Piya writes on the Liars In The Zodiac, Concealing:
“I don’t know if this makes sense to you guys but anybody who conceals a lot from me (that I’m dating) … well that just sets off all kinds of red alarm bells for me. What are they hiding? Why are they hiding it? Don’t they want to be themselves around me? All parts, not just some of them … maybe that is Mars in Scorpio talking but I want to know an entire person and I want them to know me, whoever that is…?”
Piya, this is smart. But I bet you’d be amazed how many people want to know as little as possible about the person they are dating so they can better carry their projections.
For example, there are men who want an “Italian girlfriend” because they think that means certain things. Or maybe they want an “Asian girlfriend”/ All they want to see or know about you are the things that fit their stereotype.
On the flip side, women might want some guy on a white horse. They want a rich guy and when they get him, he is to act like this, this and this…
wyrdling writes on the Zodiac Predators video:
“Does Venus Neptune make an illusion of themselves on purpose, or instead draw/get attracted to people who are likely to dream them up, and then have to deal with that thick layer of fantasy one way or another?”
Yes, and yes. Venus Neptune obscures things, absolutely. Not just from the beloved but from themselves. But they also are easily projected upon.
If you have Venus aspecting Neptune in your chart, you are going to find yourself in these type situations. The guy says he as a couple of beers now and then, not ten beers, every night! Or they forget to mention they’re taking a cocktail of six psychoactive drugs!
But anyway, Piya for a person like me to meet a person like you, it’s a great gift and relief. Basically you act as a port in the storm. But admittedly the Venus Neptune person creates their share of the storm (the fog) though this is often denied in favor of of playing victim.
“Oh, look what he/she did to me!!” That’s the Venus Neptune lament right there.
Anyone else?
The man I’m dating has Venus square Neptune in his chart and in our compatibility chart his Neptune is square my Sun and my Venus. Because of this, I’m kind of afraid he doesn’t see me – he sees his “idea” of me. I’m also afraid that one day he’s going to wake up and look at me like a total stranger and wonder why he ever got involved with me. I don’t think he keeps things from me. If he does I have never been aware of that. I know all his friends and family. He’s one of those people that just says what they are feeling or thinking. He seems very open with me. I’ve been through his whole house. On the other hand, I feel I keep a lot from him. Not important things that he should know, but I don’t tell him every thing I do or feel. I just don’t see the need – and I’m the same with everyone. I’ve always been a private person. Would this be a projection of his/our Venus square Neptune? I know he’s been involved over the years with several women who turned out to be alcoholics or on medications that he didn’t discover until he was in pretty deep – and that’s one of the reasons I’m taking this very slow because I want him to feel safe with me because, even though I don’t tell him everything, I have no big secrets. I honestly think I’m the first woman he’s been with that doesn’t need to be “rescued” and that’s a little unsettling for him, but he’s adjusting to it.
I think I need to schedule a reading. Do you do composit/synastry charts as well as personal?
>>Would this be a projection of his/our Venus square Neptune? >>
kathy – it really can’t be defined like that. I can’t say this enough times – It is a hall of mirrors! You can’t blame one mirror in a hall of them for causing the problems. It acts as a prism constantly reflecting.
And yes I do everything when it comes to astrology and relationships. It is my primary interest and specialty.
it’s kind of a mix for me. i don’t say everything i’m thinking, even after being with the same man for almost 20 years. but if you ask me something, whatever answer you get will be direct and honest.
with my husband, i don’t feel the need to know every little thing about what he thinks and feels. he can tell me what he wants to. but it doesn’t mean i’m clueless about who he is, either. i don’t exactly probe him, but i do observe. and when i decide to tune in, i know things that he may not have intended for me to know. perhaps it’s my merc conjunct pluto, but i often have the ability to see right through facades. i know it can be disconcerting, though.
It took me a long time to realize that my SO not only doesn’t reveal certain things to me, but that he doesn’t want to. But I’m the same, so I don’t know why it was such a weird feeling to realize, gee, he does the same thing. It makes me feel like it’s possible we all do!
I have Venus/Neptune, so I have done the veil/unveil merry-go-round…too much.
My SO has Gemini ASC with his Moon in Scorpio and likes to tell stories with details omitted. Part of him always likes to keep something for himself, and he has explained that what ever details he knows are so minor I might tell another person casually and he wants to keep private, he just doesn’t say them out loud.
Who wants to go around saying ‘I ate a cheese sandwich last night’ but doesn’t want the world to know, so says instead ‘I ate a cheese sandwich, don’t tell anyone.’ That would be a bit odd, no? So omission is actually very helpful for extremely private people.
You can also have a situation where you might be willing to share more information but significant people in your life are not interested in the minutia!
I’ve had a relationship like that – they were too busy REPEATEDLY to hear some of my thoughts, so I basically shut down to the barest of communications (not hard for someone w/as much Scorpio as there is in my chart).
BUT, my emotions were sorely affected by that shut-down on their part so there was a GREAT DEAL of other good juicy info (not so minute) that I would have been willing to share with them, but if my little asides were too dog-gone much for them to handle? Hell would freeze over before I’d share more of my innards with them, ya know?
“You want surface data only? Great, No Problem, I can do that. I don’t like it, but I can do it.
Too bad for you, because you’ll be missing out on some of the best parts of me. Your call.”
Many folks in my family are closed mouth by nature. It is learned behavior, partly because the older generation was so personally affected by WWII. Moreover, we have 1st generation Scandanavian/Northern European roots, basically not a touchy-feely group, especially with outsiders. I think the generation in which one was raised… along with one’ culural influence will clearly affect a person’s use of their planetary energies. Mars in Scorpio would probably feel frustrated by us in general.
Moreover, certain matters are really don’t need to be discussed. Rehashing the past is not always the best medicine. Moving on and leaving what cannot be changed is sometimes the best course of action. It is not about deception but simply maybe about darker times.
After Neptune transited my first house on top of a natal Venus/Neptune sextile, I learned to be very direct about who I am & what I was into to. That helped with the worst of the projections though I still had to repeat myself . . . dang Neptune! 🙂
You know, I might be in denial about this–and I’ve got the aspects for that with Leo venus conj mars square Scorpio neptune ;)–but I think I disclose myself pretty fully and honestly with my romantic partners. This square has played out in how I’ve deceived myself or been deceived about them. No one has told me, “I had no idea you were like this” whereas I’ve said that lots of times to others!
I’m at the point now where I practically tune out what someone says about himself or flip the white to black and vice versa, just to try it on. Wow. Leaving aside intentional deception, it’s amazing how far apart the reality can be from what people believe about themselves. And it’s been true of me, too.
To me this is very painful aspect as applies to relationships but not so much if I keep it in myself. Venus-Neptune = being absorbed into music, art, maybe a sugar addiction. Passivity? Maybe. With other people I can feel I’m standing in front of them, I know who I am, what my interests are, and am willing to reveal just about anything, and they’d rather watch a movie on my forehead. Or as the last one who was doing sexual projecting might’ve liked: on one butt cheek.
I can be delusional about what is really going on, creating a better scenario in my head than what is true. And sometimes it’s good I can do this because the reality would be devastating to absorb…example: I broke up with someone and figured maybe we would take time apart and re-connect in the future. In the interim he became homeless, fully revealed his addict state, and totally desolved into a boneless, moral-less, unreliable state. Before you blame me, he did this after other break ups too. Who could really take on the full burden of that and how dare they (or the Universe?) expect me to?
It isn’t my problem if people think I resemble Florence Nightingale.
It’s funny. We’re both telling each other that the other person doesn’t ask enough questions. How do you disclose properly? What do you disclose?
It’s a question of what you value in the relationship- what kind of information is needed to make useful decisions. It takes a lot of time and energy to get to know someone and you need to start with the important stuff or you’re wasting your time, I think. But figuring out what’s important is a trick. And meanwhile, people keep growing (hopefully.)
It’s a very slippery thing for me. I guess that makes sense, considering my chart. I’ve had to do a lot of learning to walk in the fog. Navigate with my eyes shut, so to speak. Listen to different information, and try to make some sense of it. Everything takes practice.
Just to clarify, I don’t mean broadcasting every thought and feeling that goes through you. I do mean suppressing the things you like or believe in, because you know the other person won’t appreciate it.
I try very hard not to do this. I don’t mind if we disagree about things — and I don’t even mind if we’re very different (where is the fun if everyone is the same?) — but I would like them to know my opinions about things, just as I like to know about theirs (because I love them! It makes it a part of who they are).
I was in a three-year relationship with a Taurus who had a Scorpio moon and an Aries mars (Leo rising). I felt extremely protected and safe with him but on the flip side there was definitely a “father knows best” thing going on which I eventually had to break free of (not that I thought of him as my father … but I did look to him for advice and support, which he took for guidance and which I accepted … for awhile. Mercury, Venus and sun in the 7th, what can I say).
There is nothing wrong with other kinds of relationships if they work somehow, but for me the whole thing needs to be balanced. If one person is dead set on influencing the other one, then they should also be prepared to be influenced in return.
Self disclosure is limited I think. People often have a very dim view of who they truly are, and this view tends to be heavily obscured by the fantasies they construct about who they think they are. It helps a great deal to see who they socialize with and the quality of their relationships, esp personal, non-professional ones. How does their behaviour change around different ppl? Do they have old friendships or not? Would you trust their friends? How do they treat those they dislike? etc. The answer to the last question is esp revealing.
Venus sextile Neptune. Took me so long to realize i’d been wanting the fantasy to be real. Their (men)not going to fit my expectations.
Yes, I have expereienced the men that have said “I don’t look at porn, that’s cheating”…only to find them insanely obsessed with it. Or the “I don’t drink” addict.
@Becca: I know what you mean..! “When you get there, there isn’t any there there..” Aah I love that! Haha I have goosebumps 🙂 Finally someone that gets it!
Sharing isn’t superficial to me so I’m selective about my privacy. For example I usually won’t share information that is is painful and not totally processed, it’d be a burden and unfair to both parties. Plutonics are usually the one who are able to hear, plus they’re actually interested, they want to know and share that just as much as my joys or passions. My SO’s & closer friends have some amount of Pluto or Scorpio. Just as likely, or even perhaps more even likely, some people won’t want to hear /share Joy stuff either but I don’t think that’s astrologically pin-downable. If I have to keep my joys private from a ‘nay sayer’ that will cripple that relationship if not end it.
How about Neptune-Venus in composite as well as Neptune-Sun and Moon? anyone?
I see it as a willingness/ability to be fully present in a relationship or not. I have a Pisces 7th and attract men who like to m-e-r-g-e. This means they are fully there. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t trust anything less. With a chart full of Scorpio/Pluto/8th, I dwell in the nether regions, and it’s difficult for me to be in a room full of small talk, let alone (I can’t imagine..) having a constant companion who won’t “go there.” Luckily, I have never attracted anyone like that. I don’t think I would come to life around them, so I’m sure they wouldn’t like me, either.
I used to want everything open because I grew up with most things – the important things being open. And a mother who would walk into my room at any time. So I didn’t do anything in private I didn’t want my mother to know about. So I do find it odd when others hide things. And I mean HIDE things.
I’ve learned privacy is important and no matter what it takes time to get to know someone.. they may have things hidden for a reason and knowing them immediately is not necessarily in the best interest of the relationship. However as trust and intimacy grows they need to come out and be shared. And each person has a responsibility to not bring something that will burden the other or the relationship over time – such as addiction that they lie about. So if they ask how much you drink best to reveal it asap as it’s obviously important to them.
Total agreement with Piya on this one even though I also believe everyone’s entitled to some secrets. It’s the shame factor that makes the difference. If someone just wants to be discreet, cool. But if a man’s hiding something (or more usually, things) out of a sense of shame, especially shame-based family dynamics, emotional honesty will be difficult in the long term. These people are just not worth the effort in my view unless they’re open to intensive mind-body work or therapy.
i’ll come at this from a different angle –
most people talk and say TOO much anyway. anyone who plays “perry mason” (my .02) is looking for a reason to dump somebody.
anyone (male or female regardless of astrological sign) is much more seductive and interesting when they are mysterious and don’t “spill their guts”.
this applies to early in a relationship when you are getting to know someone. AFTER you pay your dues, you get to meet my mom!
Sure, they can know all of me.
I have daddy issues.
I have abandonment issues.
I have disappointment issues.
I have abuse issues.
I have many more.
The truth is, those things are intense, and some people prefer to run the other way. I have a tunnel, a tunnel to this darkness, and about 5 minutes into this tunnel with them, they want to turn around and say, “Hey, this isn’t really what I’m thinking of…”
Of course I am trying to heal those issues now that saturn is rubbing my descendant.
I also have Aries Venus conjunct Pisces Ascendant by 2 degrees. I took the initiative to capitalize on my ability to mirror people’s projection – I of course was able to allow people to reincarnate whoever they want inside of me. Now I realize that’s just not fun.
OH, and the thing about asian girlfriend? (I’m asian). This IDIOT with yellow fever had the guts to come up to me and say, “You look so submissive… just how I like it.” HAHA, WTF? I have a packed Aries, and you say I am submissive? Grosses me out!