Back on the (hot) topic of the upside of criticism and negativity…
It must be my nature but I am pretty sure every friend I have relies on me to speak up and vice versa. I just would have no use or interest in a friend who could or would not discern things and offer their impression or opinion of whatever. I run with some very intelligent and talented folks but if they won’t give it up, well what the hell? What do I want them to do? See me heading for the rocks and leave me go for what? My own good? I really question that as a motive.
Friends are shown by the 11th house and Jupiter rules mine which is no surprise. I constantly call my friends to ask what they think. I ask specifically for their perspective on whatever I am involved with and if they were not willing to tell me their truth, well I can’t imagine calling them at all!
In fact the worst thing you can do (to a person like me) is say, “Well I knew that, but I didn’t want to tell you…” after I just got my ass kicked. Some gal (a Sadge of all things) said that to me once and I never spoke to her again.
What do you value in a friend? What’s the deal with your 11th house?
“Well I knew that, but I didn’t want to tell you…” UGH! That freaking sucks! That happened to me, when I was about 19. I ended up in a horrible situation with a perverted sociopath.
It was then I gave my friends blanket permission to tell me outright if they thought any person I dated was an asswipe.
It’s an interesting topic, fer sure…as for what I value in friends (my 11th House is empty)…I like to feel as though I can be listened to, and not judged.
Have Mars, Saturn and Pluto there…and probably another one that I can’t remember, ruled by Libra. I tend to treat friends like I’m the adult who needs to be responsible for them. I tell them like it is, the truth as I see it, and tell what I think is the best choice for them. I also do very well with friends who tell the truth (and not some alternate reality truth..the one that actually speaks to me). People who can’t handle things realistically, who can’t grab the bull’s horns…I tend to lose respect really fast. I also think it’s a friend’s duty to kick my a** if that’s what is needed. I respect that.
Pisces 11th House – I don’t know.
Yet with Uranus transitting there…more unusual friends in the last few years
Sun in the 11th. I don’t want people to lie to me, but I don’t necessarily like it when they are just mean and rude. I have a friend in WV who will tell it like it is now and then, even when I don’t want to hear it. I get a little pissy, and then I think “Good God, at least she cares enough to tell it the way she sees it instead of babying me”.
In other words, tell me, but don’t be a bitch about it.
On the other hand, I have a former friend who is wussy as hell. She wouldn’t tell you if you had toilet paper on your shoe at a gala, for God’s sake. She and I…not close at all anymore. Gimme some backbone or move on.
Cap ruled 11H with Sat in the 3H so I like chatty, solid friends. I don’t mind having few of them so long as the quality is there…longevity I am working on and that is my fault. Mucho air/fire in my chart and with NN in cap, it’s a mission to focus.
Virgo 11th, I don’t honestly know. I don’t think I do friendships in a Virgoan way, and I don’t have any planets there. Mine are more Uranian if anything.
Aquarius 11th. I do like my friends to all be different and to be a way to meet other interesting people.
I was once let to do something I later regretted and no one spoke up, but I wouldn’t have listened anyway and I think they knew that, which is why they said nothing.
I have also not spoken up to tell a friend not to get married, and now he is getting divorced. I apologized for having not said anything and was forgiven, but I also think that sometimes people just need to go through their own shit. That’s why, in most cases, I’ll hold my tongue. Also, certain people won’t ever listen to me, like my sister. 🙂
Wow, Elsa, those Libra scales are working overtime to pump up the althernative side of the scales, I’m getting to feeling, ah, kinda Tipsy…
i would never, ever ever dream of telling someone that I thought their marital choice was poor as who am I to understand all of the various nuances and dynamics of anyone elses relationship. In fact, I don’t remember ever even thinking someone I cared abuot was marrying the wrong person, cuz I don’t see how anyone but them could know.
Saturn rules my 11th house, where I have no planets.
I would believe I am trying to rebalance the scales but I know better as ‘butting out’ was my position to begin with.
Scorp in the 11th, no planets. Pluto in 9th. I like my friends deeply intelligent and I love the challenge of meeting people from different backgrounds. Mars (formerly of Scorp) in the 10th/libra–I also find most of my friends through work and projects, mostly of the artistic/spiritual bent. They have to have strong streak of that somewhere in them.
Jupiter and Venus in the house of friends. I love friends of all ages, the younger remind me of the things I might have been (and that makes me glad I’m older and still kick’n). Older friends with positive spirit are a magnet for me. W.C. Merwin is my hero. Close friends have got to be open-minded and willing to love me through the transformations … Venus in Sag in the 11th I seek adventurous relationships. I’m a migratory creature with an instinct for evolution. Those who get it hang in their with me for the long haul
Nah. People gotta let me be me. I’ve had people try to tell me “this guy’s a jerk.” I never listen. I have Sadge in my 11th.
So until I asked, and until I was ready, there wasn’t much anyone could do.
And that’s pretty much how I treat my friends. I have a friend who just told me she’s going to have a baby with the inappropriate guy she’s been with. Ah. Okay. What can I say? “No. Don’t go and have a baby?”
And the thing is she knows full well what she’s doing.
I think part of the beauty of this life is having things revealed to us when we’re ready for them. And that usually happens on its own.
There has to be a balance for me. I need and appreciate being told the truth, but there are people who will nitpick everything to death, given half a chance…while they be “sharing the truth” as they see it, there does come a point where I just want to tell them to put a sock in it and trust my judgement occasionally.
So…truth and tact, I guess? And respect.
And PLEASE, a sense of humor! Life is too serious not to laugh at it once in a while. 🙂
honesty and integrity.
i have saturn and pallas in the 11th (though, whole house speaking, they’re in the 12th, which would make my 11th empty, ruled by cancer. been chewing on that whole house thing.)
The strong Pisces energy in me wants to say one thing about motive… as linked with not taking action, as in what was my motive for not taking any action in a specific situation or another.
I am not sure that I even have a motive for not doing something other than to “let go and let God.” I don’t like to see people in pain of any type, nor in unintentionally self inflicted pain, (because maybe that even feels worse), but I don’t think I can harshly question my motive for inaction because…
when I merely pray about a situation instead of trying to intervene directly. I pray for Gods will. I pray that the person may come to the right decision for their long term spiritual developemt. I think that is a good and powerful motivation for non-doing.
I think there is a link along these lines: Its interesting for me to see what might be the differences between how Sagitarius Jupiter energy manifests and how Neptune Jupiter energy manifests. There is a great book on that very topic but all my books are packed up right now so I can’t cite it.
I also think that the absense of any Pisces energy makes it especially hard to understand the motives and non-motives of the Pisces energy archetype, because there is no logic to it at all, hence many people might misunderstandingly judge the Pisces who stands silent.
I mean minimal Pisces energy, of course everyone has some of everything.
Jupiter in 11th house Gemini opposing exactly 5th house Sag. Venus. I have had very bad luck with friends. Far too many people picked on my children for no apparent reason.
Elsa, the thing is, you *ask* your friends for their perspective, their truth. That’s both generous of you and gutsy, too. Generous because who doesn’t need to know their truth is valued? Gutsy because geez, what if you loathe the result?
i value honesty, respect, intellengence and humor. i have jupiter in the 11th in gemini, just like oct27. i have, however, been VERY lucky with the friends i have. i don’t have many, but the ones i do have are exceptional and i value their love tremendously.
as far as disagreements, we all seem to handle it similarly. if i think you’re self-destructing or if you think i am, we care enough to speak up. and if the other person doesn’t agree, ok. we respect enough to stand back, hope we’re off-base on the outcome, and let the other person have their process. i may not always agree with the choices, but we’re always on the same side. we want good for one another.
My eleventh house is Virgo, and I appreciate not being coddled, but also not being treated in a rude or condescending manner (although arguments that result from that can really clear the air, and set things right, depending on the people involved…). I’d be a hypocrite if I expected everyone to lie to me to make me feel better, because I don’t (and won’t) do that, but – unless I’ve had enough – if there’s a nice way to say or deal with something, I’ll go that route.
Once I’ve psyched myself up to ask a question, I’m prepared to hear the answer, and I expect an honest one. That’s why the question “What is truth, anyway?” in response to a very serious question of my own, just doesn’t cut it. Cut the crap, get it over with. I have been the “wuss”, a couple of times – keeping my mouth shut when I wasn’t asked for my opinion, but should have said something (someone’s boyfriend making a pass at me, for one, although she wouldn’t have listened to me) – and the result wasn’t good, so I may as well give my honest opinion, risk being disliked for it, and be there to comfort the person if it doesn’t work out – or celebrate with them if it does. Sometimes my honest opinion is that I just don’t know what to think.
I think I’ve mentioned once before: I’ve had an “ouch” response to a few things that I’ve read on your blog, either from you or a member of this community. Once I get past that, I think about why I had that response, and – if something needs changing – what I can do to change that. Change doesn’t happen overnight, but it does happen.
Oh, I also have Pluto in the eleventh house, in Libra, opposing Jupiter in the fifth (both squared by Saturn from the ninth). I don’t know if the above is the way a Virgo would handle things – I think it’s more my Aries/Gemini mix (Jupiter, Mercury and Sun in Aries, ruled by Mars in Pisces + Moon conjunct Venus, sextile Jupiter, etc…)
Loonsounds, I understand. 🙂 I sometimes try that, too: pray for them, and/or for the best result for everyone involved.
If I have a bad attitude, and am having trouble getting past it, I’ll also pray for help with that: “Help me to get past this, to be fair, to let the other person be who they really are, and be happy for them…” I don’t need the latter type of prayer that often, thankfully, but once I get over some my own self-righteousness and remember to do that, something usually shifts within me (strongly) in about twenty-four hours. I have Jupiter trine Neptune in my chart, along with Mars in Pisces.
I have lots of people in my life, but very few “friend” friends–and like lovers, they have to be smart. I find (or found, I should say, since I’ve been a SAHM for almost 9 years) them at work. Aquarius on the 11th, Uranus in the 6th.
Oh, and NO coddling, no way, no how. It may hurt, but I want people to tell it like it is. Uranus is conjunct Venus.
To many people, I have a weird (Uranus) way of coping with this area of life, but it’s my deal, and mine to “worry” about–which I don’t.
…since i wrote my comment above I’ve switched to equal houses for chart interpretation…
This version of chart interpretation, Uranus is in my 11th House (opposing my Sun). (Ruler of 11th House is Pluto)
I value friends who are unafraid to be themselves, who except me for the nut I am, aren’t put off by my need to burrow and be alone, and can be trusted.
No one really coddles me. But they do cuddle me. I am a cuddling machine and love warm physicality.
uranus conjunct saturn (1 degree orb) in the 11th house ( Ruled by Sag ) and when you gave the example about the worst thing a friend can do you, i cringed. I do ask my friends for advice( aries moon or not ) and i do expect total honesty. I mean, do i necessarily have to take their advice and use it? No. I just appreciate another’s point of view since mine is rather subjective(obviously.)
the majority of my friends are older but only by 2-7 ish years, nothing more. I do have friends my age too– they would tend to be loyal, and “tolerant”. Offbeat, perhaps. you could say from a 3rd person’s point of view.. but I would say i tend to get along with people from all walks of life.(Venus in Libra sextile Uranus in 29 deg Sag) Many & Varied. I have a close handful of friends i confide in though.
“I value friends who are unafraid to be themselves, who except me for the nut I am, aren’t put off by my need to burrow and be alone, and can be trusted.”