The last time I wrote about Elisabeth Fritzl, there was a lot of outrage because I said I could relate to her experience. Well I can relate to her experience, even if you have never heard of me.
I am prompted to write about her from an astrological perspective because everything I can find on the interest in regards to her chart is incorrect. Astrologers are using, April 8, 1966 as her birth date when all sources say her birthday is April 6, 1966. I don’t know how this error was made.
The astrologer(s) write about her Moon conjunct Neptune in Scorpio which is logical enough seeing as she was imprisoned (Neptune) in her home (Moon) for sex (Scorpio) but I don’t think this correct. It can’t be correct if she were born on the 6th, rather than the 8th.
April 6, 1966 was an interesting day as both Venus and the Moon changed signs. If Elisabeth was born early the day, she would have a Libra Moon and Venus in Aquarius. If born later she would have a Scorpio Moon with Venus in Pisces.
I think most astrologers would opt for the latter as Scorpio is associated with sex and taboo, Venus in Pisces can be seen as sacrifice and imprisonment but I am not at all convinced.
Josef Fritzl took his daughter as a quasi-wife when she was 11 years old. Having studied astrology for more than 40 years at this point, I can tell you that people with Libra become partnered very easily.
Try not to have a conniption fit over what I am saying. I am aware the level of sickness here, I am just telling you that Libra (and this includes children) tend to wind up partnered in some form. Could be a childhood best friend but often enough it is one of the parents who pals around with the kid and says things like, “My daughter / son is my best friend”. Due this, I could nor swear by the Scorpio Moon. Sorry but I have just seen this too many times.
It does seem likely that Elisabeth would have significant placements in the 12th house (prison), most likely the Sun or the Moon. With the Sun in 12th, she’d live (shine) in a prison, Moon in the 12th she might be imprisoned in the home, her emotions locked up, her children, etc.
I looked at both charts and could argue for either scenario though I slightly favor the Libra Moon chart with the Sun and Mars in the 12th. This chart (click to see full size) puts Uranus and Pluto in the 5th which does describe her children well enough and Venus is Aquarius rather than Pisces.
Venus in Aquarius indicates unusual relationships and her victimization is very well described by the conjunction of Saturn and Chiron in Pisces so that angle is covered. We also have an Aries rising redhead, perhaps?
The chart with the 12th house Moon (in Scorpio) also has merit. It puts Neptune conjunct the ascendant and Pluto and Uranus in the 10th to represent the father. What it lacks is a signature that spells “control” which would be better shown by the Moon and angles in Cardinal signs. Hard to say this is a life where control is not an issue. I see that Saturn is square Jupiter which would restrict freedom but it hardly seems enough.
Now it is possible (probable) she transcended in her prison. She’d have almost had to in order to survive. I understand she is writing a book and if this is the case, I will most definitely be reading it as it will likely settle these question.
Here is an approximated Libra Moon chart
Here is the approximated Scorpio moon chart.
Which chart do you prefer and why?
The second chart echos some of my natal placements. That Neptune on the Ascendant as well as Pluto/Uranus conjunct the MC speaks to me quite loudly. Unusual fates. I mean she was there in full view of everyone if they just looked, but no one saw her.
Oh and that Saturn at the end of the fourth…not a pleasant placement at all.
I get what yer saying–
YES¡ sun at 12 house
venus in aquarius
Capricorn MidHeaven 9 house (jupiter-saturno) but no planets
she went out, maybe she was free in some way on her mind or soul-spirit?
spirit controling things (matter) ????
yes, but the sun was not near mercury
that´s why her father put her in total obscurity
now she is under the sun, at last her hands are free.
I’m gonna go with the Libra moon chart. It just echo’s alot more with what happened with her.Pluto/uranus in the 5th. Childbirth with no medical help. All 7 children. Sun in the 12th house – she survived life in a basement for 24 years.
Saturn in the 11th conjunct chiron in pisces. Socially extinct earlier and now doing a good job with the healing. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/whatever-became-of-elisabeth-fritzl-1924645.html
“The last time I wrote about Elisabeth Fritzl, there was a lot of outrage because I said I could relate to her experience. ”
Anyone who doubts that, really needs to get a clue!
“The fact is all we can do is speculate what she thinks and how she feels and the chance we would be correct in our assumptions or with our blind guesses is just about 0%.”
What is so wrong or shocking about relating to her in this way?
I mean, like, copping to having unusual experience as well. Why were people so weirded out when you said you had that in common?
I have no explanation for “people”, Dina. People are individuals so you would have to quiz each of them.
yes, a magic girl
people are evil when see angels
Which chart do you prefer and why?
Of the two I’d pick the Scorpio moon chart. I am with Togi about the Neptune on the ASC making her invisible (or a hologram?). I’d go further and point out that the Scorpio moon chart puts Mercury/Sun/Mars/Saturn (painful childbirth?) all around the fifth house with Jupiter ruling the house via Pisces. Additionally the second chart would put fertile signs on the 1st, 5th, 7th and 9th houses. Taking all that together with a Scorpio moon that sure seems likely to be close match for someone who had seven children. Extra bonus, the 12th house ruler is Venus which is in the 4th, so she’d tend to experience the 12th house through the home.
In contrast, the first chart has all barren (masculine) signs on the the 1st/5th/7th/9th house cusps. Meanwhile Uranus and Pluto in the fifth should tend to deny or destroy children. Taken together with a Libra moon that doesn’t add up to seven kids in my book. Otherwise I’d tend to side with you and favor the sun and mars for the loaded 12th. But a (fertile) Scorpio moon in the 12th seems to fit her pretty well. She didn’t have any choice about being ‘partnered’ up there.
[‘I’m curious to see, now.’]
WHo’s having a conniption? I can relate to her too and can totally relate to the theme of imprisonment and lots of other stuff too in that case.
I’m leaning towarsd the Scorpio moon chart, because Neptune has to be active to the point of her doubting whether she really even existed. Neptune plus the SN on the ascendant could completely dissolve the personality. With the moon in Scorpio there’s that do or die loyalty also that gets us involved with dreadful power struggles sometimes, really locked into emotional battle with various reptiles, that seems apt. But Pluto is the planet that would pick up the persephone theme and that’s elevated and it’s also the father, conjunct uranus in the tenth house. That was a long conjunction, I have it too, but not in the tenth house — the dad is batty.
Sun in the fifth conjunct mars makes sense; her life was about her children.
I like that chart because there had to be something in this woman that allowed him to get compliance from her. Neptune, that sacrficing aspect would make tons of sense being angular — sacrficing her personhood. She’s sacrificing her personhood for the sun/mars fifth; her story elevates the controlling psychotic father. Yknow?
I can relate to this. Sure doesn’t mean I can speak for her.
If you dropped my pin on the map and used a compass, there would be lots of other pins very close by that had stories that overlapped this during my childhood, in my neighborhood. Child held prisoner in a basement wearing shock collar. Child tied to a tree w/a chain and fed dry rolled oats. Children who witnessed parental sex in a religious context. STRANGE families.
My novice self would go w/the Libra Moon. My exp. is w/Neptune conj. Asc. in scorpio, Venus in Scorpio, but Libra 12th house moon. I was enmeshed as hell with my mother, and based on what I saw around me, I totally get how the bizarre and the sick can seem to be perfectly regular and normal, esp. in the context of a partnership-bound personality (chart).
Puts yet another spin on my anti-partner adulthood… when it gets laid on a child, it has a way of twisting the fabric of a person’s future.
I have a strong leaning/feeling toward the Libra Moon chart but possibly at 4:30AM, putting her ascendant around 12° Pisces, Venus in the 12th house, and the Libra Moon along with Pluto & Uranus in the seventh house. This would also put her T-square in mutable signs and the apex in the 4th house; the “solution” to the T-square would be Neptune in Scorpio in the 8th house. (Would the Midheaven turn the T-square into a Grand Cross, or does the aspecting element have to be a planet?)
So I can tell you those ‘technical’ things but I have no idea how to begin to describe what they mean situationally, so I’ll try to tell you somewhat how I see those working out in her personality. She’s a strong character (Sun & Mars conjunct in Aries in the 1st house), asserting herself first by running away from home and then by standing up to her father before he enslaved her (probably because he wanted to rape her again and she refused), but she is also sensitive and can be reserved (Ascendant and Saturn in Pisces) as well as compassionate, possibly seen as a weakling (Venus in 12th house – which can denote secret love affairs and self-sacrifice). It makes sense to me that the apex would be in the 4th house – tension being within the family, especially toward her mother (after her release, even though it’s better now). All of the planets in the t-square are in mutable (passive) signs, and the apex/tension is in an air sign pointing to mental and/or relationship oriented challenges or actions that one has to overcome, with Jupiter’s energy being scattered, which I see as her hope being diffused (generally leads to escapism). I see the opposite house of her apex (10th in Sagittarius), which is supposed to be the route of transformation, as well as the grand trine in air signs being uplifted with the writing of her book.
That’s my very amateur guess.
I strongly think that both her father and his mother were likely sociopaths (it’s genetic, ya know), which makes me wonder about her six siblings.
I doubt the scorpio moon is correct for her as it makes childbirth very difficult with muchcomplication for the mother and under her set up, (house basement) I wonder??? scorpio and sex is so *ucking over rated over done. try again.
I don’t have an opinion about one chart or the other — although a gut feeling told me Libra chart I can’t back it up. Just came back to this thread to say that this post is an example of WHY I read your blog (referencing the question you asked a couple days ago).
Ref moonpluto’s last comment – I was looking for that thread earlier today and couldn’t find it – have you pulled it Elsa?
I can’t speak to the subject of the thread by judging the relative charts, but my gut feeling would be sun Libra as you’d need to be a tremendously ‘balanced’ person to survive what this poor woman survived and emerge relatively sane!
What does this site mean to you? Why do you come here?
@Blessed – I virtually never pull a post off this blog. It was a commitment I made when I first launched here because I used to take my whole (original) blog down as a matter of routine when I would get hurt or feel injured in some way.
I have removed some posts but for extreme things like once I posted something my husband said people would readily torture me to know or find out so…
Other than that type stuff, it is all here.
People need to stop assuming that victims are healthy people who were just there by physical coersion alone.
Very little abuse is from random strangers or successfully committed by physical force. The other 99.99% of abuse requires the victim to be groomed. Everyone is groomed to some degree.
This woman probably had very serious sexual abuse grooming from the moment she was born female. I would wager she herself is incestuous and disturbed thanks to that raising, and her father probably also got that way by being raised to it, etc. This shit runs in families, it’s not a black sheep. Even if you put raising aside, it’s probably in their DNA itself.
Thanks Elsa – and I salute your courage!
A bit harsh, Hami. I think ‘Stockhausen Syndrome’ is at work here – the human (perhaps esp the female) craves relationship. And when the abnormal is normal in your environment, all bets are off
I vote for the Scorpip Moon chart for several reasons. 1) I can relate. My father molested me and my sisters. He and my mother kept this secret by isolating us from the public and from each other. Conquer and divide. I have Moon/Neptune/Venus conjunct in the 1st house and felt a deep loyalty to my family. I had actually blocked the abuses but was acting them ( abuses ) out ( Leo on the Midheaven ) with my siblings. This nearly cost me my life at the age of 10.
2) Pluto in the 10th house of reputation in opposition to her Mercury and Saturn in Pisces. This just screams mind control by an “authority” figure. Saturn naturally rules the 10th and she has Saturn in the 4th making an aspect to Pluto! Control, control, control. Secrets and taboos are the domain of Pluto, I do not think there anything more taboo than bearing your father’s children.
Jupiter in the 8th house of sex and death in the sign of the “Twins”. Mutable energy that allows her to just “go with the flow”. Jupiter takes this energy and slingshots it over the Moon. Jupiter Square Venus indicates excess. Mercury in Pisces Square Jupiter in Gemini can mean she is easily deluded. Also, note Taurus on her Descendent. Security and loyalty through partnership is premium.
I know that we plan our future lives for optimum growth but I just cannot believe that this kind of “experience” is at all necessary.
Honestly, I want to shoot these kinds of people but I know that one can never “kill” hate or love….merely the embodiment of it. It is pointless to take these people out as they will only return to perhaps do it all over again.
We desperately need to evolve so that we can cure this evil.
“I doubt the scorpio moon is correct for her as it makes childbirth very difficult with muchcomplication for the mother and under her set up, (house basement) I wonder??? scorpio and sex is so *ucking over rated over done. try again.”
Idk, miki. She has Aries Sun and Mars ( Scorpio Chart ) in the house of children so this is a “pioneer” lady where childbirth is concerned. She can rough it like no one else can. I can very well see that she could have been subjected to very primitive conditions regarding the creation of offspring.
It would have taken a tremendous amount of courage to withstand such horrible conditions. Just a thought.
Elsa, do we have the perps information? I’d hazard to say that if she had a water Moon placement, and he had a Water Moon or Sun as well, then this would definitely increase the odds of multiple births. I’m going to go check right now.
The chart that I found has Fritzl with an Aries Sun and Cancer Moon. Birth time is unknown so not accurate. Here it is;
libra moon martyr complex. Opp, self aries also all the 11hs pisces planets, merc. venus,saturn chrion opp 5th hs virgo pluto and uranius. I think everyday she did it for her children she told herself.
I follow vedic and have my sun moon mars mercury and neptune in scorpio 12th house. Life feels like a prison for me. Physical abuse was there and humiliation. Even marriage against wishes but still living strong and trying to give best life to my only son for whom i live. Constant state of depression. Lost whole birth family recently in just a year. Sorry western chart could never explain my life correctly and just confused me but now i have clarity
the more i learn about libra placements, the more i believe libra moon is more likely. scorpio would most likely be more treacherous and find ways to escape and wont trust the father to even go into the basement. It’s maybe because libra has forgiving tones, and the indecision is terrible. it keeps weighing back and forth.