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Defending Libra, Love and Co-dependency — 28 Comments

  1. So there are two codependent meanings right: one is being aware and attentive to the ‘we’, like you said, but there’s another one that refers to the partners of people with addictions that develop a very specific and trouble relationship with their partner’s dependency.
    The 1st one sounds fine by me. Like you said, we can’t all be Aries and ban Libra from the World. It would be the end of us…

  2. I think we all (in a relationship) depend on one another to an extent…so to an extent, we’re all codependent. When we depend on each other to the detriment of the relationship, or in a way that is hurtful to the other, then it can be negative, which I think is where the “dirtiness” of codependency comes in. There’s also this sense that if you’re codependent, then you’re needy, because you “need” someone to depend on, if that makes any sense.

    My Venus is in Sag, and I don’t particularly like when someone is too dependent on me…at the same time, I’m a double Cap (sun/moon) and really like stability, and tend to freak out when that stability is threatened, so I’m probably pretty codependent as well, but from a different motivation. 😉

  3. I like to say that if Melody was present when Adam met Eve in the Garden of Eden, the world would be a different place. First the bible certainly would not have the words “For it is not good for the Man to be alone”

    Melody would have been there screaming “co-dependent, co-dependent” “no one needs a helpmate, you should be working through these things along building your self worth” HA.

    And maybe, there would be no world as we know it today.

    Well, late in my life, I finally meet the great love of my life and he is a guy with at 5 planets in Libra and a Cap Moon. And what I learned is that this is what has been missing from my life all along – a partnered person.

    What he told me yesterday was ‘I might not be able to always give you all of the tinsel, all of the shiny stuff although I would like too, but I will always give you the first cup of coffee and the biggest half of the toast.”

    And he does. And it means everything to me.

    To me, I’ve been waiting for this feeling of a built in best friend my entire life.

    I didn’t know that what I was missing was a true partner. Sure Melody would call it co-dependant but I think its the coolest thing in the world just to love and be loved in return.

  4. i read this as i had a therapist recommend it to me at the time…codependent as presented in book(s) was NOT about a healthy interdependence between partners, but about doing the whole rescue thing where rescuer was as sick as the rescuee, but wasn’t seeing it because they were too busy being the martyr/doormat and feeding off their partner’s crisis. you see this pheonomena frequently with addictions as mentioned, or people partnered with others who have borderline personality disorder, for example.

    yeah, it was a pop psych pheonomea, but part of the reason it flashed is that, for some people, it rang true. some of the concepts certainly did for me at the time. i think it’s a needed message for some. and i never got the impression it was about a total self focus or anti-relationship. but then again, i actually read it.

  5. goddess – I read it too. My point is a Libra one… balance.

    My friend Claire-France had an interesting comment on the word (what it has become)… she called is an assault on love and it is from this angle I make my point.

    Some people could stand to learn from Aries but just as many could stand to learn from Libra…

  6. I think there’s a positive kind of co-dependence and a negative kind… If the relationship is good and healthy, with lots of love and support, then it’s ok that the two people need each other. If it’s a shitty relationship, then obviously the co-dependent factor is lousy!

    My guy and I happen to be completely co-dependent with each other. Our composite chart even has Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Venus in the 7th house! Fortunately, they’re also in Aries… lol It’s interesting, but seriously, the thought of living without him is terrifying. Maybe I could do it, but I definitely wouldn’t want to. But since we’re good to each other, and completely adore each other, I think that’s just fine.

  7. mmmm. maybe the meaning suffered some as part of the pop psych culture, ’cause i never thought of it that way.

    of course, i have sat. in pisces in the 7th across from a boatload of virgo. so ditching the drive to “love away” dysfunctions in relationships crap allowed me to form a real partnership that i’ve maintained to this day. and that partnership is “codependent” in the sense we depend on and need one another.

    so i did feel compelled to defend the concept as i understand it, because i think it’s valid in that context. but i get your point.

  8. I guess I have Libra somewhere because I hear your point, Elsa, and I also agree with goddess. I think maybe the question one might consider is, “Am I sick or am I well?” rather than “Am I codependent?”. As Elsa says, it is a balance.

    I have been codependent in a sick way, seeking the approval of someone who would rather die than pay me a compliment or utter a good word about me. Now I am codependent in a healthy way, wanting the approval of my mate because his opinion matters to me above all others – and he sees good in me where others never could.

    An example would be my need to rescue animals in distress – my former husband would roll his eyes and bitch at me, tell me how much money I’d wasted, inconvenienced him, and how he didn’t want to hear me crying when a critter died. My current husband sometimes rolls his eyes but then he rolls up his sleeves and asks how he can help me. He understands that this is a NEED for me, that I cannot drive by and do nothing. He celebrates with me when I get some critter adopted and holds me when they don’t make it. Every. single. time.

  9. Ms Scarlett – I love that idea of the built-in best friend/partner for life. Who needs shiny, tinsel stuff when they can get the first cup of coffee, and the biggest half of the toast? That’s a real partner 🙂

  10. I am not sure if this is off-topic and I don’t have a lot of astrological wisdom to back this up. But I wanted to share something that truly caused me pain. My last relationship was with a pretty charasmatic guy. His sun sign was Leo. Whenever, and I mean WHENEVER, I would say, “you know what I would love to do today…” he would immediately correct me and say, “don’t you mean what WE would love to do today..” and I would find my spirit sagging.. I would not even remember what I wanted to say, because I felt so distracted by this comment/correction. My sun sign is Gemini and my Rising sign is Libra, and I have an intense need to partner. But partnering in the abovementioned way was the pits.

  11. OMG Maureen, it’s like you’re a joint mind. We saw a documentary the night.. conjoined twins. That is how they operated but come on. They shared a lowe half of a body!

  12. Yeah, Elsa. This blog is helping me let go of the whole era of me with him… I’m so glad, and the more I learn and accept good old me for me, the more I am so stunned by the wierdness of that relationship.

  13. Maureen, I’m sorry to hear that. 🙁 What house is your Moon in?
    I have experienced this to a certain degree (I have a 1st House Moon).
    Part of the reason I’ve been talking very, very little these days about something I’m grieving is that it feels like there are few people who can actually LISTEN…take what I say at face value without saying ‘Maybe you mean this’ or ‘It could be like that.’

    Maybe so, but shut yer freaking pie-hole while I try to get more than one sentence out of my mouth! It is so deflating.

    This makes me wonder where your North Node may be as well? Martin Schuman’s book on the Nodes really opened up my eyes on some things. I have NN in Libra and apparently silence is god for me. Um, I mean good. LOL.
    Take care 🙂 and glad you’re working through your stuff.

  14. Kashmiri, astrology is helping me make sense of so much. What an inner journey I am on but I think I’m past the real grieving and more into the grooving, if you know what I mean. My moon is Scorpio 1st house! North Node in Virgo, south node is Pisces 5th house… that south node tripped me up big time in the relationship..

  15. I’m at a point in life where I don’t want to be associated with anyone else, period. Not that that’s possible. I used to be really co-dependent, which I hated but felt I didn’t have a choice. I eventually realized I was being manipulated into that position (after I’d created it to begin with for safety and because I’m female and women are socially “supposed” to rely on men/their family/each other), basically forced into staying everyone’s doormat and personal yes machine. I may have Libra, but it’s Mars, Saturn, and Pluto and they’re all near my ascendant or in my 1st house. I prefer independence. I’m much happier and healthier overall not having to “deal” with anyone, doing things for myself, because I want to, because I thought of it.

    I do think I’m a special case and this whole idea will change over time. After all, I say “love” more than the average single person, so of course I understand and do “connecting”, Libra-Venus style.

  16. Co Dependence is about needing “something else” to attain a sense of “me”. That is one can be co dependent on drugs and alcohol. The term is I agree has negative connotations but most of Psychology will refer to some aspect personality that is either ok or pathological.

    The co dependent relationship can be summed up by the following math.

    1/2 person + 1/2 person(psychologically) = 1 person.

    That is either person in the above equation finds life very difficult to libe by themselves-alone.

    Then there is two individuals coming together in relationship who do not seem to opperate as individuals in the relationship

    1 + 1 = 1 there is not aan individual person in the relationship sense.

    Then there is

    1 + 1 = 1 + 1 where two individuals can 0pperate as individuals in the relationship.

    Then there is the ultimate

    1 + 1 = 1 + 1 + 1/3

    This means that there are two individuals opperating in the relationship and a “third self”. The third self is the relationship self. That is the part of the person opperating within the relationship as one does while at the same time they are able to be independent from the other and persue individual goals in life. If the other person was co dependent it would be very hard for the person to be themselves and feel good about being in the relationship.

    Sometimes couples counselling sets goals to get

    1+1=1 relationship into 1+1=1+1

    1/2+1/2 = 1 relationships may involve personality disorders and other levels of mental health concerns usually derived from dysfunctioal attachments in developmental years.

    Sometimes it is a matter of being oneself (me me me) and caring for others. Caring for others is not necessarily co dependence. There is also the idea of “Twinship” which I may discuss later.

    kingsley

  17. I have libra, quite a bit and as much as I like space and privacy and can be the loner type (Scorpio, packed 8th) I cant get away from the fact that I like human exchange. How would I learn about myself and who I am if not from other people (their ideas, experiences ect) to see where I fit and where I stand. You dont know you’re an assertive or whatever person til you met someone who is not and think hey Im this sort of person because you’re not like me. Some point in time you need the other and co-dependency. Obviously there’s got to be a balance between being co-dependent and independent but of course I’d say that I have LIBRA!

  18. geez maureen- how creepy! that reminds me of the tradition of unity candles when people get married. i get the idea behind them i guess and if people want that, fine, but it always kinda creeped me out. the two lives of my husband and me did NOT become one upon wedding. we are two people who agreed to share our two lives with each other. that’s way different!

  19. Much as I didn’t like being told “You HAVE TO read that book!,” the above poster is right that that book is specifically for very dysfunctional relationships. Like people who insist on staying with abusers/alcoholics who mistreat them because they’d rather be abused than alone. I don’t think it’s the same as Libra-ness.

    I’m unfortunately disposed towards codependency (Libra NN/Taurus stellium in 7th, sun/Chiron on descendant), both by birth/astrology and by raising (mother has moon on the descendant) and by female/family socialization. In my early twenties, I clung to people so hard until they all shook me off in disgust and exhaustion. I wouldn’t get involved with a druggie/abuser, but when I’m with someone, I definitely act in an unhealthy manner about it. It’s not healthy partnership that benefits us both, it’s me wanting a life raft. And really…I need to save myself. If I can’t hold up my end, how can I expect to not drive people off?

    I think that is where codependent is an issue: expecting/wanting someone else to save you/do things for you/take care of you. Some people can deal with wanting a partner in a healthy way and some don’t. The latter group of us is what gives the word a bad rap.

    Anyone read any of the discussions about Twilight lately? Bella literally does not want to live if her boyfriend is not around. Now THERE’S a codependency issue.

  20. Yars, I’m co-dependant. And a bit ashamed of it. Basically I’ve been in an overlapping series of relationships since I was 17. Not in one right now and it feels… strange.

  21. Yay! Four planets in libra here and I love partnership. Have had some crappy relationships but I solved this by finding a fantastic female best friend who I run with. When I am able to transfer this model to a man I will. Meantime this relationship makes me very happy and I would be lost without it.

  22. I’m a Libra with Sun and Venus in the 7th house, and Pluto, Mars, Mercury, and Uranus in Libra (8th House)…I’m a partnered person to the core. I met my husband when I was 14 and have always been with him.

    In my late-twenties, though, speaking of how people do need balance, I definitely needed some “Aries” in my life. Up until that point, everything had been “we” and “us” for me from the time I was 14 years old. In my late twenties, I began writing stories and novels, and suddenly I had a way of being in the world that was all about “me” and “I”, and it was so incredibly freeing. It made me grow as a human being in big ways that have expanded beyond my writing.

    Still, I’m a partnered person. My husband is the most important person in my life, aside from my child, and I tend to pick very intimate and close friends with which to share the interests I have that my husband doesn’t share. I like to be with people and for them to need me and for me to need them. It feels right to me.

  23. This is a very interesting take. I am a double Aries so you can imagine I’m far from “codependent.” In fact, I am NOT USED to getting help from anyone! I always felt that if anyone helped me, there was this expectation for some kind of reward, otherwise, they will use guilt to give them what they want.

    I realized that my partner has four planets in Libra and now I’m seeing this codependency thing. He really likes being partnered up and in a relationship, and he helps me out in so many ways! I am hoping to learn a lot from this, as I’m still learning about codepdendency.

  24. Having Libra rising, Aries 7th ( no planets there nataly,) with Mars on the Asc. in Libra, and venus the chart ruler Venus in Virgo, I struggle with the codependant/interdependent/independant cycle all the time. I think that if the codependancy is based on looking for someone else to be the “bad” guy so you can be a martyr, that is to be avoided…but impossible to not be a part of at times. Needing to take care of peop0le to feel good, is not so bad…but notto the extent that you let yourself fall to pieces. Libra is all about balance…and sometimes you have to throw things out of balance to get balance. So codependancy is a vital ingredient in life…just not to be abused 🙂

  25. Co-dependency is just the word that was chosen to describe a condition of imbalance/dysfunction in a relationship and as with much of the English language can surely have different meanings for people. Face it, glossolalia just simple fails us sometimes, right?

    From a counseling perspective though, the use of the term co-dependency just makes sense as a descriptive term people can relate to, a label if you will, so the counselor and client can have a common point of reference in their dialogue.

    From a counseling perspective, co-dependency recognizes 2 people in a relationship where part/s of the core Self is compromised to force the relationship to “work”. Often people find they’ve given up so many parts of their core Self to force a relationship to work without really receiving anything in return, or rather, receiving only a false sense of security in return. The security in knowing that “as long as I give up this part of Me, the ‘other’ will always stay around”. Meanwhile, these people are missing out on their own spiritual evolution, their own intended life experience; passing up opportunities along the way to evolve into higher levels of consciousness. Co-dependency in the clinical sense sets boundaries that guaranty “no change” in the individual, when this life is all about change. It’s all about growth, it’s all about metamorphosis into “the other” (7th house) or becoming the Higher Self (9th house), letting go of Saturn to embrace Uranian experience eventually reaching 12th house Cosmic Consciousness.

    If (to you) the term co-dependency simply means a balanced relationship where each is free to follow their path and experience the evolutionary journey of the soul then everything’s cool.

  26. I get the authors point, but it can be said of any sign really. An aries can be assertive for just causes and he can also be violent and abusive. They are the same arian qualities but on the opposite end. there is an evolved state and an unevolved state to each sign

  27. My boyfriend is a libra and his birthday is September 29 and he’s not needy nor possessive or co dependent. I’m very lucky

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