If you know someone’s birthday but don’t know the exact birth time, are there any techniques one can use for trying to make an educated guess for when it might be? Would their first impression indicate their ascendant or their midheaven, i.e. public face?
“One girl is a streetwalker, but her feet are so soft…”
This relates to the Astrology of a Person’s Energy in a Room theme. I wrote this in 2002 on my original blog as part of another series, “Astrology In Not Flat”. I was trying to explain the difference between a person’s ascendant and their sun sign. Here it is:
You can consider the ascendant, it’s sign and it’s aspects as a person’s veneer. Say you’re at a party and you see someone who appears accepting to one and all. A non-judgmental sort. That same person leaves the party and once in the car they let loose with a barrage of scathing criticism of everyone in the room. Well, well, well. What have we here?
Astrology in real life
On the topic of Astrology and a Person’s energy in a room, separate but related, when I was pregnant with my first baby another astrologer told me that when a baby is born, their energy comes into the room in a profound way. She said if I paid attention, I’d be able to feel it. Who is this baby? Who is this new person coming into the world?
She said it was rising sign of the soul that would fill the room. The rising sign is the first handshake and this seemed to compute. As I mentioned in the last piece, it’s the Jupiter on my ascendant that fills the room, initially.
Astrology in real life
Recently we’ve been talking about attraction and repulsion and also the rising sign, a person’s first handshake or their veneer as I say. I have been talking for 20 years about the problems I have on this front as my appearance is somewhat incongruous with my actual personality. Basically, I have dimples which attract people but I try to warn them – Beware the undertow.
“Well it just happens sometimes, I told the soldier last night regarding someone who approached me in friendship but has now retreated. “People see me, think they like me but find out they don’t. I mean look at me. I have dimples or whatever. I am always smiling so people think things when they see me. They think they want to know me. Other times they think I am some kind of mess they are going to save so they come in to do that but then they get a little closer in and change their mind in a hurry.”
The soldier stared.
“It happens to you too. Say you’re wearing a long sleeved shirt and you get a date. Then you take off your shirt and the person sees your tattoos and says, oh no! I didn’t know this – I’m out of here!’
That he understood.
Is your veneer false advertising?
I’ve noticed all my life people have found me difficult to talk to when they first meet me. I’ve had all sorts of comments about their first impressions of me such as: intimidating, analytical, player, unapproachable. Could you please tell me why?
I’ve also noticed that I’m deeply emotional to a ridiculous degree, but I always appear icy cold on the surface. I really want to be able to have better interpersonal skills so that I’m less misunderstood. Could you please advise on how I could resolve this? Thanks a lot.
I am throwing this up as an open question because it hits so close to home. I have a similar problem in that I am constantly grinning which may seem far less problematic but I would not be so sure. In your case, people reject you based on a first impression and in my case I am also rejected, once people discern I am not the grinning fool I appear to be and that they wanted to know.
As for the astrology, your problem is clearly shown in your chart. A person’s first handshake is shown by the ascendant and with Saturn and Pluto conjunct yours… intimidation is the word of the day. And I am hoping someone around here might have some insight for you. For example someone might come along and tell you how your chart will progress and your problem will resolve but this has not been my experience. I am still grinning, see? I have no way to not grin when I meet someone, even though I may be thinking or feeling who knows what. So I will advise you based on this.
Grew Up In A Religious Home, Now She Studies Astrology – Family Trouble: Capricorn Moon, Sagittarius Rising
I am having trouble relating to my sisters. I talk to them all very superficially, but I feel I cannot be myself around them. We grew up in a religious home (evangelical Christians) but I am not religious. I curse like a trucker, I am pro-choice, I hang out with all kinds of wacky people, and I love my queer friends.
I get very depressed when I hang out with my sisters because I feel like there is something wrong with me – that I am cold, that I don’t tell them anything about myself, that I can’t BE MYSELF because obviously I do not tell them anything about my life. I left home at 16 because of a huge myriad of reasons, all leading to me wanting to feel free to be myself.
I feel as though I am a failure because I cannot be myself – or really be true to myself – when I talk to my sisters. I really feel like I hide who I am. And I feel lonely and isolated and wondering how I can learn to be myself around my sisters like I am with my friends. I feel like I am missing out on family.
The more I explore spirituality, the more depressed and isolated I feel: my sister came over for a night and I had to hide all of my astrology books because I couldn’t bear the theological argument. Even just the “I’m praying for you” crap that makes me feel like a complete and utter failure.
Sorry to be so dramatic. I just think that these people aren’t assholes or bad, so I want to get along with them. I feel like a phony. The last time I stood up for what I believed in there were serious repercussions which hurt for a long time.
Anyhoot. Thanks for any insight you may offer.
Your problem is terrifically complicated but also very simple. First the conundrum: Mercury rules “siblings” and yours is highly stressed. It’s involved in a T-square with Uranus and Saturn which plays about million ways. Like this:
Rebel (Uranus) against your siblings (Mercury)… and vice versa.
Oppressed / Restricted /Rejected (Saturn) by your sibs (Mercury)… and vice versa.
And I could go on and on. These things go ’round and ’round, bing, bang, bing like a pinball machine. And although there are positive ways for these energies to express, this is an advanced game, beyond the scope of what can be addressed on this blog. So leaving that be, I would advise you to focus first on something much simpler. The basic way you’re living that is, because this is what is causing most your symptoms anyway.
See, you’ve got a Capricorn Moon. And Capricorn cannot thrive until and unless they are living completely above board. You must live with integrity or else… well in the case of the Sun in Capricorn, life without integrity is a dismal failure. In the case of a Capricorn Moon, you are going to be depressed! So you get my drift. It is you responsible for your depression and you who can fix it.
And your Sagittarius rising echoes this theme. Sagittarians are all about what they believe. And who are you if you are concealing your “religion” (or lack of) courtesy your fear of being rejected (Capricorn) by your family (Moon)?
I vote that you express yourself. Live free and let the chips fall. Because I’m telling you, your relationship with your sibs is going to be taut regardless. But at least this way you’ll have integrity, and with your Sagittarius standing proud I bet your mood improves.
Have a question? Need advice? Ask here!
I was seeing a guy who I thought ‘was the one’ for about 3 months when he said he wasn’t ready for commitment and we broke up. Three months later, he rang me saying he had thought about nothing else but me and wanted to spend his life with someone and he wanted it to be me. I’m very good friends with his best mate and know for sure that my friend would not have let my ex contact me unless he was serious.
We have been seeing each other for about 4 weeks now. I made it clear when we got back together what I wanted from the relationship and what I expected from him… but I’m beginning to see the same sort of behavior signs that I saw last time. I’m not overbearing. In fact we see each other about once or twice each week and I’m making a real effort not to contact him.
Am I being paranoid or is he having a change of heart? He is an Aquarius. I just don’t want to be heartbroken again.
Stellium in Libra
I am going to be very candid with you. I don’t think you’ve got the right man. When you find “The One”, you will not have these kinds of questions.
“The One” will deliver a good deal of what you want and need, organically. This is as opposed to you having to outline and dictate it all. When you find “The One” you will not be training yourself, straining yourself. “The One” will not leave you struggling to not be seen as “overbearing” or any other thing.
My friend satori put it best when she told me if you have to cut off your toes to get your foot into the slipper, then you’ve got the wrong man! So I’m sorry. I know there are things you like about this guy but if you pay attention… the main thing he is doing is making you miserable. And you have a Leo Moon, you know.
So besides your stellium in Libra (relationship is everything), your Leo Moon needs a good deal of attention and two times a week just isn’t gonna cut it. So do yourself a favor. Don’t try to cajole a third day out of this guy. Makes more sense to find a man who gives you four or five or six days a week of his own volition.
Have a question? Need advice? Ask here!
Trouble Maintaining Relationships Of All Kinds: Stellium in Virgo with a Cancer Moon, Cancer Ascendant
I have never really been good at maintaining platonic friendships or finding and maintaining romantic relationships. Part of me longs deeply for closeness and intimacy. The other part seems to push people away when they get too close. Part of me aches for touch. But another part of me feels very anxious when being touched or a person is standing too close. Part of me aches with a sense of loneliness. Then another part of me relishes the freedom from emotional entanglements. Part of me can be very concerned for the well-being of others and seeks to be of help. Then part of me feels incapable of empathetic connection and remains aloof. Part of me will try to be there for others. Then another part of me freaks out and needs distance from the pain and drama in the lives of others. Part of me can be very encouraging. Then part of me tends to be bitingly critical, judgmental, and alienating. I am at a loss regarding this internal dance of extremes.
I am beginning to wonder if one of my lessons in this life is to learn how to be alone and be my own person. In the past, I have often found myself either so enmeshed in the lives of others taking on their personas and characteristics or being so needy and clingy to the point of being a nuisance. When people would register their annoyance, I would withdraw feeling hurt not wanting to make myself vulnerable again.
Related to this is my relationship history. I have not had a boyfriend since I was 17. The last time I kissed someone intimately was at 19. The last date was at 23. Further, I have never been physically intimate with anyone. One could argue that my history has more to do with where I chose to put my energy during my teens, twenties, and early thirties (school, work, and religion). But, I still wonder whether something more is happening beyond my control. In fact, others have said things to me that make me think as much.
One woman whom I barely knew and with whom I never talked about marriage told me that she did not think I would ever marry. She also told me that I seemed too picky. Another woman once told me that she did not think that I liked men and even discouraged her husband from setting me up with someone, even though she never told me why. I had one woman tell me that she thought I was gay because she saw me lying on a bed with a woman who was a friend. In fact, other people have subtly hinted to me that they wondered about my orientation.
Can you give me some insight?
To tell you the truth, this is one of the more challenging questions I have ever had. You’ve got it all tied up, see. It’s not like I can say, hey! Go get what you want! Because you refuse to state what you want. You want to be close to someone…not. You want to be dependent… not. You want to be connected but aloof, etc. and so forth.
And this is not so uncommon in a milder form. People are naturally ambivalent. But you are refusing to choose…. anything. You’re 40 and you won’t state a sexual preference?
I’m sorry but it’s very easy to see how someone would become frustrated trying to relate to you. And I can use myself as an example, because I’m a person. And I would very much like to help you but I feel it’s impossible and it’s because you’ve made it this way.
Think about it. And with five planets in Virgo, thinking is your forte. If you refuse to define yourself, your wants, or your needs… if you insist on remaining utterly amorphous, how the hell is someone supposed to attach to you? Where should they grab?
Who do you want to have sex with? Who do you want to kiss? Animal, mineral or vegetable? We don’t know! We don’t know because you won’t tell us! And when people guess, they guess wrong. And I’m sorry but this seems very “baby-like” to me. A baby is ouchy. A baby is hurting but they can’t tell us why. They can’t tell us, “I need food, or I am cold or I am lonely, tired or bored….”
So here’s the deal:
I don’t agree your life lessons are to be alone and blah, blah, blah. You’ve already mastered that, don’t you think?
You’re a Cancer rising with a Cancer Moon. That’s the baby part. But this leaves Saturn ruling the 7th house (partnerships). I’d say your lesson is to learn to relate to others. But to do this, you’ll have to define yourself. You’ll have to be willing to draw some lines and to be very candid, you don’t sound willing at all. Which is your business of course. But you asked for my insight, so this is it.
And how you got this way, I don’t know. But it sounds as if your development is arrested. Because typically as people mature they gain definition. They get clarity around who they are what they want. And this is what you lack.
And it’s fine if you want to leave it that way. But if not, I would say you need to see a professional who will commit to staying in a relationship with you as you struggle to define yourself against them.
Have a question? Need advice? Ask here!
Outtakes and Various Other Sundries…
The comments on the “Is Love Simple?” blog caught me completely by surprise. In fact, I am stupefied by the comments on the whole, and in the process of trying to assimilate my thoughts and feelings about them. What do you make of them?
This also became the “most commented” blog on ElsaElsa, surpassing “Astrology of a Person’s Energy In A Room…” which used to hold that title.
Check these out, but if you really want to see a blog that won’t die, check “Sagittarius Men” which I posted on blogcritics.org, last September. People have been leaving comments on that thing on a weekly basis at least for a year now! It’s uncanny. In fact I ought to do a chart of that blog and see what the hell is going on.
Outtakes and Various Other Sundries…
Ken Wilkinson asked, regarding the Complex Teenager in this world:
“Do you and this teenager have the same rising sign? You mentioned that you are both misleading at first handshake. Just wondering, fascinating advice!”
Thanks Ken, and we don’t! The Teenager is an Aquarius rising which I assume is what lets him connect initially. He says he makes friends easily and then problems ensue. Sounds familiar.
But in my case, I have Jupiter conjunct the ascendant, giving me dimples and a huge grin. I look happy and sporty and very, very approachable. But like the Teenager, look out below!!!!
Here’s an old bit I wrote in 2002 about my situation:
I have Jupiter rising and I appear at first glance, to be at large and optimistic. I definitely go out in the world with a huge welcoming grin. This attracts people to me, however a large number of them run for lives when they learn that in fact, I am an intense piece of work. Like this.
“Here’s some jokes, but enough of that, already. Let’s discuss my favorite thing. The rim of hell! Who’s going, who’s been, who’s come back since the last time we talked? And let’s not forget about who’s circling the drain, and who didn’t make it. Sex, anyone?”
This happens all the time but what can be done? This is how I am strung. It would be impossible for me to stop grinning. Oh, I could try to warn the public. I could wear a shirt “Beware the Undertow” but that would make my laugh, which is one up on the grin, so scratch that.
Or I could try to be more superficial? Nah…that’s not going to happen unless someone gives me one of those sneak lobotomies. How about I just be me, and you just be you?
And I am making this sound fun, but it’s not. It’s like the whole world wants to know you for about five minutes! They want to know you, until they know you!! But I will say this: When people like Teenager and I do make a real connection, it is deep and lasting. And I would rather have that than twenty flighty fly-by-night friends.
And here’s another thing…
Just check this blog over the last few days. First it’s full of Henry and his spirituality (Jupiter rising) and next thing you know people are getting stabbed!
What can I say, man? Welcome to the ElsaElsa blog!
Heads Up from Elsa P!
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