The concept of having a “lot in life” has a negative connotation. This seems erroneous to me. I see every gift as a curse and vice versa.
You think you’ve been dealt bad cards but it is well and widely known, if you ask a person if they would trade their problems for another person’s, they will almost always answer, no!
For all the problems I do have there is an endless list of problems I don’t have. For example I am not an alcoholic. Whew! ::wipes sweat:: That’s not something I would like to deal with.
What do you think? Did you just land here or did you elect this life somewhere along the way?
i kind of think that we pick some of it out beforehand, or like a general roadmap, and some of it we create as we go. like our lives are a great big pieces of art, and there’s beauty in all of it, if you look for it.
As an astrologer, I’d say we choose our parents and circumstances. However, i also believe it’s up to us as individuals to work with what we have in a dedicated and creative manner. Saturn sq Sun person here.
No, I don’t think we choose our parents. I don’t think there was anything before, nor will there be anything afterwards, other than going back into the gigantic mixing pot of the universe.
Now is all we have.
Telling ourselves we “choose” our circumstances is a comfort akin to saying “it all happens for a reason” when something senseless happens. Nevertheless, I believe it. That being said, I would consider trading my problems with someone else…just for a week or so.
I wonder whether “the road not taken” is what timelines are?
I not only believe we choose our parents and our circumstances, but that when we accept that fact we can stop ragging on our families, dispense with the guilt and start working on making something of ourselves.
Saturn in 4th house has spoken…I mean written.
I like this. I’ve had challenges w/family but I think they will be healed; in the very least there’s a healthy-enough “agree to disagree” vibe, which I’ll take in the absence of warm ‘n’ fuzzy!
I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but some things I’m sure of in terms of myself. I know that several times in my life I have dreamed about events, or about people, that years later happened or showed up in my life just as I had dreamed.
I dreamed about my best friend and had her age, appearance, and country of origin, years before I ever met her.
Where did I get that information? I believe that I was born with it. I believe that some people and events are set before we get here, BUT how we handle life is completely up to us.
>>Telling ourselves we “choose” our circumstances is a comfort akin to saying “it all happens for a reason” when something senseless happens.>>
Charlotte – I agree. It is also akin to believing in heaven or more lives or the like. Makes us feel good.
But I have really thought about this deeply because I do have and have always had a life that is positively off the charts and I just really like being me. And I just could not possibly be me if I did not have the experiences I have had (and continue to have).
The thought of not being me… well no thank you!! I have a very strong sense of destiny – this is my life and by God, I am going to live it to the hilt… even though I will damned, damned glad when it’s over.
I agree with this, as well! Have often looked back and said, “OhhhhwelllwishI’dmaybedonedifferent” but really, I wouldn’t change where my heart/mind/soul are at now–I’ve done some work but yet more to do! Loves yez!
It seems commonplace in some circles these days to say that we chose our parents, made some kind of sacred contract… For some reason, all that doesn’t resonate with me. I don’t feel it… I am 37 now and my mother died 11 years ago. I would give almost anything to have her back. Did i choose a parent who would die suddenly? Why would a soul choose such tests? My example is one small example among many– The world is a harsh and lonely place 🙂
I suppose, someday, we’ll all know the answer to the question..
Life has a lot to do with the longing, and I realized I had to find a way to be whole while still longing
Well, I think we’re dealt a certain hand of cards, but there are certainly more than 52 in the deck and more than five players at the table. Part of destiny is luck, and the other part is how well you consciously play your hand. It helps to be nice to the dealer (karma).
I’m pretty sure I chose. The challenges suit me or force me to grow in ways I need to, and I’m working through a lot of the karmic detritus of the “past.” which I really need to. I have a lot of baggage, and it kind of overwhelmed me at first, but it needs to be dealt with, so deal with it I will.
I am uncomfortable w/the sentiment of choosing one’s lot. Suggesting that ppl who live through severe conditions like being gang raped by rebel Sudanese soldiers or being murdered because they’re gay or surviving Hiroshima ground zero until dying of radiation sickness a month later etc. wouldn’t want to trade in their suffering b/c it’s something they choose is a bit much. I think these events didn’t have to happen and there is no fated meaning in them (even though we can create meaning from them).
This kind of thinking when taken too far displaces responsibility for needless human suffering that has an obvious political/social root. Did the Iraqi people choose their current plight? OK, but I think most people would say US foreign policy had a significant role to play in shaping Iraqi history and that this history was not set in stone.
I don’t think we should get rid of all suffering. But I think the situations I’ve described are somehow different, more complex and can’t just be explained by individual soul choices or something to that effect. If people are truly choosing their circumstances, all I can say is there’s a lot of unnaturally BAD circumstances to go around these days and lucky to those few who chose to be born into a citizenship and social class where they can have access to most of the world’s resources.
I want to amend my position to say I believe (feel confident) that I chose my parents / circumstances but actually have no idea what anyone else did or didn’t do.
Isthmus, I can see where your objections come from regarding this idea, but the bad circumstances you speak of are often experiences of the collective that are individualized through narrative.
However I experience this life as an individual, I am still part of the Whole. I am the whole. There is no separation, for me, between myself and those who have abused me.
Of course, there are more people than not who have suffered more than comprehension allows, and I would never suggest that they should develop their way of thinking to conform to mine.
I wonder if Elsa/you guys think that recreation is an accurate idea. It kind of goes part and parcel with this. I factor it in and kind of think it logical partially because of the verifiable past life regressions of people like SuSu on xanga (if it’s okay to mention her). They wouldn’t be so vivid, agreed-upon, and applicable to your present life if there was nothing to them. This is something I think about astrology and intuition as well. Plus I find that when you lose faith in the inputs your intuition gives you, you start to lose it. What do you guys think?
By recreation I meant reincarnation. Hahaha, maybe that was some kind of slip.
I reread my comment and now I wish I’d picked my words much more carefully. I’m sorry for taking an inflammatory tone; I should have just said that the idea makes me uncomfortable b/c I believe many people would, with good reason, trade in their circumstances and a great deal of suffering is not fated – that it could have been prevented.
Kashmiri, I’m not sure I understand your point 100% (or even adequately) but I can see how on one level, all these linear cause and effect relationships, us-them binaries are problematic in discussing things like souls.
I didn’t think your original post was inflammatory. I thought you did a good job of pointing out the hard reality of the world, and how easy it is to think about “whether we chose our circumstances” when we can scrape extra food off our plates into the trash after dinner.
However, the idea of choosing your ORIGINS versus your entire life’s circumstances… that doesn’t absolve any responsibility to the collective. If we do pick our origins, maybe that makes us even more accountable for what we do with our lives.
I’ve spent a lot of time pondering free will vs. fate, and since I believe in both, that was the best answer I could come up with.
“However, the idea of choosing your ORIGINS versus your entire life’s circumstances… that doesn’t absolve any responsibility to the collective. If we do pick our origins, maybe that makes us even more accountable for what we do with our lives.”
Shaina, I agree 100% with what you wrote. It is obvious we (who are born into a region of abundance)have a greater responsibility to others.
While I think us and other entities do map out a lot of things, I think there must be some element of random chance to account for the unexpected. I.e. perhaps our life paths kind of mapped someone to be our partner but accepted that there might be choices made by someone along the line that would prevent that.
So I think our charts are also keyed to deal with this element of random chance so if there was suddenly a hostile take over of your country and it plunged into war my chart and perhaps moon would already have mapped out how it is going to respond to this situation.
My take on that is that we individually are infinite cosmic energy translated into a frequency (natal chart) that always was and forever will be attracting and repelling the same ARCHETYPES (parents naturally come first) in order to get more and more polished into the Primordial Mold of Human (ABRASAX or ABRAXAS). It, all of it, repeats ad infinitum, across eons of space and time. We are not alive, we are just remembering our way back to Adam (flawless DNA) before the “fall”. I could write pages on that but I don’t want to bore anyone 😀
I believe we do choose our parents and primary life challenges. Look to your IC for the “nurturing” parent and the MC for the “head of the household” or “absent” parent. My chart nails these placements.
For life challenges, the NN and SN are great indicators as well as general hard aspects in the natal chart.
Theres a general consensus this is 12th house stuff. I feel lucky to have a stellium here. Its a cheat sheet of what I need to learn in this life. Did I pick it out beforehand? Mmm…knowing my chart and how it ticks, I can definitely see a celestial checklist created as what I have left to do to move up higher with the universe.
My father died in 2003. His sun conjunct my moon, POF. My mother is 84 and fit as a fiddle her sun/moon/neo conjunct my pluto/uranus. Lots of problems with her. They didn’t get along.
“What do you think? Did you just land here or did you elect this life somewhere along the way?”
My thoughts and beliefs re: this have changed over the years.
At this point, I don’t “know” anymore. And it doesn’t matter to me anymore, one way or the other.
All I know is I am here. Things are as they are. Some of them I can control or influence. Others not at all, or very little, or only indirectly. And that too no longer matters. (Actually, that’s a lie. It does still matter to me, but I am working towards having it ALL not matter. Not quite there yet.)
I now take life 5 minutes at a time. Like the dude who rowed his way across the Atlantic this year. 5 minutes at a time. Doing what he could in those 5 minutes. Dealing with, or enjoying. Until he got to the other side.
I am REALLY REALLY looking forward to The Other Side. Going back home. This, here (planet Earth), has never felt like home.
We perhaps could me into this world in desire of particular lessons) situations which call for particular types of people or parents, so we don’t choose our EXACT parents but the attitudes, outlooks and personalities are in a way chosen for sure.
There’s a quote who I forget is the owner of that I like which says, “I have no qualms in life, I’m unafraid of death, I was never born, nor had I parents”.
I’d say I chose it and it’s been a long lesson to grow into learning how to deal with it so I can move on.
I think we chose our parents and circumstances to a certain extent to learn life lessons.