Is Bitterness Shown In A Natal Chart?

bitter drunkAnger -> Hate -> Bitterness

Is that that it goes?

I’m not a bitter person, by nature. It’s easy for me to forgive and move on.  If there is an astrological signature for bitterness, I don’t have it.

I lack insight in this area, but I have curiosity.

Are you a bitter person? Can you see this in your chart?

 


Comments

Is Bitterness Shown In A Natal Chart? — 58 Comments

  1. No, I’m not a bitter person. Don’t quite know the signature, but I think the antidote to bitterness is forgiveness. So…anyone who has trouble forgiving, someone with a weak Neptune? I’m not sure.

    • I can relate to your statement about ‘forgiveness’ I am not a bitter person either; my mother on the other hand is the most bitter person I know, and I truly believe it is because she refuses to forgive firstly herself. Revenge has always been her choice of attitude when she feels that she has been wronged. It is sad, since it has cost her any relationship with her extended family and she is old and frail and ill now.

  2. I’d say it’s more like Anger, Bitterness, Hate. Hate is fossilized bitterness. With my Scorp, yes I can hold a grudge, with the opposite positive side that if I like you it’s hard to destroy that. I tend towards forgiveness for family and friends though. Plus with time I just don’t care. But there are a few things I can feel bitter about in a general way and I don’t give a break to others where I never received a break and should have. What can I say, my character is not perfect, lol. 🙂

  3. I’ve associated bitterness with Saturn. That aspect of the myth where Saturn ate his own children so they wouldn’t become a threat to him. Suspect there are lots of possible signatures thinking of people I’ve known who were bitter-but it’s all about what you do with the energy isn’t it? Mars/Saturn. Chiron sq sun. Moon in hard aspect to Saturn. Am I bitter? I don’t think so; it’s not a static thing. I see it there though, a possibility. I’ve had to work at letting the water flow.

  4. Not all, depends on your conditioning, but
    Mars in Cancer – they can steam themselves into hatred and bitterness and throw in a mix of Virgo (who has an edge anyway) or a Virgo moon.

    • Yup I hear ya
      I try not to be bitter but my Mars in Cancer is tough.I would prefer to turn my bitterness outwards to those that caused it but its too exhausting to keep it up. I just amputate.

  5. The problem with not knowing bitterness and being overly forgiving, besides being preyed upon by every narcissist within a 100 mile radius, is that eventually the universe decides it is time for you to ‘get’ what everyone else has been experiencing for so long. And it sucks. And it hits like an earthquake followed by a tsunami, which is then followed by a tornado or 10. It’s like being lost at see and forever being battered by the elements and storm after storm after storm. Strong people get good, hard and long life lessons so we have no excuses after the fact for repeating our bad life choices. By far, being bitter is the ugliest emotion I have ever dealt with. I have no idea why so many people choose to wallow in this destructive, time wasting state of mind. It took me 45 of my 47 years to experience ‘bitterness’ and true ‘animosity.’ I would have been happy to not ever go through it though. Blek.

  6. My father was the most bitter and venomous person I have ever known. He was a truly toxic person and wanted to bring down everyone down with him also.

    The astrology? He had an Aquarius stellium, maybe it’s the fixed energy in his chart! The Aquarius stellium was in the sixth house though and he grew sicker by just refusing to calm down (or stop worrying) or make life harder for himself. He had the family trait of Saturn in the 10th house so he reaped his actions and it was like watching a ship go down, and knowing the ship deserved it.

    By the time he turned 65 he realized he wasted his life rebelling (Aquarius) against everything then took it out on me, and my siblings.

    So I guess bitterness is partly a choice and your experiences. It took 65 years (he’s 71 now) but his past life choices caught up with him.

  7. I feel bad for him sometimes, but it was hard because he was so difficult to be around. I think he could have decreased his physical illness by a good percentage had he not been so hard-headed.

    He couldn’t work so I think that made him feel emasculated (understandable) but no one in the family was making fun of him. Most people outside the family didn’t make fun of him but Jesus, I have never seen so much bitterness and anger in a person. I understand men need to feel like men but he had decades and many chances to make something of himself so it was really hard to find an excuse for him.

    • @fishvirgin, ive heard soooo many stories of men who turn handicap or in a wheel chair, or just disabled, or can’t find a job or successful in that field that they turn into a bitter old man. that does make sense of it being 10th/11th house kind of thing, where career/job is important, but something was inflicted like what happened. Instead of turning it into something positive, they turned it into something negative. It’s hard for alot of people, they can never get out of the hole they buried themselves in. Some Saturnian men turn out really good though, like Abraham Lincoln. He was a Capricorn moon with Aquarius Sun, so there’s some hope with some Saturnian men….but it is very difficult situation. Sorry to hear about your father like that.

  8. I would agree that bitterness is a pessimistic, Saturnian (and fixed!) energy. I don’t have it, but I’ve got Jupiter in Capricorn. I think it’s funny when things are horrible …

  9. It feels like bitter people find some sort of happiness (?), contentment in being bitter. No matter what you say to them, they’re always so negative. Depending on the person, sometimes I feel like rubbing their noses in their own bitterness (well, sometimes I do…). Otherwise, I just stay away from them. Energy suckers.

    • In my perspective, it is protection against taking it out on themselves. It allows them to intellectualize, judge others and life for their lack. It is their protection against insecurity and lack, wondering if maybe its their fault. To say ‘well if you don’t like me f all of you! You’re clearly (shallow/have no taste, etc.)’ It is a posture that for a moment relieves their self hatred. I think the negativity perpetuates because they have this theory about life that they keep getting the short end of the stick because others are sooo whatever. Personally, having others try to logically convince me out of this story makes me feel ‘minimized’ or gaslit, even when they point out confirmation bias or say ‘cheer up ol buddy ol pal, there is a silver lining.’ And I go ‘that’s not enough!! Why can’t the whole cloud be silver??’ Anyway, I think bitter people are very hurt and sensitive. Rubbing their noses in it is mean. Its best not to be friends with them if their parasitic emotional needs are too much

    • In my perspective, it is protection against taking it out on themselves. It allows them to intellectualize, judge others and life for their lack. It is their protection against insecurity and lack, wondering if maybe its their fault. To say ‘well if you don’t like me f all of you! You’re clearly (shallow/have no taste, etc.)’ It is a posture that for a moment relieves their self hatred. I think the negativity perpetuates because they have this theory about life that they keep getting the short end of the stick because others are sooo whatever. Personally, having others try to logically convince me out of this story makes me feel ‘minimized’ or gaslit, even when they point out confirmation bias or say ‘cheer up ol buddy ol pal, there is a silver lining.’ And I go ‘that’s not enough!! Why can’t the whole cloud be silver??’ Anyway, I think bitter people are very hurt and sensitive. Rubbing their noses in it is mean. Its best not to be friends with them if their parasitic emotional needs are too much

    • I think its a defensive posture to stave off insecurity, self loathing, or a sober self assessment. To just blame everything and everyone else for their lack of success and lash out. It dulls the pain, allows you to externalize, intellectualize, and judge your situation as an impartial party. Like it’s some homily where the good guy gets stiffed. But its only temporary relief for sad, loneliness and deep insecurity. I don’t think that someone should be friends with a bitter person if they can’t handle it. I think ‘rubbing their noses in it’ is insensitive, but I get that bitter negative people are annoying and suck out attention and positivity. I also believe they’re sensitive and hurt. If someone feels their energy taxed by a bitter person, they definitely deserve to get away.

  10. I think my Pluto caused me a bitter person. I try to forgive, but can’t. Anger Anger and Anger .. killing me.
    I have Sun conjunct Pluto in Virgo.
    Moon in Scorpio.
    Mars (in 8th house) square Sun and Pluto.

  11. I have little experience with people who are bitter, but when I do meet someone like this, I always feel that need serious help. Like it would be very hard to overcome.

    Off the top of my head, I can only think of a couple of people who overcame their bitterness. In both cases, the people (they were both men) had a near death experience.

    I suppose a person might be helped by therapy, but I’m not sure bitter people go to therapy.

  12. My ex wallows in bitterness. Aquarius sun, fixed, controlling. It fuels him. It keeps him in control. He’s made a lifetime of choices to blame, compare, & hoard. He has had the most beautiful wife and family placed before him, begging for his heart to open, and he will only allow it for the briefest moments before he snaps it shut again. Therapy is useless, he manipulates the system. I most often wish that a small asteroid would strike him in the head enough to jar lose his barriers but not really hurt him. My only choice is to keep my distance, as mad dogs bite.

  13. As for me? I sometimes say I am too shallow to suffer indefinitely, or maybe too lazy. It takes a lot of energy to hold grudges and carry them around, feed the fire, stoke it. I have a lot of Leo in my chart, Virgo sun. It’s a choice to turn away from bitterness. I agree with the poster above that one can be too forgiving and that bitterness can serve as armor and protection. And a wall. And all of that keeps the focus on something besides me, and moving forward. When I feel bitterness creeping in it’s a discipline to feel it, recognize it’s power and potential to carry me off with it, and turn in the direct I want to go, not where bitterness wants to cart me off to.

  14. Psychedelic substances like mushrooms, DMT or Ibogaine can be taken in extreme cases… used with caution, they can help with bitterness, addictions, or any negative ingrained behavior.
    I think the effect of this would be comparable to a near-death experience, hopefully without the trauma.

  15. i know nothing about the astrology of this, but i would like to say a couple of words against forgiveness because i seriously dislike the concept. i have been through a lot of real shit in my life, and some of it has been caused by other people, so i have had some experience with things that people may try to forgive.
    i never try to forgive, i don’t know how it’s done and i think it’s a waste of time and willpower. most of the times those things take care of themselves, so that after a while, after several years, after decades sometimes, they don’t bother me. i don’t think that forgiveness should be on anyone’s to-do list, because in general i don’t think we have that much power over our psyches.
    emotions are so fluid for a lot of people. i don’t know about men, but my own thoughts can change dramatically due to ovulation or pms. and those are thoughts! feelings, emotions are even more fluid (and yes, i have a lot of water in my chart). i don’t try to not hold grudges, in fact, i secretly, silently enjoy suffering and telling myself a story about how the other person has been so horrible etc., but after a while this story gets very boring and doesn’t touch me anymore. when the situation has really upset me i like being bitter for an evening or two (more than trying to regain equilibrium). i think i never, not in the most terrible circumstances made it last more than a week. it’s just too boring and i can’t stand being bored.

  16. Mars is going through my 12th House right now, and have been experiencing a lot of envy towards my friends who are doing well, moving into big expensive properties, and becoming successful at things they enjoy.
    I am finding it hard to feel pleased for them. I actually feel angry about it! I don’t like feeling this way but I am just observing it about me. They have no idea I feel like this, but its evident my old group and I are moving away from each other exponentially. It’s also about popularity, not being part of a circle any more and feeling more isolated.
    I am struggling with new projects and trying to make money independently and although I am starting to see a few chinks of light, I feel like I am at the back of a very long race.
    I dont feel these feelings are long-term, more a kind of growing phase, a bit teenage angst! I have to grit my teeth a bit and pretend I am happy for them when I’m not, really.

    But outside of that I think bitterness is to do with feeling thwarted ambition wise, and some imagined or real fear of others looking down on you. It’s a kind of fighting back. I’m also remembering Walter White in Breaking Bad and his feeling of intense bitterness at his former colleagues, he so brilliantly portrays the emotion.
    So there is a ‘poor me’ attitude going on at the moment. I am not expecting to make anyone pay, am accepting it and it is helping me to see that my ambitions need to come true. It’s odd because true freedom is about letting go of measuring yourself against others, and I have never really cared about others success before.

    I was watching The Godfather the other night, the most striking thing is the change in Al Pacino is after his wife is killed. His last chance of happiness is taken away. He becomes cold, devilish and devoid of real warmth. I don’t know if that is bitterness but he has decided that revenge and success are paramount. Maybe that’s when bitterness changes from a passing emotion to something embedded like a seam in your persona.

  17. Concur with @eliza and @stargirl.

    My observations are harsh mars-saturn contacts combined with a self-pity-party attitude.

    Bitterness is just anger that is held onto long past its usefullness.

    The focus is so completely on self and the perceived wrongs suffered – really, more than a touch of narcissism.

  18. My Ex Girlfried is full of hate, bitterness and a destructive abuser. Moon conjunct Pluto in Libra, both in square to Saturn in House 10 and Cancer. MC on Algol. Keep the world clean of this female psychopaths.

  19. Mars Square Saturn in Scorpio. I don’t think anyone can be anymore bitter than that! I have that and have become bitter at times just be remembering personal injustices that have happened to me even when I was a child…

    The only way to win against bitterness and anger is transcendence. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be? Could there be a reason for my unluck? Something better to come?

    I think one of the best life lessons is to redirect frustrated passions into alignment with the true self.

  20. In The States, we have an overly sweet diet. Bitter is the flavor that, when incorporated in the diet, awakens the palate to more subtle sweet flavors and exposes/ counters the cloying nature of overly sweet dishes.
    It’s interesting to me to think about how we, using the English language, use this word to define someone that has become hardened by holding grudges. The negative connotation in “bitter” is not just attached to the food, then. When, to a flavor balanced palate and diet, bitter is essential. I find the same works emotionally. It is not that we must hold grudges to protect ourselves. It is just important to allow experiences to shape our perception of reality, to hone it in order to better match the world we are truly living in so that we can be efficient in responsibly carrying out our lives.
    I love honoring Saturn. I should be bitter by now with what I’ve seen (Scorpio North Node!). But, I also feel protected by those limits, and allow my experiences to restructure my perception, and therefore continue to refine and hone my sense of what is now and true and real.
    Bitter is necessary. Too much bitter is no good, but so is too much sweet. I also find, as I age, that every experience I have is a rich full spectrum of emotions. Nothing is purely good or bad or sweet. It is always a mixture of bitter and sweet, often feeling joy, sadness, relief and pain all at the same time.

  21. I think Saturn opposing the Sun (10th to the 4th) can inhibit some of the more outgoing and magnanimous generosity inherent to the Sun. I’m happy at home but I put on a more cynical and taciturn face in my career area. I’m more envious of others’ career gains.

  22. I don’t feel bitter and hope I never will. When I see bitter people I think it’s terrible because it can ruin all joys. (I mean, one terrible thing occurs, and it can put a pall on everything else someone’s life. It can turn into a stance, too.)
    I get the impression there is more bitterness as people get older, whether because more things happened to them over time, or whether because at that time some things can no longer be reversed or modified – too late.
    It’s difficult to try to unravel the difference between anger, sadness, disappointment, regret, feeling of injustice and many other bad feelings and the specific “taste” of bitterness. What makes somme people go bitter while others who suffer as much or more do not?
    The narcissistic aspect seems plausible (but not the only ingredient, not all bitter people are narcissists I think). But more likely fixed signs and locked dynamics of some squares keep the energy blocked, fixated on the painful thoughts.
    The pessimistic Saturn probably doesn’t help, but I think Pluto in bad aspects could be a pretty destructive, deep and dark.

    • Speaking as someone more cardinal, with hard aspects to the 12th house, I would say that I have seen cardinal people bitter too. I know I keep pushing into the same circumstances and settings that make me feel bitter and repeating the same situations, pushing against others challenging them to react differently than they do. They don’t respond to this preemptive aggression well and sometimes say stuff to me that’s meaner than if I’d done nothing and just taken it. (I got mad at three drunk guys for taking up the whole sidewalk in dominant poses arms akimbo and went by them, when they protested angrily like only the douchey do, I ranted a bit to then about their entitlement. They responded by calling me ‘fat, disgusting, and unmarried.’ This really hurt. I told my mom, they laughed and congratulated each other. I cried for 10 blocks and felt like I finally heard the real reason why people ignored me.)

  23. I’m not sure of the accurate definition of being bitter, but the wonderful Maron has said many insightful things about it. He says “Always remember, bitterness is always just amplified self-pity.” Bitter is the guy who wanted something and couldnt get it and was sad then hopeful then angry then bitter then sad then bitter. I think I’m bitter, I don’t think hate is the step to bitterness per set. I find bitterness to be a sympathetic emotion, a lonely defeated one. One that many comedians feel. Bitterness you share with a friend flying on the strength of their own polyanna is mistaken.
    For me the journey was Passive Aggression – anger/aggression – assertiveness – forgiveness – aggression – bitterness – passive aggression. I had a mars square transit that brought this out. Some also say bitterness comes when you feel there’s injustice, something you ‘should’ get.
    Like I feel like dudes write me off because they’re superficial.. Not maybe because I don’t try hard enough or look for people ‘out of my league’ or that I don’t bend to beauty standards and am myself crazy superficial. I write off a lot of people based on how they look or what I assume about them. People say I’m too inexperienced to be bitter. Is it that I’m angry at some guys that they don’t like me so I hate them? Not entirely sure.
    What about the people who are bitter about their lack of professional success I.e. screenwriters? Are they angry or hateful toward all of Hollywood? Not sure. I think bitterness is sadness with a defensive lashing out. Lashing out or placing the blame externally rather than thinking the blame lies with us relieves the tension of self dislike or maybe prevents us from realizing we don’t have ‘it’ or should change. If I were to look at what brought Maron out of his bitterness (which is both wrapped up in having an outsized ego and feeling entitled), the other side of the coin is humility. Which I guess comes when you honestly assess yourself and your weaknesses and think that maybe you aren’t being not given something you ‘deserve.’
    In my case it is hard because I want dearly to be the belle of the ball without doing anything. And self acceptance is about not having an insecurity that allows you to shelter an inflated sense of self, its about accepting your limitations and loving yourself anyway. Hmm with me I guess there is still a disconnect that I feel ‘prettier’ than what is reflected to me by others behavior.

  24. I googled some interesting articles about bitterness, ones which seem to act like it’s this dire thing, some choice quotes (also claiming that ‘righteous anger’ and resentment are more at the root than hate):

    That it ‘starts out as hurt’ and the bitter person assumes thar whoever ‘provoked this hurt’ has ‘malicious intent.’ I also find that a ‘vengeful’ and ‘never-ending, self-defeating cycle of “getting even”’ really does figure as part of it. And certainly contributes to a ‘bleak, negative perspective’ that causes others to turn away from you. But I’m offended deeply at how dire and condemning the article is about bitterness and bitter people. It could certainly make one scared. Im really hurt by this articles webmd level fearmongering. Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201501/don-t-let-your-anger-mature-bitterness

    I think this has to be the most useful article I’ve read about defeating bitterness. Interestingly, a christian one ‘Characterized by an unforgiving spirit and generally negative, critical attitudes.’ This snippet from Ephesians was the one I paid attention to ‘Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other.’
    And this from romans ‘”Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.’

    Source:

  25. Sorry, this topic is important to me. I think what I blame others for is ‘sexism.’ I blame sexism for my lack of success. I think bitterness is a pervasive story of anger and defeat we tell ourselves. And Saturn in Sagittarius is about perspective, flipping perspective. I’ve tried to change my perspective, to flip it around and find the root of it many ways. As i dig for the root of something, though, that throws it into high relief. (And i tend to see the ‘bitter’ story as the true one and the positivity glasses as me just deluding myself when really its so simple.) Sometimes it works sometimes the bitter story comes back as my unifying thread. Bitterness and a sad toilet bowl vision seems to dominate more and more because I focus on it more rather than having it in my subconscious, blaming myself, and letting it make me insecure and uncomfortable.

    I haven’t yet found the perspective that is the antidote to bitterness. But some pieces that are effective (to me, using ‘we’ but just speaking for myself here) are that we don’t usually know the full story of why others react to us the way they do. Even if the reason is simple and the one we think. And if someone hurt us or rejected us for the exact reason we think, it doesn’t mean that this is the unifying thread and when we encounter someone similar, they will also reject us for that reason. And then we mope like charlie brown expecting pain and sleaziness everywhere. Bracing for it. Even when I force myself to stop and not brace myself for pain or for someone to react to me negatively, when they do react that way I feel undefended and go back even stronger to my bitter story. I know that breaking out of this perspective is the antidote, perhaps by focusing inward, or by distracting myself with activities where men don’t necessarily take the role of the laura mulvey style ‘gazer’ or pursuer (I.e. on the metro or in a bar), or by leaving a place where perhaps I have selected a type of guy who’d never like me to see if anything is different, or to just obsess about something else. Not sure.

  26. I am bitter about some things. My mother was bitter about some things. Loss is the biggest trigger I can see. Seems someone/something took something dear from you, something you identified with, then it’s gone, and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. That’s where bitter comes from.

  27. I hate the fact that I’m catching myself becoming more cynical. When you are trusting, you are an easy mark for unscrupulous people, so its a balancing act between having firmer boundaries and vetting people, versus becoming cynical/bitter. I’ve been very very slow to learn these lessons, something that I should have learned by age 30.

  28. HAH I’ve been bitter all day today. Good timing. It stems mostly from jealousy. My brother is getting married and the gifts he is getting off his registry are where 100% of the jealousy comes from. When I graduated college no one in my family even sent me a card, and that was an actual accomplishment. My brother sticks his dick in some chick (for less than a year!!!!) and throws a party and that entitles him to a $200 bed set and $88 shower curtain???? Also, my Saturn squares his Moon so naturally he’s doing it all wrong. And he’s being incredibly offensive to the family (moon). HE TEXTED MY MOTHER TO BREAK THE NEWS. Anyways, I hold grudges for life but hopefully I get over this one. I always assumed my grudges were a Scorpio thing. I have a Scorpio Venus-Pluto-DSC conjunction.

  29. I am not bitter at all. Have my Jupiter in Cancer in house 11, and Sagitarus on the cusp of house 4. My mother on the other hand was a Aries, with a Scorpio ascendant. She could be bitter and had a franzied rage. But she was also intelligent and sharp and she had a lot of talent for several things. But I am more “my fathers doughter”.Love to have a good time. A quiet type. My Mars is in Capricorn. My father was a Virgo and so am I.Virgo on ascendant as well, both of us.

  30. Moon and chiron and Mars oppo Saturnus. I think thise cause me to feel recentment and bitterness towards the hardships I go through. But I have my faith thankfully, who keeps me process shit and live on..

  31. I have to be with my Saturn conjunct moon ( lack of emotional nourishment, emotional needs always blocked/denied/lacked), Sauturn square Mars/Mercury/Sun (self expression, actions, voice always blocked/denied/limited, everything I try to do or move forward with is thwarted/blocked/denied or pushes me 10 steps backwards). I don’t think a human has a chance at joy or optimism in my chart haha!! I can think back at things that made me bitter 10-20 years ago and be in a bitter rage right now. I live with memories like a scorned lover. I have been a scorned lover like 3 times. But I am NOT bitter as a person. My third house is in expansive and optimistic Sagittarius and my Jupiter is in quirky Aquarius and Mercury in sunny Leo. My brain helps me be hopeful for the future and believe every setback I face has prepared me for better things like a world champion boxing career…hey it can happen.

  32. I’m unsure why many think Saturnian or Capricorn folk are bitter. I’ve never met one, and we all know many since so many of us Cap Stellium exist these days.

    I find those who have a tendency to experience peak emotional highs and lows can be bitter, especially when wanting attention. I’ve seen heavy Sagittarians do this, and Geminis too. Those who aren’t the oldest in the family.

  33. I’m often accused of having a dour aura (resting bitch face?) with Saturn opposite my Sun and Mercury. I do get lost in deep thought and at other times am very watchful of my surroundings with my two Asc rulers in the 8th. As a kid many people told me I was too serious for my age! Thank heavens I have a chill Sag Moon and Pisces Asc to mitigate these aspects somewhat.

  34. A sense of deprivation, frustration, not enough drive, envy; those that have wronged you are now striving and you are stuck, frustrated: a weak Mars (in a ‘soft’ sign or house), together with a Moon-Saturn conjunction. I would also say Scorpio plays a part.

  35. yeah i can see bitterness in saturnian folks. but i’ve noticed that even with my mother in law (cap sun/capricorn venus, merc, aqua jupiter) goes from bitterness to forgiveness. If she is faced with someone in her family, whether it is a sister in law or niece or even daughter in law.(although i tend to get more compassion from her) who are married to men who are breadwinners and can provide for a wife and children with no suffering, and do well in life, and have everything, there is a bitterness coming out from her for some reason. She doesn’t seem to like the old fashioned types of men who are breadwinners and women staying home. I saw that in her when she complained bitterly about her brother’s wife, and her niece who married a professional athlete who made nearly half million a year and her niece didnt have to work ..just stay home and take care of the children. I mean thats also hard work! and even make time for her husband so she can keep the marriage alive. and maybe because she is alone now but she is enriched with good family and lots of people respect her in her work community and she does alot of charity work too. but the bitterness is so awful even my husband, her son gets taken aback when she is confronted with those types of women marrying men who are breadwinners. Or maybe she just wants women to be always independent so if something happened (like what happened to her) they would always be without suffering. Who knows. but her ex husband and only man she ever had never was a breadwinner type. he struggled horribly with work and often lacked confidence and had lots of insecurity. Nevertheless she is happier i hope because she has everything she has ever earned. She is a good mother and grandmother and people she knows loves her and she has everything. even her retirement is very good and can travel several times a year with no problem (unless its covid year which prevented any traveling much)
    So when i see any bitterness i feel like OMG i dont want that! *cries*
    for me, i think my bitterness might be that i lack the career that many women have that make them super successful. I”m proud of them that they can do that. But at the same time i dont want the heavy responsibility lol I suck at that xDD i can take part of the responsibility like a shared..how me and my husband do. but i dont want all. that means í would be a boss type and i have no genes in me like that 😀

    • cont’d, weirdly i know that my MIL would never be happy with a breadwinner man; she’d feel competitive and she is always loving work work work. Just a feeling i get. Yet, from understanding this, maybe her focus is on the women, who seem not like her. Ive seen her get bitter at men who are weak in her eyes, not breadwinner and who stay home and take care of the children, men who are afraid of their own shadow. Ive even hear her say to us, that the men who lack the competitive streak, are in the shadow of their women. She says this of her other niece who is a boss and competitive and her husband is passive and sweet and more homey stay home. Saying her nieces husband stands in the shadow while her niece is the sun. SO it is in her eyes “weak” not because its a female/male thing. its the role these individuals take.

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