strong and recognise who we are when the time comes.
I’d like to say fight, but I really don’t know… I know I’m too damned stubborn to mentally give in, but I might physically go along. It’s a tough question.
I want to see that movie, the trailers looked fabulous!
I was born in 1941, during that conjunction. I did not know enough to attribute my rebellious attitude to Saturn/Uranus conjunction, but it certainly has led to an “interesting” life.
Well the movie is damn good if you let it move you. The first 15 is is chaotic but once it got going I was completely engrossed. The acting is excellent and I don’t feel it was over done. I also did not feel my emotions were manipulated which is something I hate in movie making.
There is a part in there where people decide to leave the ghetto to go with this group. The understanding is that everyone who is missing will cause 10 to be killed which is enough to keep most passive.
There is a moral question but it’s a trick one, at least I think it is. These people who did this were of a certain breed. It is quite incredible and like I said I would be proud to be one of them or associated in any way.
I’d rebel, which would mean fighting back either directly or subversively (going underground/hiding in the woods is this kind of rebellion, to me).
What I could not do is betray my own to save my ass. I’d end up dead if put in that position.
Another thing that hit me hard is how men are devalued these days… also feminized. Comes down to something like this as the soldier told me once years ago, ‘there won’t be enough men like me to go around.”
The women had to ultimately fight and go to town for food too but in most cases the men fought for the women, point being a crisis like this might wake up these gender roles? Do these gender roles even exist anymore?
I don’t mind saying that while I will fight, I would much prefer a man fighting for me. I will do the laundry and very gratefully ya know?
I am not a man, I am sure of this through and through.
“They are coming to get you.” In my culture, they have come and many of us have been fighting for two hundred years. Yes, the women and men of the Hawaiian Nation both fight. Both also learn to do laundry and heal the wounded.
I am not a man, I am a woman (this life) with a wandering soul because it helps to be on the outskirts when all the sh– hits the fan.
I am proud to have a legacy of fighting or freedom …I haven’t seen the movie, can’t go to theatres and for the while, no dvd etc. However it can come, through images or activism … this is a great infusion of info to use with Uranus doing its thing with Saturn. Thanks Elsa.
I LOVE that movie! I love any movie about rebellion, really…The entire movie was well-done. The difference between the brothers really caught me…they are so alike, and yet so different.
As for me, I would fight…I would fight tooth & nail…give me a stick, and I’ll use it…
Right! Good point, Lilly. The relationship between the brothers also very well played. Before I read the critics, I called this movie, ‘perfect” and this is not my kind of movie by any stretch.
I will fight (Mars) and rebel(Uranus)!
Movie looks cool, I should see it.
‘There is a moral question but it’s a trick one, at least I think it is.’
Why is it a trick question? Sounds very real to me. It’s I live you die.
My country was occupied by the germans and if you were found hiding Jews that would (likely) be the end of you and your family.
I wish I could say I know 100% sure I would fight, but the trade-offs are real ones.
The only reason my boyfriend is around is because a nurse rescued his father from a hospital at 3 days old. Small Jewish baby. His mother was killed in a concentration camp. She threw a note out of the transportation wagons to let the world know what the name of the baby should be. The kid grew up without parents being moved from one secret foster home to the other.
But just to say- MANY people turn into cowards when the interests of their direct family/ kids are involved. Of course they do.
“Why is it a trick question? Sounds very real to me. It’s I live you die. “
It is a trick question because why should the person who wants to fight have to die because others are compliant?
To me, when you are waiting in line to be killed, bucking the line regardless of what threat the person killing you has made, makes sense.
So I have to die because you won’t fight? No. I am going to band with those who will fight and if you are killed, I assure you it is the person who is killing you that is killing you, not me.
Oh I really wanted to see this when it played in my town. I will look for it on dvd. The write-up I read and you descriptions sound very compelling.
They were showing the film here last Winter, never got to see it because I really had too much going on, but definitely will sooner or later. Not only I’ve been a fan of Mr. Craig long before his Bond days, but I’ve always been very fascinated with the stories of resistance and liberation.
I guess it’s partly cultural, I was brought up in a country where the National culture rose as a form of resistance to the Russian imperialism of the late 19th century. Not to mention that the armed resistance to the Soviet invasion in 1939-40 has been heavily mythified. But in the late 80’s and the early 90’s I could see that not everybody around me was as strongly affected by the stories of resistance and liberation that really defined the era as I was.
So, there must be something else that draws me to stories of resistance. Astrologically, I’d say that other than the Libran sense of justice, it must be the Scorpio North Node/Venus/Uranus conjunct that sextiles my Virgo Ascendant.
Love this movie–I can understand how it’s gotten stuck in your head. 🙂
People think they can get out alive (live through it) by collaborating and it’s sad but very many do. Even though it’s morally repulsive.
Some people can’t fight- they’re young, old, sick whatever. I am not saying that it’s a reason not to break free and fight yourself, but it’s a very complex question.
What if you could make it on your own, but you have to leave your kid behind? What if they have your spouse in a different group and your breaking free (without their knowledge) puts them in danger? It’s not a black and white situation that’s all I’m saying.
A sad note about jews that survived in WWII here:
those that survived are either those who went into resistance and hid in various places for 5 years or those (often high placed) jews who actively collaborated with the Germans and put their own people to death camps (letting them believe they were work camps- did they know? who knows?). It was simple: either you did the job and survived, or you didn’t and you went to the same death camp as everyone else.
Fighting is the bravest, but whether it’s the best survival tactic? Prisoners dilemma- only if there’s enough of you.
There was resistance here against the transportation of jews. The german killed every single person who wouldn’t follow their orders. After that we went all compliant and sent thousands to their death 🙁
My comment went in the bin. I get so worked up about this because so many people think they will be heroes when there’s a war. I doubt it. Of course some will, and there should be more! But honestly, many people are too cowardly to step in when someone gets beaten up, or when someone is robbed, or other petty crime let alone when their own life is at stake.
I can’t wait to see this movie.
On a not-exactly-related note, Elsa, I saw General McChrystal on 60 Minutes last night, and seeing that he was a Special Forces man in Afghanistan, I of course thought of the Soldier and wondered if he knew him.
Aside from that, McChrystal seems to be an extremely bright and humane man who doesn’t wear body armor when he visits villages and is very concerned that the Afghani people think well of our soldiers.
Jessica, he doesn’t know him and the current Special Forces bear little resemblance to SF when he was in.
Thanks, interesting. Well, based on the gist I get about the secret and dangerous missions you’ve heard him recount, I wonder (doubt) if any of those exploits would ever have made it to prime-time television.
Jessica, it’s just completely changed. The training the changed as have the requirements. You used to have to be older / have some military experience (rank, maturity) before you could even think about being considered and now they take them right off the street at 18 years old. There are also LOTS more of them… it is just a different organization turning out a different kind of soldier trained to do different kinds of things for different reasons.
A few days ago I read of some SF guys whining to Newsweek. I am sorry but that kind of behavior is remote from what I know of SF soldiers, historically.
The world is changing… period.
My soldier was 26 years old, when he got in SF… compare that to 19 years old – you can’t. I am not insulting them, just saying there are marked differences from one era to the other that just cannot be ignored.
Thanks, I do appreciate knowing about this stuff.
Well they have 3 helicopters for 800 men. Men are dying and the Commander in Chief won’t pick up the phone. That’s something to know.
I’m not a fighter. My husband claims he is but I’ve never seen him fight anyone. He doesn’t think I’m a pacifist. So I don’t know who’s right. Since we’ve never been put in a situation which requires us to fight or flee. I can’t really answer. I know I flare up if someone attempts even when teasing to harass my husband. I’d guess that if one of us was free and the othere was being attacked, we’d fight, but otherwise. I have no idea.
I’m going to look into that movie though. I need to make a list. You mentioned a movie awhile ago that I still haven’t rented.
My first thought was that I don’t really think I’ll know what will happen until it happens. I mean, no matter what I say now, I’m just guessing.
So, I rented the movie to see if my feeling nature would give any insight.
About a third into the movie, my feeling was “trojan horse.” Bleeding the enemy’s resources seems up my alley (according to my chart). But I never saw a trojan horse in the movie, so I thought “oh well, perhaps my fate is just to die early on.” But then, that guy turned on his unit near the end and I was like “Hey! Maybe there is a place for me after all!”
Only time will tell, I suppose.
i’ve wanted to see that movie for awhile. now i really do.
i’d fight. i’ve always known i’d fight. need more training though.
and. there are men like that out there. maybe not a lot. some maybe never tested. i don’t know.
there’s also a lot of veterans come home. my friends from school all grown up and parents but i’m sure they still remember how to fight.
(the question is, what provocation would make them choose to fight…)
Heard from someone in the middle of watching this movie moved in the same way I was. ::sighs::
The dynamics of the movie were impressive….two brothers fighting for the same thing (their survival and freedom), but go about it in a different manner and how they learn through this process to never underestimate the power of blood and love, whether it is your own family, humanity in general, freedom for mankind, etc…..the interaction between the brothers was so well played out. The passion and fierceness to stand on what they believe.
DenaMaria, thanks for sharing your impressions. 🙂