With Mercury conjunct Saturn in Scorpio, this is a good time to think about behavioral patterns that are destructive to yourself and others.
Today, a client was rejected (Saturn) by a Scorpio who said he felt that continuing his relationship with her would be asking for punishment.
Do you ask for punishment from others, or have you learned to block this?
Also, do you punish people who try to relate to you?
Exactly my questions for myself over this weekend and today. I know enough of myself to see this comes from growing up with dysfunctional parenting.
Nowadays, I am trying to be aware of my actions, and am asking myself “Am I allergic to honey?” (my way to ask myself if why I think of myself undeserving of love/deserving of punishment) 😀
I love this so much, I can’t even tell you. “Am I allergic to honey?” changes everything. Thank you!
@Misscurious: what a great repositioning question “Am I allergic to honey?”
Glad you like it, Mokihana. 🙂
ouch – being hit from several angles !! This is conjunct my Neptune. (along with the other aspects of T-Square lighting up my 7th & 1st and chiron return in 1st house) … some MAJOR behaviour patterns I need to review AND learn ASAP…
Do you think this has anything to do with saturn coming out of retrograde?
Now that you mention it – yes.
So, do you believe Saturn coming out of retrograde has the potential to break up relationships?
Yes. If you can’t go forward in a psychologically healthy manner…
I punish myself–what does that count for?
when a Scorpio says goodbye/ cuts you off its because it is life or death to them- it has nothing to do with whether they love you or not- people need to understand that, it is just simply survival. Sometimes it because we/they know that we are not good for someone as well – we will make that sacrifice to set someone free if it really truly is in their best interest. We Scorpions (natal Sun/ Mercury in Scorpio and Uranus/Pluto in Libra 8th house) may love you and are extremely loyal and protective of our friends and loved ones, but when we perceive threats and start to understand that we are not “safe” with someone because they drain the life force in some way-, pose an emotional, physical, sexual or psychological, financial, threat- it’s over in a very final way because we will do whatever it takes to get out of a trap and that plutonic energy can level everything them . It probably feels like punishment to people who do not understand, but to Scorpio we don’t “get” how other people don’t understand this! If they were ever truly close to us at all how can they not know that we respond that way- don’t they know that when you betray a Scorpion you have put yourself out?
Very well said, Diana.
Just to be clear, in this case, it is the Scorpio who feels punished…and is amputating for the exact reasons you describe.
Can I ask what sign your clients sun and Venus are in?
She has Venus in Scorpio – Saturn transit, applying.
I don’t want to say more.
Sorry to pry, but I was thinking the same, that the Scorpio left. Do you know what her significant others sun and Venus is? With her Saturn Scorpio, you’d think she may be the one to leave, with Saturn in Scorpio right now!
I must be tired. I can’t see what I missed that made this foggy.
He’s a scorpio. He does not want to continue the relationship, because he feels it would be like asking for punishment.
She has Venus in Scorpio and is delivering the punishment, which she acknowledges – they both have Sadge.
So there is no lying here, to themselves or others.
Yes, I have punished people for trying to relate to me. Sometimes I don’t care (Uranus) but some times it just inexplicably enrages me. Like when I finally take my guard down and reveal what I’m agonizing over and someone just breezily says ‘yeah, I was totally like that’ or ‘yeah I know EXACTLY what you mean’ or…something.
Or when the person responds to me with a story about themselves.
Honestly, I KNOW there are people who can relate. And like I said, sometimes I don’t care–I want to hear a story from someone else. There is no rhyme or reason to it. I can’t expect people to read my mind. But there are people online and offline, I can bank on them responding to me, by talking about themselves. I’m sorry…sometimes I don’t care. I don’t want to hear it. That probably makes me sound like a bitch but I am just answering honestly.
Sun-5th, Saturn-8th, Uranus-11th T-square. I seek autonomy.
It’s also a negative side effect of being raised by a Narcissist.
This is also something I talked about in therapy–the punishment:)
Yes. I have punished people for trying to relate to me. Because it feels like they are doing it to hurt me with something at a later date. I guess I’d rather be the bad guy. That way I’m in control of the reason they are grossed out by me.
“Yes. I have punished people for trying to relate to me. Because it feels like they are doing it to hurt me with something at a later date. I guess I’d rather be the bad guy. That way I’m in control of the reason they are grossed out by me.”
Elsa, thanks for this post and thank you Libra Noir for summing up what has taken me nearly 40 years to understand about myself. You must be an 8th house girl! Reading this blog is better than therapy! People you love will always hurt you, always leave or at least be more geographically or emotional distant,, its just a matter of how much you are willing to invest in them in the meantime and having the ability to be in control of when and how the story ends- we already know, even if what we know is that we are the exact cause of much of our own misery and our need for emotional distance and control is what drives people away.
How can we change this!
Have been putting up with it. Am changing that by walking away. The interesting thing is that I came to find that it is not enough that they do it but that they need to know that it hurts me. Odd. It was that gleam in the eye as they did it that always confused me. Not an easy thing to accept. But now I view it as a temporary insanity of some sort. A demonstration of something peculiar. A performance. A glitch.
This post is so fitting. I have venus scorpio. I felt the exact same way and ended a relationship when saturn went direct. I wish I had the ability to communicate that I couldn’t stay because I would be “asking for punishment” but that’s exactly how I felt…this is the first phrase I’ve found that describes the feeling/ rationale. Diana Black is absolutely right. It has nothing to do with a lack of love for that person. People asked me why or what happened, and I just really didn’t have an answer. Now I do. Thanks for sharing Elsa.
How appropriate a topic… I’m a Scorpio with a ridiculous Venus square Neptune saga.. I feel like Saturn going direct was the first step in removing the glitter adorning my current *situation* and with a bunch of other stuff going on (including this approaching intense full moon/eclipse energy) let’s just say the rose colored glasses have come OFF… the destructive behavioral pattern I’m working with is one of EXPECTATIONS based on Neptunian delusion… and I can definitely see how I have asked for punishment with these expectations (emotional mascochism for sure) – and how I have punished others with this as well… Although the pattern has sparked much creativity over the years, at its core it is destructive and it’s something I’m ready to address with integrity and to transmute… I’m hoping now that I see and understand this dynamic more profoundly than ever before, that I can release myself and the current other with gentleness and compassion. It will be the first time I take a step back from a place of clarity and respect rather than anger and resentment… it has yet to go down but I feel there is a conversation on the horizon.
Very well said Mellie! I also have Venus square Neptune. I’m hoping these rose colored glasses of mine come off soon!
Yes. Wanting to be punished by others or end up in these situations where I’m surrounded by punishing people, potentially dangerous people. My descendant is in Aries, and ruler Mars squares Saturn in my chart. I have definitely noticed the pattern of attracting difficult people and relationships. I dont know how much self-awareness I need to overcome this one day but I have noticed that it has gotten slightly less difficult and less hard (at least, to manage) over time. I’m also a stronger and wiser now than I used to be, after many lessons learned.
I must have asked for it before I got here. Abusive childhood, two husbands walked out on me, and since 1998 had all hell. Saturn transiting my FIRST house then, I can’t believe I’m still alive; and much of the time wish I wasn’t.
“Also, do you punish people who try to relate to you?”
Thanks. Eye-opener. I am inclined to believe question is more powerful and important than the answer itself.