On Borrowed Time (Scorpio, Pluto, 8th House)

scientist bug“A period of uncertainty during which the inevitable consequences of a current situation are postponed or avoided.”

That’s the definition of “borrowed time” per The Free Dictionary, which adds:

Often used with on: terminally ill patients living on borrowed time; an unstable government that existed for months on borrowed time.

I want to discuss this concept in relation to Scorpio or those with a heavy 8th house, or Pluto prominent.  While these people may be on borrowed time themselves, more often they the “time-lenders” and it’s not always because they are benevolent.

I am talking about a situation where a person knows they’re probably going sever a relationship with you, just not today.

They may be benevolent, pulling away slowly so that you can adjust. They may be waiting until your birthday passes or you get through some crisis so they can leave you on solid ground.

But they may also be extending you credit so they may study you, long after they know your gig is up.  Or it may be they’re busy with other priorities so this clock is left ticking.

Will anyone cop to doing this?  What have you observed?


Comments

On Borrowed Time (Scorpio, Pluto, 8th House) — 54 Comments

  1. When I was younger, I immediately left when I realized things are over (Aquarius rising), getting a bit older, I thought I was to quick to judge and stayed a while hoping things get better (Pluto in the 8th) or thought I could deal with things. This is the worst idea you can have! Using your gut feelings is better.

  2. I suppose I could say I do this but I don’t do it on purpose and not with everyone. There are some people that I will leave when the time is right and that’s consciously. So after all that… yeah I do.

  3. I’ll admit to this part, specifically at work where severing a work relationship can sometimes not be an option.

    “”But they may also be extending you credit so they may study you, long after they know your gig is up. Or it may be they’re busy with other priorities so this clock is left ticking.””

    I have noticed many people never change bad behaivior even when you reach out to them.

  4. My Scorpio Moon/Saturn ex reconnected with me, stayed in touch for about a year, then vanished.

    It was because he wanted us to get back together (unspoken), but I was already married with a family by then. He didn’t want to destroy that, so he left.

  5. Yes, pluto squares saturn, so it’s all in the timing. I was in a conversation with two women who were married, to men, not each other. They are like soul companions. I love seeing them together. Anyway, they were talking how they knew they had to leave their alcoholic husbands of many years but hesitated and then one day ‘snap’ it was the end. The taurus sun got right on it and filed papers. The pisces sun taurus moon needed to orchestrate her filing more carefully because he was really unstable. But I can relate to that Snap when all uncertainty is gone and I know, and also the timing on the departure. It has to ‘feel right.’ Whatever that means. Perhaps 8th house moon.

    I am working on understanding my current relationships here on the ground. And for that I have to admit to what irritates me and zoom out and ‘not take it personally’ as satori recently wrote. There’s alot going on in their lives that I don’t see that affects them. scorpio asc. saturn in scorpio (but progressed into sag????) 8th house moon.

    Maybe I do study them somewhat in a quest for balance in our relationship, but if I want the relationship I have to do the adjustment. If I reach my limit, well then it’s over.

  6. i have been the recipient of this so so so many times…it is so painful to have the rug pulled out and realize what this is.

    my ex did this to me for ages and i was so insulted and hurt when i finally woke up. my god, 8 years in you think i’m too weak to take the truth? fuuuuuuck you. it is because i called him on it, he still runs around telling people *i* left *him*. no way is that true.

    most recently a woman who was one of my best friends for 16 years did this. when the energy shift began i was confused…i am intuitive to the point of psychic. i might have even dreamt about it. but she gave me just enough energy to keep me confused, before she axed me.

    i was hurt, yes, but something has changed in me permanently, now. for the better. no more crazy people who think *i’m* the charity case. talk about neptune-style delusion…

    natally i have saturn in my moon-ruled 8th (and a natal moon in capricorn).

  7. I feel like I live my life this way, particularly with relationships and work. I see each new opportunity or encounter as a sort of stepping stone. I may stay at one stone longer than another, but I don’t intend to stay there, or harbor illusions that I actually can if/when the time comes to move; eventually, the next “stone” presents itself and I have to move.

    With Saturn in Scorpio/Pluto in Capricorn(my 12th house), I feel I’ve become much more aware of this natural tendency. The challenge for me has been, knowing when the time is up, when to move on.

    I’ve been in situations where I stayed beyond the “allotted time”, and also where I probably jumped the gun, and could have benefited from greater patience. This often correlates to me thinking I should stay in circumstances longer because my support is helpful, or leaving early because it seems there’s not much I can add to–or gain from–a situation.

    It seems like a convoluted way of operating sometimes, but I can’t really help it. I have Pluto conjunct my Sun in Scorpio. This is weirdly offset with a Taurus Moon, so that change often comes slowly, and almost painfully, because I rather like settling down.

  8. Holy crap yes! I do this. For a multitude of reasons. What gets me is when I say “time’s up” they actually act surprised. I have tried different ways of handling this, but to no avail. When I was young I would hide my feeling, cappy moon you know. Then I would get accused of amputating and being unfair, as in give me a chance. OK maybe you are right, so I thought I was evolving, “Hmmmm, here is your 3 minute warning” still to no avail. People have told me I’m too thin skinned, or I give people too much of the benefit of the doubt, pisces and sag. OK so maybe I need to learn compassion and tolerance. Then I get told I’m a doormat, ugghhh. Jeez what is wrong with me? Maybe I fear intimacy? OK, that’s close enough . . . . more 8th house stuff, right? I have even tried to explore the “I am afraid of needing” and tried the “I want” approach and still nothing.
    Long story short, when you don’t give me what I need and I have given you every opportunity to do so, well. Don’t blame me when I slip away.

    I have heard, “I didn’t think you loved anymore” more time than I can count. Believe it or not those words actually hurt. So why are you so surprised I slipped away? You didn’t nothing, to fertilize the garden and now that the fruit of the vine are thistles you pout???????

    After sifting through all of the above what it boils down to is this, you didn’t listen, or hear me or take me serious when I gave you the three minute warning.

  9. He almost left me yesterday, after issues in his social and inner worlds overwhelmed him. I showed him how selfish he was being, leaving me with my nearest family 900mi away. Alone, in debt, with compromised resources.
    He hadn’t seen it that way and stayed. Cancelling his one way ticket to “somewhere” just an hour before he was to take off.

    And here I am today thinking “why did I tell him to stay?” I have no power with him in the picture, no control. I’m so absorbed in him and he’s so absorbed in himself that I’m beginning to realize that even if our financial house were stable it still simply won’t work. I will lose myself.

    I’m struck with exactly what you describe. Borrowed time. I might have been better off if he had boarded that plane yesterday, but I couldn’t stand the thought of our story ending like that.

    …leave in September, or the end of August. I told him I’d go anywhere with him if he had a solid plan, but I don’t think that’s true.

  10. I did this with every relationship up until now – I like to think I’ve evolved during Saturn in Libra & first Saturn return in Scorpio. Libra sun & Mercury, Aquarius moon, Mars/Venus in 8th, lots of Sagittarius.

    Wanted to study them, but end up learning more about myself. Also if you’re ice-cold, you;re vulnerable to getting burned.

  11. I have done this strategically with work relationships that no longer serve and have begun to harm. I don’t think this is a bad way to be in a work context. It just seems ordinary and strategic for me.

    As I get older I don’t do this with friends because I’ve learned how to filter the people who want “stuff” that I have. But when I was younger I was naive and unprotected and didn’t know people were energy vampires or that I had things that others wanted and would bleed me and hang me out to dry. I just never learned how to recognize this type until my Saturn return (in the 11th). I amputated swaths of people who just wanted to be around me for reasons I didn’t like, that the person wanted things I have that I don’t even think are mine to give. I have Sun/Pluto. And a big 8th/9th stellium that opposes Uranus.

  12. Sometimes you know a relationship won’t work out, and you have to distance yourself.

    But that is far different from using people, and discarding them for convenience.

    I’m not going to be a stepping stone again. It goes from “you’re my best friend” to the cold silence for no reason.

  13. My whole life.

    But there’s something else — the 8th house knows that whatever intense drama is ensuing with the other person — however it is playing out, and however long — it is going to end. So I — *we* I think, believe all relationships are on borrowed time.

    If it’s a natural enemy, we are setting up to win the final round. If it’s a friend or someone we love deeply, we are setting up to leave them better than we found them.

    We play a very, very long game.

    • “If it’s a natural enemy, we are setting up to win the final round. If it’s a friend or someone we love deeply, we are setting up to leave them better than we found them.” Eureka!

      THIS is probably the essence of pluto in (especially) scorpio in the 8th or scorpio in general. Whew! So many things make sense to me now. I have struggles with authorities (saturn in 10th sagittarius) and i have done my share of ‘cutting offs’ with friends and even ideas/ideologies. It used to disturb me years ago, now its a very natural/holistic exercise.

  14. I think its stupidity to leave someone for a selfish reason because your own selfishness may get the best of you. Its guised under self transformation but really its your own motive that is sneaky and put to the test here. You never really know how much you need that person until he or she is gone. And they get too proud to admit and relinquish the idea of leaving. But they move on and now their friendships are not like wine but like milk, barely fermented and barely of old age and much time spent. What a pity. I am glad I give people the benefit of the doubt even if they prove to be pretentious because I have no guilt or shame to feel in the end. I feel fine.

  15. “If it’s a friend or someone we love deeply, we are setting up to leave them better than we found them.” – I do this for my ex.

    I look to see if he is doing better in his current relationship than with me. I watch and hope I taught him something good. For now it looks not so. XD

  16. Brilliant post here Elsa. I loved reading this detail.
    Yes certainly my style here – well & truly.
    Aqua sun (10th), Saturn in Saggi (8th Pluto (5th.

  17. Great post – wonder if this happens in reverse too? Knowing you’ll begin something but waiting and studying the other party till the timing is right.

  18. Sucks. I have a Scorpio rising/heavy Pluto & 12th house stellium with Pisces Moon ‘FRIEND’ (or should i say now..’frenemy’) doing exactly this to me right now..although, truth is he shafted me back in 2011.

    Sucked me into his void. Now I’m the one in this connection just trying to delay the inevitable death of it… :-(

  19. Guilty as charged! However, I really don’t like it about myself. I would like to have the guts to have the awkward conversation. Pluto, Uranus, and Virgo eight house. Libra Sun really need to embrace that Aries in me.

  20. Did it once in a superbly well executed fashion, but he deserved it. Timing was essential. Now it’s truly about caring for the other and (for the most part) not keeping score.

  21. I have Uranus in Sagittarius 8th house..
    I still get shocked & surprised when someone amputates my ass from their lives. I never see it coming. Plus with both Pluto & Saturn Rx in Scorpio 7th house..Cancer Sun in 3rd, i hold onto those relationships with dear life & try to communicate with them about is as much as possible to salvage anything that may be left, even though i have been clearly given the thumbs down.. :-/

  22. Scorpio taking the rap again! Needy Cancer clings forever. Leo can’t believe the love isn’t there. Capricorn holds steady against any change. Libra makes nice. Aries stays in for the fight. Pisces keeps martyring with no return. Virgo keeps trying to fix everything. Sag remains eternally optimistic. Taurus won’t budge. Gemini thinks its all about communication and keeps on talking.

    Maybe, MAYBE Aquarius cuts loose soon because they never got attached in the first place.

    I don’t mean to diss on all the signs, but come on, really, who of us of any astrological configuration artfully ends relationships?

  23. A fair bit of pluto in my chart and I’ll cop to doing this. I know they’re out long before I tell them. Not so much to observe but to give them the best timing/opportunity for a smooth transition.

    Why? Cleanest cut doesn’t bleed and heals faster.

    Better for them, better for me. Clean karma, no harm, no foul.

    That might sound harsh but the few people I cut from my life are cut because I have mulled it over and chewed my cud long enough to figure out that I cannot leverage any information, comment, disccusion that might make the situation better, tolerable, livable, acceptable etc. Which means it’s time to part. So if I’ve gotten around to such a decision I don’t want bad energy pulling me down because the cut wasn’t clean.

  24. I try to fix them, and then I try to fix me so tbat I am in a very strong position and don’t feel so attached to them(him or her) anymore. Then I wait until the other person is in an ok place, and then I walk. Usually him/her is shocked. I am always surprised about this. What, you didn’t see all that effort I put in to make this work? And when the effort stopped you actually thought tbings were ok? Weren’t you paying attention?

    I don’t think this is cruel at all. I think it’s pragmatic.

  25. I have a “friend” now I know it doesn’t work for me. I hear from her only when things are bad, she wants something or to vent. Of course, she has manners and alway asks about me, but I’ve learned she wants something. I know this isn’t working for me yet giving her the heave ho…..just can’t seem to muster up the courage. It has nothing to do with studying the other person. YAWN

  26. while the pluto in scorpio generation might be some of the most effected people by this aspect since any of the pluton conjunction ascendant and just the natural dominance of Pluto being in Scorpio.

  27. I always tried to dialogue with my mate about the difficulties I was having with the relationship, but not one was ever interested in that discussion. I was supposed to be fun strong take care of it and be there for them woman. They had more important things to do. So no, they were never surprised. Truth be told, they left me long before I walked away.

  28. ooooooohkay so after reading all the comments i realize that i have done this…sorry for hypocricy, i truly don’t mean to be hypocritical. i just failed to see more angles to this.

    i think i did it simply because i didn’t know how to extract myself. this taurus doesn’t know how to break up with people. :(

  29. Sofie wrote, “Sometimes you know a relationship won’t work out, and you have to distance yourself” I don’t normally make a big show out of cutting someone out, either. I try to let it be as discreet and painless as possible (barring those who deserve a public flogging). Just recently, I waited until after one intermittent friend’s birthday, sending the usual card and fb greeting to let it fade out, so it is exactly like Elsa suggests. That relationship has been lifeless for awhile so I’ve been waiting for a timespan to come up where I slip away without it looking too mercenary. Lately I’ve found myself thinning the herd quite a bit more than I used to be willing to. No room for dead weight anymore.

  30. Guilty. Scorp rising with Gem 8th house Sun. I did this with my ex. I just kept praying that I would somehow find the love again, but I never did. I had to wait him out. He is a Taurus/Virgo Asc. He had to come to terms with it and accept that I couldn’t do it anymore. I knew if he didn’t make the move it would have been an uglier mess if I had left him. He has an awful temper. I waited a long time. But we are both happier now.

  31. I am so happy to re-think self transformation. It’s really the process but it’s really self awareness. When uranus was conjunct my IC opp natal mh pluto it all blew up. In hindsight, one of my favorite things lately, I was not being my authentic self. At everyone else’s beck? and call, I think. So natal saturn in the 1st return coming up, with uranus in aries (zodiacal 1st house), more authentic self or else is what I’m getting. And slowly but surely more authentic life expression. The trick has been not getting caught up in the hysteria of those around me.

  32. I’ll cop to it.

    I’ve pulled away slowly leaving people on solid ground. Sometimes even when the person doesn’t deserve it.

    I’ve also played mouse to study people, but I don’t let myself play mouse anymore. Too dangerous.

  33. I did this once when I was younger… the man I was involved with became increasingly jealous and possessive, and there were several very frightening incidents. Then his roommate kicked him out for not paying rent, and he temporarily moved in with one of his friends. Soon afterward, he decided to move back home to his parents’ place, several hundred miles away.

    I waited until he’d gotten settled there and I’d made some new friends at my new job, then broke it off with him. It may have been the wrong thing to do, but I was afraid of what he would do to me if I’d done it in person. Not that it helped… only a few months later he decided to move back to my town and try to rekindle things with me, to no avail. Stalked me, broke into my parents’ home.

  34. I just ran across Tony Louis’ blog this weekend while Googling Cory Monteith’s natal chart. Dig this analysis on Aaron Hernandez and the 8th house. I’ve never heard of people using sunrise charts much,but this is more than interesting: http://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/ex-patriot-aaron-hernandez-charged-with-murder/
    Here’s his take on Cory as well: http://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/glee-actor-cory-monteith-found-dead-in-hotel-in-canada/

  35. Yes, I am guilty of this. Virgo Sun with Pluto conjunct my Sun on one side and Uranus conjunct my Sun on the other, plus an Aquarius Ascendant. I have cut friendships off like this and burned many bridges. I thought I was the only one that did these things. With my Gemini Moon, it doesn’t help that I am distant with people. I have recently tried the Koch system with my chart and found that my Uranus, Sun and Pluto are in my 8th house and that fits me better than my Sun and Pluto being in my 7th. I am obsessed with the paranormal and things like Astrology and I feel like I have a personal connection with Death. I always get warnings before I lose people. My entire life has been one crisis after another, changes are constant in my life.
    My birthdata: September 21, 1970 in Killeen, Texas. I feel like I was born under some bad stars.

  36. My partner has Pluto in 8H and I may be on borrowed time. He wanted to get back together in January this year but then was arguing with me in June on our anniversary, saying I was pressuring him and that just because he experiences things differently, does not mean he doesn’t value the relationship. But since he kept arguing with me I though his intention was to express that while he does value the relationship he felt it wasn’t working, but couldn’t say so exactly because he didn’t want to hurt my feelings. So I said, “Maybe we’re better as friends.” and he said, “Ya, right. That’s what they always say.” and seemed unhappy about how all his relationships ended with his partner breaking up with him. But he wasn’t in a reconciling mood and he could tell I wasn’t going to keep entertaining the arguing, and he left. The next day he apologized for overreacting and still felt in love with me. I felt the same way and we stayed together. His life is getting better now with starting a masters degree program and I’m getting back into school to get my bachelor’s degree. I may have been on borrowed time for a long time with him, and he may be planning to leave when he’s less distracted or when he feels stronger, or meets someone he feels offers him more. I wonder if having none of my planets in his 7th house means he doesn’t see me as a life partner. My Venus is conjunct his ascendant though and my pluto is conjunct his Venus in his 9th house. But he has Uranus separating from Venus in 8H and close to Pluto in 8H. So maybe there will always be a tug of war inside him about relationships unless he meets someone with more personal planets in his 7th and 8th. His Jupiter is in my 8th and none of my planets are in his 7th or 8th.

    We both need a lot of space though and somehow our relationship seems to work for us but whatever time I have left seems worth it to me. I want the relationship to work for us and I hope it can.

    Mars in Virgo will be opposing my Mercury Pisces 9 degrees 3H and transiting Chiron in Pisces 9 degrees soon so I wonder if that’s the beginning of seeing the end for us. I guess if he withdraws I’ll know, since it’s easy enough to blame withdrawing on being busy with school.

  37. Pluto in 8th aspecting almost all the personal planets, and yes, I can very much admit to doing things like this. It happens when I become friends with someone, and over time a realize that there’s a fundamental difference between us that’s detrimental to the relationship continuing. They don’t always realize it, but I know in my gut that if things go further, it will get ugly. So I’ve had to cut myself off of certain people, and yes, I do always try to do it in a positive and healthy way, but I just know it has to get done, which often creates the “borrowed time” situation. It’s made me picky about who I let into my life and downright harsh when it comes to dating. An eighth house person is inevitably going to play mind games, no doubt about that, but depending on the person, this isn’t always a bad thing.

    By mind games, I mean that there’s a certain mental probing tactic that pluto people use in order to gauge the way you think (some are better at masking it than others). When I was younger, for example, I’d often ask people questions I knew the answers to just so I could gauge their response. Over time, I’ve resolved to allow this probing to have less insidious tendencies by openly challenging the way people think in positive ways. Scorpio pluto trine pisces ascendant pulls all of these deep seeded issues into the open, so, for me, that “borrowed” time becomes “conditional” time. I’ve learned to let new friends know, clearly, that we are friends on the condition that they work toward developing a negative characteristic that is detrimental toward a positive friendship full of growth. If they do not, or if I see that they are just too far gone into themselves, then they are indeed on “borrowed” time. I won’t waste my time with someone who is going to waste their own. Again, when I was younger, I would have a tendency to remain friends with someone on “borrowed” time as long as I percieved them as useful (pluto sextile cap sun). Otherwise, I like to help. I like to help people with their issues (Pluto trine chiron), and I’ve actually developed a lot of friendships with people who were originally antagonistic toward me, so it’s not all so gloomy and psychological. It’s about whether or not you have to potential to positively transform, and in turn help me to do the same. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

  38. I have done this. I have Pluto conjunct my Sun in Virgo and Uranus conjuncts my Sun from my 8th house. I have told people that I never keep friends for long. My life is always full of changes. In the Koch system, my Sun is in my 8th and that fits me best. I am obsessive over the unknown and I have a connection with Death. I get warnings all the time before people around me pass on. Having an Aquarius AC just makes me more impersonal along with my Gemini Moon. It can be uncomfortable, but the one constant in my life is change.

  39. I have Pluto Rx in Scorpio, in the 8th house. There have been times when I have found myself in such dark situations that I “knew” it was time to go. What did I know exactly? The outcome of the situation. I had learned throughout my life that getting close to people means pain and suffering. Love hurts. So rather than be devoured by pain again, and again … I simply let go at just the right time. Yes, I would slowly start to let go… and then vanish into thin air. Moving far, far away – deleting known e-mail addresses and various other avenues of previous communication. Sometimes I would hold out hope that they would find me, and rescue me. I would keep pictures or a letter – but I learned that I had to let go completely in order for damage to be minimal. That deep desire of being rescued was especially strong after traumatic experiences … and sometimes there would be no face to my rescuer. I simply wanted someone to find me and heal my pain. It has taken a series of TRAUMATIC events to unmask my rescuer… it has been me – all along. I am starting to learn about myself, and the dark side of my nature that doesn’t have to be. I can heal myself, and someday – I want to help others heal, too. Nobody should have to face the dark side of Pluto without getting to see what awaits on the other side… I haven’t got to see it yet, but I know there is good there. Well, I hope there is good there … I don’t want to be a bad person, or an unlovable person. I don’t want to be like my family – mentally ill, or cruel. I want to love myself, and teach others who know the suffering how to start their personal healing journey. Pluto can transform – not only destroy. I’m ready to give up my control.

  40. PlutoBabe, I thought I was reading about myself when you mentioned that you leave contacts behind and even change your emails, etc. I do that too. I have learned that in the usual chart placements, my Pluto is in my 7th with my Sun, Mercury, and Mars all in Virgo. My chart is not a fun chart. I am always in power struggles with others. My temper is terrible and sometimes I think it would be better for me to be alone. My husband understands me but I think I drive him crazy. When I discovered the Koch chart, my Sun was wedged between Uranus and Pluto. Uranus conjuncting my Sun on one side and Pluto conjuncting my Sun on the other side in my 8th house. I am obsessive over the paranormal and death. I seem to have a connection that lets me know when people I know are about to die and it freaks others out. Or maybe, I freak others out. My Gemini Moon squares my Virgo planets and I at times I feel like I am losing my mind. Being born Sept 21, 1970 in Killeen Texas at 5:33pm was a bad time. Transiting Pluto is getting closer to my 12th house and in the last of my 11th. I have left friends far behind and now, I am starting to have dreams of my past. Pluto is doing a number on me and I don’t know if I will survive it. Yet, I know that I am strong and refuse to give up. But this is a stressful time for me.

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