Being Seen As Knowing What You Are Talking About – Truth And Discourse

I just wrote a long, personal mail to my husband’s son in response to something he sent me. We are in an odd circumstance because our rising signs are just two degrees apart, as are our moons.  He is Libra is conjunct mine, etc. and as a result, we are often interested in the the same things at the same time.

Right now, we both have Saturn transiting the 9th house. I have the planet conjunct my Mars and Mercury and I am in court (9th) weighing what I publish (9th) and studying religion (9th) among other things. He has different planets in his 9th house but he’s doing somewhat related things.  For example he is in the middle of building a website he hopes will help others and we discuss that.

Today he sent me something interesting about the Oracle at Delphi. He mentioned priests and astrology and some other things along with it. This got my attention so I asked for his reference (I think he saw a documentary) so my husband and I could watch it too. We’re interested in him of course. Interested in what he is doing and what he is thinking.

Beyond that, I decided to tell him a rambling story (9th house) that has a lot of meaning so I typed it all out and when I was done I thought it should have a wider audience so I sent an unedited copy (full of my typos) to someone I felt would appreciate it because stories should travel, see?  9th house.

I ended my writing with a remark about priests, since he brought them up. I said:

“Last, I think priests are still pretty smart, by and large. As a worker, watching them work, they sure do a lot of it for people who people denigrate all the time.  Looks pretty selfless to me.

…six masses on Sunday.  That’s a lot to do – keep your countenance and make it meaningful for each shift that comes in.  Week after week after week after week…”

I got to thinking about this a few minutes later and I realized that I had offered my personal perspective (9th). Here:  “As a worker, watching them work…”

I think this is what is missing from what a lot of people offer up as conversation or discourse. They tell you what they heard that someone else thought.  They tell you what it is polite to say or what most people say or what their parents said to say, without ever running anything through their own independent filter.

This is a big piece to leave out.  Basically, it’s hard to be seen as knowing what you are talking about when there is no “YOU” about it.

I remember, HQ, telling me how he had worked through a problem that I was having.  He described his process and the (effective) solution he finally came up with. That’s meat, see? Real, tangible value.

Do you share your personal perspective or do you just share?




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Being Seen As Knowing What You Are Talking About – Truth And Discourse — 22 Comments

  1. Hmmmm great question.

    I have 5th House Mercury sq. 8th House Saturn in Leo and really don’t always feel comfortable bringing ‘me’ into it. I wish it wasn’t this way.

    Speaking about objectivity vs. subjectivity, I sometimes feel like unless I preface an argument with ‘me’ I won’t be heard….and I often just want privacy. I want to talk about something without revealing too much. I like to talk about things in abstract as well as pointed terms (Mercury opp. Uranus). It’s a quandary.

    I have also felt at times that I am appropriating something, that I don’t know is mine (thinking of knowledge specifically, not intellectual property).

    Eg.I had learned it and believed in it but hadn’t yet figured out a way to articulate how I knew myself to be part of the picture. I struggle to communicate this kind of thing, frequently.

    I think some of these ideas I have are linked to one another (and rooted in my Saturn-based insecurities) but I’d like to think I’m not mindless, just gathering courage to try and be heard:)

  2. I feel like that’s all I do!! I live to share my personal experience, relate it to formal teachings that have been passed onto me, and hope that this sharing helps people on their path to healing in any way large or small…

  3. I just hear a lot of people repeating other people’s ideas, preaching them even. It becomes obvious they have not developed their own ideas which actually takes effort.

    The example on the priests is very personal which is what makes it compelling. I have no idea what other people see or think when they hear “priest”. I am looking at a priest from my perspective which is different than yours. Or maybe it is similar! But we will never know if you have not thought anything through, independently.

    That thing I quoted was part of a long email that started when I was about 8 and ended in the current. There is a human being revealed as I write and I got feedback, yanno.

    “Sounds like this in your life, influenced that and it reminds me of my dad, who I think was influenced by X…”

    See, that is discourse.

    It is not necessary to agree. The value is in being human.

    I also liked that he wrote, “I used to think this but now I think this…” Growth, see?

    Our minds (Mercury) and our beliefs (9th) mature over the years as we gain experience – hopefully. I realize some people are stuck.

    I love discussion and exchange of energy with people who have developed themselves throughout their lives. They have the ability to take raw material and make something of it. Interpret it in their own way.

    It’s like being in art class. Everyone is given the same materials and as children, most will copy the obviously talented person in the class, not trusting their own ability.

    This is something to outgrow.

  4. I agree this is something to outgrow. Also that experiences optimally help in the maturation of belief. Sometimes I’m just worried about being seen as the Saggie big mouth (Sag ASC), LOL

  5. Yes, CArRiE. I’ll posit things with “Speaking for myself, I ______.” or similar…

    Also, I notice that I usually take a moment to consider and choose between, “I think x; I feel x; I believe x.”

    (ps: I think my 1st comment is stuck in black hole of calcutta ;D )

  6. Well I remember thinking the same thing about the priests at my Catholic school. Two Masses a week for middle schoolers! I remember empathizing with Father Kevin and Father Richard, believing in my naive heart that no holy man could possibly be content in such a spiritually impotent life. Then I learned that priests do not take a vow of poverty, then I saw Father Richard’s sleek black Cadillac.

    • Separate but related, I had a client yesterday with Mars conjunct Mercury in the 9th house, same as I have but a later degree. She is involved in 2 court case coming up in the next month. I went to court, yesterday. It’s really interesting watching life…

  7. Yes it is! When I was a waitress I would see these couples who would sit and have the meal-from drinks to appetizers to entrees to more drinks-in silence. Can you imagine having nothing at all to say to the person sitting across from you?!

  8. I just vented to a male friend in a long email. We have a difference of opinion, and I explained, in detail, why I felt like I do. Instead of saying “Yeah, I can understand why you feel that way” I got a “we’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.” Like I’m still wrong for having the feelings I do. When I open myself up and get a lame response like that, it’s time for me to freeze him out for a while. That was a no-thought answer and it bores me. I need some space from him now. LOL

  9. Both, although I usually don’t like bringing ‘me’ into it either. I wonder if that’s at least partially my Saturn square Mercury, and Scorpio ascendant.

    I love “testimonials”, though. I love to read about what worked for others, and I think that’s what I really love about a site called 43 Things (not that it’s so busy anymore), as well as the way people share here. They write things out, sometimes receive help/advice from others, or just come to some sort of realization as they’ve written – I miss my journal, and need to get back to it, for that reason.

  10. Oh, I almost added something about confidence, but didn’t want to lump that in with anyone else who might just be private. Confidence is my biggest issue.

  11. “I just hear a lot of people repeating other people’s ideas, preaching them even”

    I’d like to know why that is, frankly. I’m pretty absorbent and I can’t say that I haven’t been swayed or influenced by what others think. But I definitely have my own thoughts and conclusions that I share.

    When did we (as a group) stop thinking for ourselves?

  12. I like to think I share my personal perspective. When I talk to people I like to clue them in on where I’m coming from, why I think the way that I do, because it’s often different from their experience.
    That’s what makes it interesting, in my opinion. (See?? I just did it right <—- there! *laughs*)

    Hearing the conclusion without knowing how one got there isn't that helpful to someone who wants both to connect to others and to think about things. Opening up the dialogue as to why that conclusion was reached is a much broader conversation with farther-reaching consequences. There’s more opportunity to learn from it and apply it to your own life (if not always in the same way).

    My problem comes in sideways on this, though. I say, “Because the sky is blue, I think X and Y.” And other people say, “WHAT?!? They sky isn’t purple!”
    Um…? *dimples and shrugs* I don’t know what to do with that when it happens. Do I keep trying to be heard or just clam up?

    Lately I’ve been choosing to clam up. I don’t find it very satisfying, though. I feel invalidated by this development.
    I have Merc-Neptune contacts natally and a Merc-Neptune transit currently — though this started hardcore when Saturn conjuncted my Mercury right before it entered Virgo a few years ago. :/

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