If Your Friend Has Depth (Is A Scorpio, 8th House Type)…

exorcistSome people come from a deep place. I’m like this. This is not to say it’s special or that it’s a preferable way to be. It’s just reality.

I have Libra, though. I can get by in social situations. But if you ever really talk to me, you’ll find I’ve got a lot of weight. Again, I don’t think if this is good or bad. It’s just the sort of person I am.

Most people who read here know that I have this friend, his name is, Ben. We met when we were young and we hit it off immediately.

This was a challenge at the time, because he’s gay and I’m not. I wasn’t welcome in his circles, the least little bit. I’m not sure he’d have been welcomed in my circles either. I don’t know – I never tried to introduce him there.  He’s the kind of person people go to, rather then being one who comes to you. However it worked out, we overcame the challenges of the era and we became close friends.

We maintained our  friendship for ten years and then something extraordinary happened – we got into a fight.

We didn’t just get into a fight. We got into a knockdown, drag-out brawl. It was shocking, because we’d literally never run into a conflict of any kind before, over the course of a decade!

So we screamed and we yelled and we spit at each other over the phone. It was pretty venomous as I recall. It spun my head around “girl-in-exorcist-style”. The fight was fairly long-lasting, and then we hung up.

I wasn’t happy or anything, but this also was not that big a deal to me. I’m Italian. I’m from a yelling culture. I’ve got Mars conjunct Mercury! So, I was truly caught off guard the next time I talked to Ben.

Ben (a non-Italian) told me that he was inordinately upset by our conversation. He was deeply upset by it. He was disturbed for days.

He said that while he valued me as a friend, he did not want us to ever fight like that again.  He also told me, solemnly, that if we did fight like that again, he was not sure he’d be able to continue in the relationship.

I don’t know how you would react to something like that, but my heart dropped to the floor. Losing his friendship was unfathomable to me. I might have burst into tears on the spot, for having ever done anything to bring him to a point where he’d have to say something like this to me.

I told him at that exact second, that I understood and that I’d  do everything in my power to make sure we never fought like that again. I valued his friendship and I’d go out of my way to protect it. He said he’d do the same.

More then 20 years have passed since we had that conversation. Ben and I have never sparred since.  I don’t think about this a lot, but I thought of it recently when I woke up in a similar drama.

I’m pretty sure, if I’d have fought Ben the day he told me this, he’d have amputated me. Justifiably. Because I’d have proved to him that my need to be right, or to think I was right, or my need to fight or to have the right to fight, or whatever, was more important then his deep feelings.

A person like Ben is his deep feelings.

I don’t think people who swim nearer the surface have any clue what people like Ben and I go through, in order to come up with what we offer other people. We don’t bother to tell you.  But many of us think, if you’re our friend, that you ought to know. If we find out otherwise, it doesn’t leave us a lot of options.

If I’d have lost Ben as a friend, twenty years ago, I’d be staggered to this day.

This is a cautionary tale. You may think you can’t lose your relationship in a heartbeat.  Maybe you read this on a Hallmark card.  Friendships bend, they don’t break!

I’m sure that’s true for some part of the population. But for others, that concept is pretty iffy.

Scorpio gets bashed for pulling out. But if he or she has been deeply involved with you, and then decides they can’t continue, generally there is a good reason why. If you can’t see it, it’s probably because you can’t see them.

I could intuit what it took out of Ben to say what he did to me that that day. I wasn’t going to make him say it twice.  Consequently, we made it beyond the breaking point we’d reached.

Have you ever had a close relationship come to it’s breaking point?  What happened? What do you know about scenarios like this?

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If Your Friend Has Depth (Is A Scorpio, 8th House Type)… — 56 Comments

  1. Hi Elsa, it’s weird you post this today, because I’ve been thinking about this since I woke up. In fact, I think about it on and off, from month to month, year to year, because a few years ago now, I ‘lost’ my two closest friends in the space of 2 years. One I had known for 13 years, the other about 4. I approached them both to talk about it, resolve it – neither interested. One of them just never contacted me again.

    I do accept it is my fault. I know that I have a charge of plutonium in me. When it flares, which is rarer than hens teeth, it flares fast, is brief, and dies down very quickly. I accept it in me. I’ve been to therapy, learned about it, worn the t-shirt. Other than my husband and my two oldest friends from school, I am yet to meet anyone who will/can/is prepared to cope with it. These three seem to be able to remember I am a generous, loving and compassionate chum who is clearly triggered, or genuinely upset about something. So even if it is awkward for a moment, we talk about it and get over it – and likewise, I with them, if they happen to have a burst.

    The ridiculous thing is, I did make the mistake of watching for my ‘flare-up’ and managing it, with those friends and with other relationships. Big mistake – because it will out! And then it is way too much; like standing behind the jet of an aircraft. So, I accept it and warn folks, and I aim to be honest with my feelings; that way, I don’t hold it in then burst. Well, not as much.

    I for one, do love your depth Elsa; I sensed you are someone who is willing to both be able to flare and understand. Willing to discuss ‘what happened’. That’s why I came to you for a consultation (highly recommended).

    I don’t know if it is a Scorpio moon 3rd house thing or not. And of course I also have Pluto in the first. Sheesh. :^)

    • Thanks, Kate. I do know both sides of this.

      In this story I told, I think I was lucky that Ben said anything to me. In fact I think he told me, if it were anyone but me, he would not be saying anything. We’d been good friends for a long time.

  2. Another thing worth mentioning, Scorpio does tend to keep a tight inner circle. It’s not the most trusting sign, at least when it comes to things that are near and dear to them. Scorpio / 8th house types are described at “self-protective”. I think this is true.

    But if you are in their inner circle, your value to them is sky-high. And I just don’t think they run around expelling people unless they absolutely have to.

    I talked to Ben about this, this week. Some of you may recall, though it’s been years), he broke off a relationship with his best friend of 20 years, about 10 years ago. It caused him enormous pain at the time. He knew he could never replace his friend…

    So we talked about this last week and in fact, he has not replaced that friend. He said he still misses him at times, but when he thinks about the pain the relationship caused him, he knows he made the right choice.

    Ben (and I) are both aware, how hard it is to find a friend and a real connection with someone. So I think we take these things very hard…and also very seriously.

    I realize not everyone wants to be involved with others at a deep level. I’m talking to those who do.

    So often with Scorpio, “you don’t miss your water till your well run dry.” This is because they feed you in ways you may not perceive – but they perceive it.

    I think it pisses some people off to say things like this, but it doesn’t change the truth in the statement.

    Saturn is in Scorpio right not. This could not possibly be more relevant.

    • Absolutely true, especially when that level of trust has been achieved is is very painful and more to break the bond. I know I only feel deep.

    • ‘…how hard it is to find a friend and a real connection with someone.’

      So true Elsa, at least for me. I had to wait until I was in my forties, to have it reciprocated that is. Though in terms of my professional life, by the nature of what I do, making real connections is what I do daily. I think it might be in part why I like my work so much, because there is mutual nurturing going on, it clearly helps me to get my needs met too. However, they are not everyday friendships – clients drift in and out of my life, as they should.

      ‘I realize not everyone wants to be involved with others at a deep level. I’m talking to those who do.’

      This is at the nub of it. Though I am also well aware that for others, it is also an area that can feel like a very strange land, not at all like home – so if they do happen to visit, they don’t want to stay long.

      At 13, people were telling me I was too intense. I didn’t even know what that meant. However, it has lasted. I even want a deep and meaningful relationship with my dog!! He’s a Gemini, so it can get a bit much – he just wants to play!!!!

      • When you’re young, you may have no clue. But as people age, then tend to discover what and who is right for them.

        I think most people like this, keep friends in concentric circles. This makes sense.

        For example, when I would go to my Woman’s Club, I got along with everyone, but felt closer to some of the women.

        To one person, I’d say, “Hello, how are you?” And I would mean it.
        To another person, I’d say, “This is some news.”
        To another person, I’d say, “This happened with my family, or I’m worried at this right now, or I had this dream the other night..”

        All the relationships are valid and honest.

        I have noticed with Saturn in Scorpio and Pluto in 12th, I don’t have as much to give, on a superficial level. I just don’t.

        I would if I could…I will again, when I can.

    • What you said about Scorpios having an inner circle and being self-protective is very true. I’ve often described this to people using the layers of the earth as an example. Outsiders never get beyond the crust, then we have the mantle, comprised of friendly acquaintances, coworkers, family — which might sound strange to people who are family oriented, but with us being related doesn’t mean you’re “in”, then there’s the outer core — many people who fall here might believe themselves to be “close” to us, if you’d ask them to describe their relationship they’d most likely refer to us as good friends, but these people despite knowing more than those residing in the mantle layer, are still not trusted with the depth you described. Only those placed in the core layer know everything, all of the deepest, sickest, darkest parts of our messed up souls because they’ve proven we can be open without judgment. There’s only one person in my life at the moment who falls in this category.

      • ‘Only those placed in the core layer know everything, all of the deepest, sickest, darkest parts of our messed up souls because they’ve proven we can be open without judgment. There’s only one person in my life at the moment who falls in this category.’

        Oh boy. Love this description Sharli. And also realise that I also have only one person who falls in this category – and that is me. Even with my beloved hubby, or my beloved therapist – I still have a bit tucked away. Only a tiny bit, but it’s hidden. Still.

        I’m ok with that though.

        • The short list of those who make it into the core (our hearts) are the most difficult to lose because if the relationship sours they know too much. Those in the other layers can be amputated with little harm to the Scorpio doing the detaching, but the core people are different. A part of you dies when you have to cut off someone you have allowed that close, but the possibility that they might use the intimate knowledge they’ve gained against you in retaliation is too terrifying to imagine. You can’t simply push them out into one of other layers, they have to go. I’ve never had more than two people in the core layer at a time.

  3. I do not let go of my perceived hurt easily. With all the Scorpio and 8th house I have that’s probably inevitable. I can relate to many of the stories with Ben in them. For me sharing feelings is not always the most natural thing. I have a couple friends with natural inner fire able to explode and forget. Can be quite the admirable quality, especially if both people are prepared and understand each other’s perspective. I do always leave room if a friendship should falter, but depending on the details it may take a lot of time and if trust was damaged then a whole lot more.

  4. 8th house moon always shared feelings. Fat lot of good it did me. Best to keep quiet in most situations. Change the conversation or my behavior between us, or distance and fade away.

    I do have a few life long friends. We sometimes don’t connect for years and when we do, it’s old home week. Like nothing’s changed.

  5. Yes. Maybe a person isn’t aware of what drills straight to another’s soul. Or maybe they do know and they carelessly use it against you. Oops – fatal mistake. I put my best friend out to pasture years ago.

    • It’s a good point, GTO.

      I don’t know what bothered, Ben so much that day – we were both yelling. It was really none of my business, unless he wanted to tell me.

      The fact he was considering ending the relationship over it, was enough to tell me I was in waters where I best not splash around, unless I wanted to lose my friend.

      I didn’t want to lose my friend! Crap! I knew he was one in a million, the day I met him.

      • Meeting my best friend seemed like destiny. too. Facing the truth killed me as much as ending the friendship. But we agreed at that time that maybe, just maybe, we might look each other up in twenty years or so. That did happen.

        • That’s a good ending.

          Ben saw his friend fairly recently – staring daggers at him, all green-eyed.

          But he said he’s never replaced him, and knows he never will. There are new people in his life, a lot of them, but this was a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

          • So true, some people can not be replaced. But I’m grateful to experience it. Even though some ties are so deep that they hurt. I’m grateful to know I can feel completely.

  6. Agree Bruce, I admire people who can fight & forget. It must be freeing. In my deepest friendships that is completely out of the question. I cannot. I am shaken to the core by conflict with close friends & a fight? I don’t know how we could survive it; it would feel like a mauling, like death.

    • I was also a middle child and learned early to be the peacemaker. I have people at work with all sorts of temperaments I know where each will serve the best situation to situation. Draining at times with my introvert side, but as long as things do not escalate too too far I’m in good shape =) I prefer people get along, but I also love to experience different people’s points of view

  7. I really appreciate this post, cause of the husband. I would love to hear posts along a similar vein… like if you’re friend is a sunny, leo type.

  8. This post has helped my understand myself better. Thank you elsa. This is probably my favorite post you’ve ever written.

  9. No, we really don’t run around cutting people off unless we really have to. For me, I literally have to be at a point where I simply cant take it anymore. Whatever “it” may be varies from situation to situation. And no, Scorpions dont ever forget, nor replace, people they have let into that inner side of them…even if amuptation is necessary at some point.

  10. Elsa, first let me start by saying thank you for posting this topic. I can identify with everyone’s views here. I have 8th house and sometimes I am so intense. It’s not the superficial relationships that bother me, but the ones that matter. I know I can be intense, so I try to not be so serious all of the time. Fortunately the only time I am really like that is at home, away from the public eye. I work in sales, so it’s better for me to keep as much of it as light as possible.

  11. Excellent post. I’m an 8th house sun, and I’ve had quarrels like this… And I’ve amputated people, too, sadly.

    I had a really close friend for 10 years, loved her, as she me. I put up with a lot of her crap, she with mine. But there was a turning point where I had to point out to her that she had lied to me about something, and embellished about other things.

    I brought up what she had done, but she wouldn’t have any of it, and was amazingly diffident about it, hiding behind more lies and a little bit of hysteria. So I told her that I thought she was selfish, which was the toughest thing I’d ever said to her. That was that, she couldn’t take it (and she wasn’t normally selfish, just sometimes a bit unconscious about her dealings with people, including me, and as a shy and anxious person, she was hard-pressed to think of herself as “selfish.”) Anyway, she amputated me, or rather, we amputated each other. I still feel sad about it, but guess it made me think hard about what it’s like to be friends with an 8th house person: they can really cut through the bullshit, and sometimes it’s too much to ask of their friends (though a poster’s comment above about keeping one’s opinions to one’s self is quite right on.)

    And had she dealt with her unconsciousness and lies, I would have totally forgiven her…

  12. I wish I was as italian as you Elsa!regarding the yelling thing…my mercury-chiron and heavy libra have blocked my voice for very long, but things are moving fast now…

    If I was caught up in a fight like that in your post, I’d react exactly the same as Ben did…after several days.I’d need space and time to recover,and if I was to actually yell..who knows what could happen to my vocal chords??
    i’ve got pluto-moon-venus-jupiter and normally swim so underwater that it takes me a while to adjust to an average frequency where other people can understand me.
    as you say, it’s not better or worse,it’s just this way.

    in conflicts with friends, I can’t track similar episodes.9 times out of ten, the other person left abruptly.I made up my mind they were not real relationships, based on mutual respect.now I’m giving up being the perpetual people-pleaser, and I can count my friends of half a hand’s fingers, I’m learning to appreciate depth.however, it’s demanding.

  13. This resonates with me – the depth of feeling and the amputation and people I don’t very well telling me I’m heavy, man. But…. But…. I’m not particularly 8th house or Scorpio. Does Pluto in the 1st count? Hmmm…

    • Welcome, dawn_chorus, I don’t like that either…being told to lighten up. Being told to do or be anything, really.

      I don’t know anyone who wants to be edited. If you ask for advice, that’s different. But telling a person how they ought to be is ludicrous in my mind.

      This conversation always reminds me of the astrologer/psychologist who used to hang around here, telling what was wrong with me. I told him if I wanted his opinion, I would pay for it. I would hire him, see? No boundaries.

      He couldn’t stop to save his life. Every remark he made was about what he thought was my psychology.

      He could not see that his psychology was on display via his obvious obsession with me – a stranger he had never met and never would.

      Eventually, I had to block him. He insisted on distracting me, and I have quite a job keeping this place together, then and now, never mind my family and myself.

      I really don’t know if people know how draining they are. I used to be extremely draining to people. I kind of knew it, but denied it so I could keep on draining people.

      I finally outgrew that, thank God.

  14. Elsa, your post is important and a great tip for those with friends like this, deep and sensitive.

    It’s a lucky thing that a scorpionic/8th house/plutonic person states a boundary and deep need and feeling to a dear friend as a key to dealing with them and often as a loving warning (when things are getting too far.)

    I’m scorpio rising, have moon and mars in 8th and moon trine pluto. I also have some scorpionic friends. I had a few too.

    A dear friend with moon in scorpio who shared my study of astrology kept on diminishing my experiences and feelings while dating. I knew her marriage was breaking down and was in pain yet I stated my needs and boundaries for her to be more compassionate with me. It ended badly with she shouting at me on the phone one day I asked her to speak kindly to me about my love mistakes rather than put me down or boss me. I gave her warnings and had to hang up as she had insulted me in the end. We never spoke again. I sometimes think of her but I am glad it ended.

    I was amputated by a scorpio rising months after making a passing comment which she took offence with. She never told me how she felt and kept meeting me. One day she sent me an email speaking her heart, saying it was over, no need to try contacting her anymore. She wished me unhappiness in life.

    It hurt and I still think of her. Pity she didn’t say how she felt before it was too late. I later realised that years before I had been in a similar situation and had amputated someone before sharing my feelings around their behaviour with me via email. This person was quite unaware and might have changed had I told her what she was doing more, or not (someone else amputated her too for the same reasons.)

    After that mail I said I’d state my feelings and needs to friends when they hurt me/gone a bit far for me. It has worked well. One close friend returned to my life a year after a fight apologising (her husband had same complaints I had had so she was more aware) and we’re closer than ever, challenging each other compassionately and safely (checking boundaries every so often) Very happy she reconsidered. Took me a few years to fully trust her again (no betrayals, just bad boundaries) but I did and she honors this and I thank her for coming back as I am a bit hard in contacting amputees.

    Being amputated sucks. I am sure a former astro friend did this silently (I was more controlling and had worse bundaries at the time so maybe I did/say something- I’ll never know)

    But it happens, amputations/losses. Especially with scorp/plutonian/8th H energy?

    I regret some amputations but no huge regrets. I have better boundaries now and can state them better. My boyfriend has chart ruler in 8th H and moon and mercury trine pluto.

    Once he states his need and boundary a couple of times (neptunian here) I listen and try to follow.

    Good post and sharings thanks

  15. The one who sent me the email never told me about my passing comment till she wrote her feelings ine the long email. I learned so much about letting people know something had bugged/hurt me after that email as the amputation hurt for months

    Of course some people are just impossible and are best dealt with amputations. These days I prefer the piscean way like swimming in the opposite direction once I spot a leopard. Or with a stare and direct comment if defense is needed, martian (scorp or arie) way. Lol

    Anyhoo, lessons learned. Thanks for listening to me going on an on.

  16. Yes Elsa, I know where you’re coming from, I’ve got sun in eighth house Capricorn (plus Pluto transiting there at the moment) so there’s more to me than my social smiles and exuberant enthusiasm (jupiter conjunct uranus in fifth house square sun)I like people especially the fire signs and scorpios. I like emotional people (including the angry ones – I’ve got moon in aries) but I set boundaries. I’ve just fallen out with a dear friend and I know it’s eternal. We have (oops ..had) a purely platonic relationship but he overstepped a boundary that I told him not to cross. If he had respected me like I him, he wouldn’t have done this. A boundary was put there to protect our relationship. His attempt to cross this barrier was a personal assault on me and all that is of value to me in a friendship. This breach of trust has cost us our relationship, he says I’m too hard but I can’t live any other way. Enjoy your open, honest posts Elsa, many thanks.

  17. Thank you, Elsa, for this post. I have everything going on the 8th House and I relate very deeply to your friend’s reaction. If I can explain it from my point of view, and I have had similar experiences, an argument like that would be just too superficial – the sort of rows, hair-pullings, threats and ordinary casual violence we see around us everyday. And then the participants pick themselves up and walk away from it: that was then, this is now, I’m not mad with you anymore, so don’t be mad with me. Lol, lol, lol. As an 8th person, nothing is ever gone, ever over, and nothing is lol, lol, lol. – not because we nurse a grudge, but because we are so aware of emotional and physical violence and we take it very seriously. We know where it can go – even you would never go that far, we have an instinct where it all leads. Don’t even play at it. I think you reacted in exactly the right way. Tell the 8th house person you know what happened, don’t pretend it was all a misunderstanding, and make a promise neither of you will go down that road again. They would appreciate the fact that you are not trying to cop out and would trust you even more.

    BTW, I dislike this talk casual talk of “amputation”. My 8th house – which is all about self and the other – says you only do this when you are literally about to be extinguished if you carry on in this relationship. It isn’t short-hand for cutting off social media communication with someone, or moving out of their house or neighbourhood, or not talking to them at work, or refusing to deal with an “ex”. “Amputation” means losing a limb because it has gone gangrenous. You will suffer tremendously from it. It won’t make you feel empowered, strong or in control. You will do it because you have no choice. And you certainly won’t chat about it on public message boards, because even to go back to the moment you did it will fill you with terror and remorse.

    • I like your comments very much, but want to ask you to think about what you say re: amputation. I disagree that amputation has to do only with “losing a limb,” or gangrene, etc. It could just mean you can’t have that person in your life, quite simply and lightly. My friend who lied to me (see above) was dishonest and lied about me as well. I miss her, and our breakup was intense, and I feel bad and remorseful, but I do have other friends, and I knew that eventually, I’d get over it.

      What I’m saying is that despite the 8th house power-and-hypersensitivity issues, that for me, there’s sometimes in my head what has felt like not just drama, but melodrama, too. To this effect, moving on from my friend was necessary, but it wasn’t terrifying. It’s hard to be this intense sometimes, and I really try to work with it, massage it, play it down, move past it, instead of feeding into my feelings about it–I’m able to do this better and better the older I get (almost 52). Cause I know that sometimes I get looks or comments like, “Sheesh, she’s really intense! Give it a rest, already…” And I really want to. So my friend and I broke up, like who cares? Life goes on. I try to remember that everyday doesn’t have to be an 8th-house psychodrama. I wonder if others have the same experience…

  18. As someone with 4 personal planets in the 8th, and the remaining personal planet tightly conjunct Pluto (in trine to personal 8th House planets), I can totally relate. I’ve only had to end one friendship in my entire lifetime, and am now in my early 50s.. I have never fought with any friend though, not since maybe grade school and that doesn’t count. But once I do cut someone off – friend, acquaintance, family member, whatever – they’re gone forever with no possibility of restoring the relationship. It takes a lot for me to get to that place and it’s nowhere I ever want to risk going again.

  19. I’m really glad you wrote this, it hits home in a very helpful way, I am grateful for the insight :)

    This statement: “Scorpio gets bashed for pulling out. But if he or she has been deeply involved with you, and then decides they can’t continue, generally there is a good reason why. If you can’t see it, it’s probably because you can’t see them.” says it all for me. I’ve been thru enough ‘breaking points’ and splits (though one would have been totally enough for me) to get this. In most cases, I am not seen (12th house sun adds in here).

    What I find interesting, is how this plays out in relationships that are not so easily withdrawn from (like marriage). Mr. Leo is very fiery (that’s an understatement, really) with his sun conjunct mars in leo trining Jupiter. Even with all my ways to transcend all the ‘knock down, drag outs’ we’ve been through, have taken a serious toll,
    Angie

    I’d also second this statement: ““you don’t miss your water till your well run dry.” This is because they feed you in ways you may not perceive – but they perceive it.”

  20. Heh, this makes me smile because it’s so true. I’m so good and patient and easy to work with (10th Pisces Moon) as long as you don’t force it down my throat (6th Mars Scorpio opp 12th Taurus Saturn) but when I’ve had enough- I quit, that’s it, I’m moving on. And because of my lovely Moon/ Pluto opposition T-square Cap Mercury you might as well be dead. If I didn’t drop a nuke on you on the way out. Death is actually easier for the heavy Moon/Pluto people because it’s permanent truth. I’ll fight with you and for you to the death, also very good at convincing you my way is best or that it was your idea all along (Cap Sun in the 7th now with a Pluto transit). Mostly it’s good to just bide my time and deal with the reality of the situation until it turns. We can wait forevvvvvvver) Also have a 6th Scorp Venus, Jupiter & Neptune conjunction late degrees. My poor Gemini mom….

    • sk8samuri, I have pluto squaring my sun/moon opposition, and I’d second what you said: “Death is actually easier for the heavy Moon/Pluto people because it’s permanent truth. ” That makes total sense to me and I’d agree,
      Angie

  21. I have so much to say about this topic. But, it takes a lot out of me to talk about it. 5 planets in Scorpio….. that’s a lot of water.

    I had this Cancer friend for years. I kept leaving hints. I thought she understood I could hardly take more of what she was doing. But, I loved her. Not in a romantic way. I have a husband that I adore. But, I loved her. I made a mistake giving like I did. Twice we fell out. She was so selfish. I know she was caught up in the drama of her life and things weren’t easy but I just didn’t have any more to give. She gave nothing in return and I understood that because she was going through so much that was part of it, but it made me recognize that when she was not going through her trials and tribs she still gave so little. It was so one sided.

    After being exhausted, giving her as much as I could to help hold her up, I found out she said something very petty about me. I was crushed. It was so painful to hear. But, I think I knew this anyway….before I was told. I had to let it go. She came back around a couple of times. Just recently actually. But I was so wounded. I can’t do it. There is a scar and it wont heal.

    My mother is a cancer. She did the same thing. Not that long ago. I was crushed. Hurt beyond the ability to forgive. I am able to forgive. But I can’t forgive the deep cuts. The kind that leave open wounds … the pain is too immense. I can’t get over it. I can get over slights and stupidity, but not that kind of betrayal.

    It hurts to miss them. I love them both. It hurts far worse to be with them. I just can’t do it. I raised my mothers children. I propped my friend up for 30 years. They must not have thought much of what I did I guess. If they did they would have never hurt me like that. Pain that will last for the rest of this lifetime. They hurt me worse than any man has. I trusted them. I gave. I was open and vulnerable. I was used and talked about. I doubt I can ever get over it.

    The thing that puzzles me is they don’t understand why I am gone. Cancers are usually deep caring people and I tend to get along with them famously. They seriously don’t understand why I have walked away. I have heard they both cry about this. It has no effect on me. I won’t go back. I have 50 years in with my mother and 30 with the friend. They wasted my heart and part of my soul. I gave so much energy to those two relationships….and they sucked me dry to the bone. In a blink without giving it any deep thought or a memory of how much I gave they both chose to hurt me.

    This is not a poor me story. Please don’t think I feel sorry for myself. I don’t. I gained truth and lesson from it. I swim in a small pond. I always have. There are few that have the key to my door.

    I hear people talk so shitty about Scorpio. If they had any idea the kind of pain one can feel, they wouldn’t do it anymore. A random person could throw a rock at me and it wouldn’t faze me but those two, they took so much out of me that I am not sure there is anything left. It’s so sad. Heartbreaking really. But, there is no way to fix it. I wish I could describe in words the feeling I get when I think I might have to see one of them again. It’s a sickening feeling of the worst betrayal in the pit of my stomach and the thought of seeing either of them would put me in bed for a week, because I remember what I gave and how little they thought of it.

  22. yes,”amputation” talk definitely stirs a lot..I’m focusing on the fact that my mother is a scorpio with pluto-chiron on her own moon and pluto on my moon, and that scorpio women have always been my haunters. relationship with her was the first damage.I can connect the dots up to the relationship with the man who forced me to change my life by seriously threatening my mental balance.he’s all 8th house, with moon conj pluto uranus in 1st,and our strongest contacts occur in both 8th houses.overwhelming and devastating for someone in desperate need for boundaries as I am.
    depth cannot be handled without safe boundaries,can it?
    btw, the women I found most difficult to stay in touch with were very plutonian and also unaware of themselves, I don’t mean to be judgmental here, but they were in denial as to what was happening between us,so no confrontation was ever possible and they just disappeared. a recurring pattern in my life,which has had me believe for long that I was “heavy” or draining on people(venus conj saturn).I can still be draining if I slip back into my clinging cancer -wounded-moon frequency, but I believe now that as long as I run into the same kind of people I have something to excavate inside myself..so it’s a good sing that a certain kind of manipulative people don’t seem to be drawn to me any more.but I keep attracting pluto-scorpio-8th people all the time..so I can’t forget for a moment how I need to handle my own intensity without assaulting people energetically(due to childhood needs).the fact is, I simply cannot relate to anyone whose layers are less than…many. if someone labels a reaction of mine as “exagerate” or “dramatic”, I have a hard time understanding what they mean,because tragic and extreme feelings are within me since a kid.I suffered a lot in relationships, asking for this part of myself to be recognized,until I found I had to accept it inside and dedicate myself to carry off some burden of her hurt feelings,without amputating her intensity.

    thank you so much for sharing …I’m learning a lot.

  23. I like being a deep person, you learn a lot about yourself..which makes it easier to read others. If you put so much effort into a relationship but get cut, it hurts but to us it hurts to cut others even more but there is no other way if you gave warning but the person doesn’t listen, a person who values you as a person and the relationship will listen, and really take to heart what you say, not that proves you have a wonderful friend. I like that sort of bond..you meet on an intuitive level, a special language that no one else understands..why will anyone want to lose that? Elsa you are lucky ;) Us Scorpios play hard and rough but that’s the way we always roll :D We are heavy, you need to be really strong to handle a Scorpio and understand the deep..and to let us open up in time or else we need to move on.. I’ve moved on but take with me the lessons I learned from the relationship..it’s to us a lesson for the next ones. We carry around everything and remember even the little things and they act like armor for us. I never look as lost relationships as bad..I just get a stronger armor :) We are very wise people..and just come from the deep, hidden wonders of the world, like an onyx..just make a statement without words needed to be said. I love that..not having to speak but having the other person to just know..understand our inner self..that’s the bond we want. Fights just shake us to the core..this person is suppose to be the go to..the stability we need and a fight can bring a break..it’s difficult for us to find people who look past the toughness and get to know us, we don’t want to lose that..:( but sometimes it can’t be salvaged and we cry but become stronger instead from that and want to try harder next time. But if someone is a total gem then get over a stupid fight, talk and the friendship becomes stronger so either way we win… Awesome. Love us for who we are and we will love you double…it’s true. We are deep feeling people..that’s all. Oh yeah friendships dont bend…that’s like say oh well..just forgive and forget…ah nope..it just breaks..some things can’t be forgiven. We only leave if there is a good reason…thats for sure but it’s up to you to figure out the reason because we will already be gone. I don’t like walking backwards but just keep moving ahead to the next story. It’s more adventurous and a new start..we got some Mars energy to play with. Just love us for who we are or move out of the way..we keep Rollin until we find people who understand the levels..they are the keepers. We are moody..so if the person is still there after a storm..whoa you’re good ;) love from this steel plated Scorpio..I understand completely what everyone is saying and totally agree..

  24. I know a fair bit about scenarios like this & what you have written & how the two of you resolved this one is pure Awesome!! Really, it’s how it SHOULD be done… & how it should work out =)

  25. Yet another excellent blog post Elsa. And reading through all the comments makes me feel my own heaviness as there is so much to relate to, but lack energy to say more..

  26. Exactly soup, we don’t feel sorry for ourselves..we gain truth and lessons from a hurt. It makes us stronger :) you are gaining strength. If only they knew…but I doubt any Scorpio will change their sigh for all the gold in the world..to be another sign. We are the deepest sign, powerful and wise..we learn fast and remember the hurt for it to be our guard, like a flashback to keep us safe. We had many built in devices to keep us on track..it’s automatic, it’s so cool.
    I know that feeling..it’s like a nervous frozen feeling in the stomach..numbness..it means these people were suppose to be the most important, reliable people..in your life, that pain is a million times more painful so it makes you feel
    numb because it’s like bats in your stomach..but I know what you mean. It’s a gross feeling..I have that feeling went it comes to seeing my Gemini brother…we haven’t spoken to each other for over a year..I used to get that feeling you described, just by being in the same room as him..certain things can’t be forgiven but when it’s family..the hurts like I would imagine a Samurai sword through the stomach would feel.

    But…we become stronger and wiser..and the ones that we can trust are like the best people in the world..they make everything else float away..they are beautiful and precious.. and we value them even more because we truly see how wonderful they are by seeing the gross and ugliness in others.. oh yeah and family is who makes you feel loved..no matter if you’re not related at all. Hey even my dogs are my family :)

  27. Mastery of expression (fire), intellect (air), and the material world (earth) has been accomplished and is respected. Emotional (water) mastery is still in the works and the mastery seems (to me) to be being accomplished in opposition to an oppressive template (Western Psychology) and within an emotional wasteland (how many people in your life choose to “check out” with prescription or non- prescription drugs?).
    It is within the process of amputation and reuniting and forgiving that my soul is ripped open and I get to FEEL. I get to allow feelings to happen and accept every one of them- even despair and disgust- as though each were a precious child to me. So, I can embrace and love the people in my life that bring the feelings out of me.
    There is no greater experience- not entertainment, not logic, not ownership- than the feeling I get when I connect with another human being in love, be it friend love or intimate. Connecting after an amputation? All the more the thrill and joy in being cared about despite my faults.

  28. Elsa, thanks yet again for a significant topic. I have Saturn and Pluto (different signs) in the 8th house and it explains a lot about me.

    • Not sure I agree with you. I know plenty of people, like me, with life-long drama-free friendships. I’m part of a group of ladies that have had weekly “Girls Night Out” every Tuesday for 10+ years. There’s no fighting or discord in the group. Serene people have serene relationships. Agitated people have agitated relationships. Those with drama in ALL their relationships, should look for the common denominator: themselves.

      • This is an oversimplification.
        I am serene. In fact, people, strangers even, tell me all the time how calming my presence is. I work hard on it. I attract and care for the agitated. It’s my career. I am the one my patients, friends and family turn to when their lives are changing in a big way (divorce, cancer, dying, coming out, etc.) and they need support.

        Ignorance IS bliss! But, we all do not have such luxury. I see lovely ladies in groups out and about having fun. Good friends. Good times. I have never belonged to a group like that outside of perhaps latin club or a study group in grad school over 15 years ago. I live on the social fringe, here when you need me, ready to lend a shoulder when life gets hard. Not quite welcome or comfortable in the group because I just plain do not belong there. I serve a different purpose.

        Stellium in Scorpio Love!

  29. How your text makes me ache. Even me, who has Pluto in 1st and is a known lonerider, I still have a hard time realising that people do amputate other people from their lives. And it happened to me. After months and months of testing, I finally got amputated and completely ignored, and I still haven’t gotten over it. Unlike me, they didn’t have a stellium in Capricorn (incl. Venus) which, at least in my case, makes it pretty much impossible to ever forget someone I have loved. Or someone I still love and most likely always will.

    All of my other relationships have passed my stupid tests, but not this one. The silent wrath of Taurus Sun/Saturn.

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