About Those Strippers… The 8th House, Attraction To Taboo And Various Mini-Stories

1960s_stripper_polaroids.jpggoddess writes on Projecting Your Rude Behavior:

“Oh God, you just hit one of my pet peeves. I absolutely LOATHE being told “what I think” by someone else at all, but particularly because they disagree with me…

Well it becomes very crazy when this happens because the person is actually sparring with my hologram. Think someone would get in my face like that in real life? And on that front, where is their face, hmm? Who is this person who knows so much about me?

That gal specifically said I had a double standard – “You’d go crazy if the soldier went to a strip bar…”

I calmly referred her an anecdote I’d written a couple years prior detailing how the soldier and I would go to these strip bars together when we were kids! This was before that was fashionable, believe me.

I knew some of those girls, I had no problems with them. I am attracted to taboo, remember?

At the time I was about 18 and sure enough when my boyfriend asks me if I want to go in the strip bar — well I do! And I want to interview these girls, you think? Of course I do. Wherever I am not supposed to be is exactly where I want to go. Who crossed the picket line to have sex as a teenager? That was me. I took him, not the other way around. He’s Catholic, remember? He was a babe.

I also used to serve the whores in a restaurant where I worked when I was 17. The owner made them eat the bar so the other customers would not freak. They were pure whores who worked out of a low key whore house right down the street. They were textbook whores in textbook whore clothing and I liked those girls too.

“Would you like some more ice tea?” I’d ask them politely? “Can I take your plate?”

I am sorry but this stuff just does not bother me in the least. I’m not going to be with a man who’s be interested in a whore, now am I?

I’ve said many times I would never be with a man who sat in front of his computer half the night with his dick in his hand but what does that have to do with girls who strip? Nothing I can think of…

Who else is attracted to taboo? Surely I am not the only one. I can’t remember specifically but it was probably me who asked the soldier to take me to the bar in the first place.

“I’ve got to go in this bar for something.”

“Yeah? I have to go there for something too. Come on, let’s go…”

If you think this is not my personality, you’re crazy. If you’re disillusioned, I’m sorry but it seems to come to with the territory and don’t for a minute think this makes me a person of low morals because I am anything but. I was just taught that people are individuals, free to do as they please (Uranus) and I took this very seriously (Saturn).

So if you want to be a whore, be a whore. I’ve got enough respect for other people to figure if they’re doing it they must be getting something out of it and it’s really none of my business.

And if I ever had a man who left me for a whore or a stripper, I’d think that they funniest thing ever. I’d come right on this blog and tell y’all, you know I would. And I’d be laughing my ass off too. I could almost write a song that would be so rich.

One more time, I don’t concern myself with people who don’t like me or don’t love me. I concern myself with those who do.

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About Those Strippers… The 8th House, Attraction To Taboo And Various Mini-Stories — 42 Comments

  1. Come to think of it, I was also playing pinochle with naked lady cards in a room full of men by the time I was 10 and that didn’t bother me either.

    And then there was the AMF and his naked models… also did not bother me, I think there is a theme here.

    Would I walk into a den of thieves and whores with the soldier today? Of course! I’d go without a moments hesitation and when I am 90, I will still be this way I am sure.

    Why else do you think he calls me with the trucker whore report? It’s because I’m curious of course!

    “The whores are on the radio today,” he says.

    “Yeah, what are they offerin’? What are the sellin’ today, hotcakes?”

  2. ::shrugs:: well, that was a fucking weird thing. i remember in the comments she said something along the lines of “if it were me i’d pique…you too, right?!” i thought she just needed someone to tell her it was okay to be pissed off about it! and you didn’t play along, bad elsa! works perfectly with what you’ve been writing lately about controlling other people.

    on another note, i wonder if this is a capricorn thing? you know: strippers are WORKING. they are working for their money and if people laid off on their judgement they could see this (like, ahem, i do as a cappy moon? heh).

    or leo? an entertainer is an entertainer….fucked if i know but i do know that comment writer was ultra pissy you didn’t do what she wanted you to do.

    happy new year elsa, much love to you and your family. and everyone else too! happy new year’s folks!!!

  3. I love this attitude. I was not so evolved when I was young. My parents were (and still are) big on conforming to societies norms. I’ve always been intrigued with taboo and have become steadily more rebellious as I’ve gotten older.

  4. kashmiri, good point on the “working” aspect. It’s true. I was in service and so are they. I prefer to keep my clothes on – they make more money. Whatever.

    To tell you the truth I never met a whore or a stripper i didn’t like. Not that I have met that many of them, I’m just saying, what did a whore or a stripper ever do to me?

    If you have a man who hangs around strippers or goes to whores and you don’t like it then get rid of the man. Blaming the stripper is projecting the shadow AND avoiding taking responsibility for your life.

    If if wasn’t for those strippers you’d have no problem at all.

    Yeah, right.

    If you settle for a man with no morals, or morals you don’t like then whose fault could that possibly be but your own?

  5. And what about the flip side of the whore/stripper thing. I’ve been in relationships where sex was withheld but I think in our society it is far more common for women to withhold sex or affection from their husbands.

    What are the men supposed to do then? Play the game and barter with their women for whatever it is the women want? Leave and start over? Or turn somewhere else for sexual outlets. They get labeled the bad guy no matter what, or they’re pussy whipped. That’s a pleasant term isn’t it. 🙂 It ties in with your discussion of control in relationships.

    Personally I thing leaving is the most ethical choice but it isn’t black and white by any means. So I understand the women who provide that sort of service as well as the men who seek it out.

  6. There are tons of men no woman will touch.

    There are also men who find it much simpler to pay a whore then try to deal with a woman in a relationship.

    The idea that every man who sees a whore is skulking around on their wife or girlfriend is a myth. What wife or girlfriend?

    I think it’s commerce. Always was and always will be. There is a demand – here comes the supply.

  7. Yeah that’s true too. Because I’m in an open relationship I tend to hear from a lot of married men so the scenario I described is very familiar. I’ve also talked to plenty of men who do not wish to maintain a relationship.

    Anyway I think people need to be touched and need outlets for their sexual energy so I don’t have judgment around this either so long as no one is getting hurt.

    There’s a new asian massage place that just opened in the same building as our groomshop. Everyone I work with is intrigued and repulsed. I wonder about the girls who work there. Are they ok? Are they paid well and are they working there willingly or do they feel they have no other option. Regardless there is a steady flow of rich white men through the place.

  8. I remember the gal’s comments about strippers too, and the whole rant smacked of control. In fact, I totally lost sight of the issue and paid very close attention to the nature of Elsa’s response (holding ground, letting the gal have her opinion, holding ground again, and so on..). I loved the lessons that played out during that exchange. Anyway, not to digress—okay, I digress…Elsa, whatever happened to Candy—she of the baby talk and big breasts? Did you ever find her her smashing outfit? What became of her, you and her, and the Scorpio man who wanted to make Candy a star?

    Can’t help it, Mercury’s in Gemini and I keep wanting to soak up all the stories!

    Happy New Year Elsa!

  9. maureen – someone else asked me about her today and I forgot I was writing that. I will try to resurrect it. I guess the computer crashed or something… word closed down and I have been busy since?

    Sorry!

  10. Oh, and on the gal, I genuinely liked her and felt I bent over backwards to give her rope until there was just no more rope on the planet and she went away mad.

    More likely she is still here though, you know how that goes. But apologize? Never! That would take character. That would take humility. That would require she have a bad feeling… and I guess it’s much better to leave the feeling bad to Elsa P. After all there is no comeuppance in this world is there? ::rolls eyes::

  11. Not a problem Elsa. I’m amazed at how much you put out here.. I appreciate the sheer volume and quality of all you write.. even when (or especially when?? heh heh) it zigs and zags.

  12. Thanks for putting this out there. Elsa. I found that exchange disturbing but I sure learned a lot from your response. You are a fucking trooper.

    I agree with you Lupa…and the whole dog grooming/massage parlor neighbourliness…I just find that funny. In a ha-ha-oops…oh dear I just exposed myself! 😉

  13. I’m just putting this out here tonight because it’s one of my new year’s resolutions, which is to keep my projections in check, and to keep a check of others’ projs. of me. My understanding of this, from this blog, has helped me so much this past year, and I’m grateful, truly.

  14. Kashmiri it is kind of funny.

    But based on recent horrifying internet chat experience I feel the need to point out that I love animals but NOT like THAT. :-O

  15. I could totally go out with you Elsa. The world is a carnival and I love experiencing it — the more taboo the better. I have Pluto in the 8th and of course I’m a sun Scorpio.

    Sex @ 12. Reading my dad’s sexology books at 12.
    Seduced a conductor on an Amtrak train at 14.
    Wanted to be a call girl in college (I didn’t).
    Wanted to major in sexuality and participate in orgies (didn’t).
    Love visiting lesbian bars (I’m straight).
    Love strippers and porn stars.
    Love porn and erotica.

    Let me tell you it is true that too much 8th house energy repels people. Sometimes I’m talking about things I consider perfectly normal and interesting & then realize they are taboo and that I have offended people beyond repair.

    I can’t help it. Favorites topics of conversation include orgies, polyamory, cheating/mistresses, incest (Prince has a great song called “Sister”), consensual rape, S&M, psychedelic drugs, apostacy, anarchy, basically anything on sex …oh and pain. I had to leave one astrology site because I kept askign what sign would most likely give me a spanking (it’s Capricorn by the way).

    I write fiction on all this stuff. Is anyone interested? Nope. Not yet, and yet I have no desire to write mainstream.

    Something about taboo is actually purifying.
    Thankfully due to my Cap ascendant and Saturn trine Pluto I don’t go over the edge — I just observe it with fascination.

    (P.S. Sometimes I read things here about what I was just talking about the day before. I was discussing false humility with a friend last night and then you posted. WEird. REally weird. I mean who discusses false humility. Also, I refer to my online self (and the quasi-public lives of stars) as holographic images. So do you. Weird).

  16. “That would require she have a bad feeling… and I guess it’s much better to leave the feeling bad to [(Elsa P)(your name here)]. After all there is no comeuppance in this world is there? ::rolls eyes::”

    Can I get a fuckin’ witness?!?
    Feelin’ kinda bitter tonight, sorry. I promise I’ll try to be better tomorrow, when I’m sober. *lol*

    On the whore/stripper thing, I’m torn. On the one hand, I understand that you gotta make a living somehow. On the other, I can see how having women in these professions (and porn) just spirals us further down the degredation trail.
    Not the fault of the individual women, mind you, just our society as whole.
    It’s a big ol’ can-o’-worms as far as I’m concerned, and one I haven’t figured out yet. *shrugs*

  17. SaDiablo, I think the it is a symptom of the madonna/whore split in our society. Women can be sexual or they can be motherly but they aren’t supposed to be both.

    I believe the antidote is to embrace the concept of sacred whore and integrate the two sides of the divide. It may not be possible to accomplish this on a societal level no matter how many decades were devoted to the task, but this is the work I do on a personal level and with individuals who seek my guidance.

    8th house Cancer Venus and 10th house Virgo Mars talking there. 🙂 It’s either integrate this stuff and serve or spontaneously combust for me.

  18. Absolutely, Lupa! Which is why I’m stuck between hating how our society views women in these professions and it’s ramifications on women in general and wanting to champion their cause. *lol*

    I think I need to find my own balance here. (Says the Libra stellium.)

  19. I think there are a lot of problems with the way society deals with this issue. Do you think those men coming in and out of the massage place next door to my shop have any fear of being arrested? Worst case they are embarrassed and maybe exposed to their families but the local authorities are not going to go after them. It would be politically dangerous to target the men who can afford those women.

    And here’s another interesting tidbit. I know a man who is very intrigued and has discussed the place with me at length. Gets a thrill and a turn on over it all. At the same time his wife is telling me how angry he is that it is there and how he’s working to have it shut down. He wonders why his wife has issues with her own sexuality while he constantly sends mixed messages about how he feels about sex.

    Some people believe that legalization of the sex industry and control would help and I am all for making sure that young women aren’t being exploited. But as long as people like the man mentioned above have power, the system is fucked.

    Think we’ll keep talking about this subject while Pluto is in Capricorn? 🙂

  20. one of the things that bugs me about the blanket condemnation of whores/strippers/etc. is the double standard. a woman can date a man for his money, or marry a man for money, and she is not judged the same way as women who handle it as a transaction. the professionals are much more honest. no hidden agendas. as long as it’s freely conseting adults, i have no issue.

  21. Ah man, I was the one who asked Elsa a while back ago how to balance my LLLLOOOOVVVE for tabboo, and being a mother. It’s so damn hard. To give you an example of my flip-flopping I remember going back and forth as a kid between wanting to be a nun when I grew up, and wanting to be a prostitute (really). I clearly remember the first time I looked at a Hustler and Playboy magazine, I was in 1st grade. I was in awe. Complete awe. As I grew older, it felt wrong…..yet I still loved it.
    I’m still trying to learn how to be less inhibited. I’m having a REALLY hard time. It think it’s my mars in cancer maybe? Moon sq. saturn? Mars sq. Saturn and Pluto?
    Not much fun for a Scorpio ASC..blah.

    So tired of the double standard too. Let women do whatever the hell they want…shit. We don’t see the line outside of stripclubs getting any shorter now do we?

  22. “We don’t see the line outside of stripclubs getting any shorter now do we?” No. This is an issue that’s close to my heart, shell, but for a different reason. I think that after Pluto through Scorpio and Sagittarius people are sick of the promotion of sex, period. I wonder what Pluto in Capricorn will teach us.
    I worry greatly about the safety of strippers, sex workers, anybody who works in that type of industry.
    Many people do not believe in the rights, as workers, for people in the sex industry. It serves well for those who wish to profit from it. I believe in it, completely. It is NOT going away. I think my Capricorn moon (square Pluto) is the root of this belief.

  23. shell that is so interesting, about your childhood wish. I remember clearly being afraid I was going to end up a prostitute when I was a child. Super odd…I’ve always attributed that as part of a larger past life experience.

  24. I think it didn’t seem like a big deal to me as a kid because I didn’t understand what entailed prostitution. I just thought…hmmm…sex (yeah, I’d like to do that when I grow up)…and you get to make money doing it??
    Haha…which I guess speaks for my Scorpio ASC (sex) sextile Capricorn moon ($$).
    If drugs and pimps were out of the picture I’d be all for it (not for myself, but for whoever elsa wanted to do it).
    I agree with society being over-sexed.
    I think that’s part of my own personal problem. I had such early exposure to such things, that part of me is tired and disgusted of it. Yet…I still love it.
    See…it’s complicated!!??
    ::Rolling eyes at myself::

  25. Thanks, shell – I am as un-whore as they come. There is just no way I am going to fuck whoever shows up. That’s just out of the question, unfathomable to me. I would so much rather starve.

    whore line to the right, starve line to the left?

    I’m goin’ left.

  26. I can’t decide if I’d be on the starve line or the whore line. I mean if I was starving…

    …weird I watched that Clint Eastwood movie, Unforgiven, yesterday.

  27. I don’t know about the taboo thing. I do have a few 8th house planets, Scorp on MC. But b/c of the way I was raised, sex was never a taboo topic, just a fascinating one. I’ve been involved in places and programs related to sex for years. It’s more along the lines of research, education, community outreach, advocacy etc. and it includes sex workers. To me, sex work is real work. When your approach is practical, you focus on specifics. There’s just way too much variety in terms of buyers, sellers and the nature of the transaction for you to think something like “sex work is degrading to women.”

    To be honest, sex seems more of a geeky than taboo topic to me. e.g. A large bdsm party can have a total fan-con vibe sometimes. Pervs can geek out like you wouldn’t believe. And pro doms – the good ones – know all about very unsexy topics like sex health, sex law etc. These practical concerns come before any of the fantasies sold anyways.

  28. Well, going to say how I feel and then duck, I guess 🙂

    For me, it is not so much judging women who prostitute themselves on any kind of moral grounds. We are sexual beings, I get it, believe me. It just makes me sad.

    I work in a library, and when I am having a book discussion with a group of young girls, oh the thoughts, the ideas, the dreams they share! So smart, so many wheels spinning, so wanting to get out there and change the world. How I so hope none of them ever decide all they can share is their body for a price. Not sitting in judgement, just sharing the truth of my gut feeling.

  29. blaming a whore or stripper is a couple steps away from blaming the rape victim.
    men are responsible for their own decisions.
    just like anyone.

    that sort of job was one of the few ways a woman could survive independently in our culture for a very long time. no wonder they disturbed so many people (nevermind their business.)

  30. When I was in college
    I Met some girls in accounting classes..
    They told me they were legal secretaries.
    (But they were always at school.)

    Then one of them told me the truth. I thought about Gloria Steinem she became a playboy bunny and then wrote a book about it; so curiosity got the best of me.
    I talked them into letting me go & see what they do..It was a very strange experience. I helped them make costume changes and redo there makeup and hair.

    It is not a job I would want to have or for that matter even have the skills to do…
    Your body & skin must bee perfect even your skin. you must be extremely athletic.

  31. When I competed in pageants you could wear clothes that disguised any flaws, even put duct tape on your butt to make it look firmer in the swimsuit portion. Or wear body garments under your dress to look like tanned skin and you spent very little time on the actual stage. Maybe 2 0r 3 minutes..

    These girls spent like 5 to 10 minutes for each set or performance. That is a huge amount of time. To jump around etc..

  32. I love the no-nonsense view you have on strippers!

    I am a burlesque performer and I grew up around prostitutes and recently shared to my friends I grew up around prostitutes and I always tell women if they saw what men payed for when they payed sex they would feel absolutely like queens!!

    I have little ego about what I do and that’s where I have issues with strippers that I have met outside the burlesque scene….they think because men are attracted to them that it means they could have any men they wanted. Simply not true! I am a double Cap (Rising and Sun)and understand men are attracted to women. PERIOD.

    It’s their biological imperative and any man who chases a woman who is selling a fantasy gets what he deserves. Most men can see that the women they see in strip clubs or otherwise are what they want to see…any guy who buys into it further is a fool in my eyes!

    Take me without my lashes and in a pair of sweats and flats…I’m no different than any other woman in the world. I have acne and stretch marks and bitch over the details like any woman alive.

    I have a first house Moon-Venus conjunction in Aquarius so I love women and with a Mars-Pluto trine in Aquarius/Libra I am constantly intrigued by the world of sex! I love talking about it, thinking about it, and seeing it!! (Typical Mercury conjunct Sun, Sun rules my 8th)…but I never give it more power than it is due. Or myself for that matter!

    Because of the previous ego-clashes I’ve had with strippers, I don’t go into strip clubs anymore but don’t care if any guy I’m with does. I of course would rather catch a burlesque performance with them and have introduced my hot burlesque co-stars or guest performers to meet my men!

    Usually though, at the end of the night I am the the one obsessing over how beautiful so-and-so was, and how awesomely sweet she is and how she has a great body…not the guys! (Maybe fear I’d get jealous?)

    Dunno…I am such a typical Moon/Venus gal and I tell people I love women…and they just don’t get it…I LOVE WOMEN!!

  33. On a side note, I recently found out a guy who has been flirting with me has a gf…now whenever I see him…I ignore him and when his gf is around I talk to her and admire her because she is pretty and smart and even when he responds to whatever we two girls are talking about I pretend like he is freaking dead and I can’t hear him.

    I am such a b*tch, but don’t you dare mess with the sisterhood…I don’t care how dang hot you are!

    I will always choose the woman over the man.

    ALWAYS. Believe that.

  34. “don’t you dare mess with the sisterhood…I don’t care how dang hot you are!

    I will always choose the woman over the man.

    ALWAYS. Believe that.”

    Ditto sister! Ditto!

  35. I don’t understand strippers perfectly. What always comes to my mind is that they are physically very strong. You have to be strong to do that. And how little men understand about them. As someone who is not unmoved by other women… The rollercoaster of objectification and attraction and seeing another woman as another woman is a bit dizzying. Also the idea that people are paid to pretend to be into you exhausts and makes me defensive. I am constantly wanting to apologize for seeing them as a sex object but also as another woman.. I’m jealous of how they fit into the ideals of attractiveness and I appreciate their work toward it. I used to get away with more with strippers.. they made me feel special.. and as I get older they don’t want to give me that attention anymore and I’m too bitter and fragile and angry to be there.

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