Describing A Person’s Deep Nature

On yesterday’s post Lies We Tell Ourselves (And Others), jana wrote that she thought this would be a great topic for the Colosseum.

Angie followed up, “Would it be possible for this to be a mini-reading/consult topic?”

Stella56 and Karrma also expressed interest and Jilly posed the question on the boards: Are you living in accord with your deepest nature?

I spent the day, thinking this through. I offer a short consult in regards to a person’s solar return. This works well for a solar return chart, but don’t think it would work for this other purpose. I am sorry, but I don’t think this would work in a 15 minute deal.

It’s a good idea in theory, but in practice, when you tell someone something about themselves, that is mostly foreign to them, it confuses them. They’ve got to be able to ask questions, that you damned well better be able to answer in way they can understand. Otherwise this is no service at all.

Imagine someone sending their data I come back with, “You are this and this and this but not this?” And what if they read it and can’t relate to to it? The odds of that are fairly high, but even if they can relate to it in some way, they are still going to need clarification.

I’m speaking from experience here and I mean experience on both sides of the equation. People have told me things about myself over the years, that they knew before I did and this stuff can mess you up if they get it wrong, or if you misinterpret what they say. In a short form, there is a huge risk of miscommunication. It would turn me into something akin to a psychic making pronouncements, when in reality, I am anything but.

I am a person of depth. If I can’t back up my statements with mountains of evidence, I am highly unlikely to say the thing in the first place and this is all lost when there’s no opportunity for dialogue.

“Elsa, you’re a ________.”
“Why do I say that?”
“For these reasons…”

Post an exchange like that, I can go off and weigh the information. A conversation like is  likely to help me, and pose minimum risk.

As to how this might work in the Colosseum, I am not sure it would. I want this not to be the case, so I am going to continue to mull it, but it seems to me is that a person in a workshop would want their chart scrutinized. They’d want to have a conversation about what they can’t see in *their* chart, so it seems this is a topic more suited to private consultation.

I may be able to teach how I would discern this from a chart, but I don’t know if I have a method. I have to mull this some more. Because the way this happens now, is organic. I listen the the person and I know by instinct, the chart, or whatever combination of things, what is authentic and what is not. It’s got to be my 8th house.

Here is a weird thing. I go to confession now. I primarily confess to one priest or the other. One of them misunderstands everything I say. The other one does not. I think I get something out of it either way, but maybe you see what I mean. They both mean well and have similar training, but one is in the head, the other comes from the gut.

I don’t know that you can teach the gut thing,  so at the moment, I can’t see away to treat this outside of private consultation, and even then, I’m not sure it would work as the focus. I don’t know. To date, it’s something that comes out in conversation and it may be that this is how it works.

I’m really sorry about this. Maybe I’ll see another angle over time. I do appreciate the interest and the food for thought.

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Comments

Describing A Person’s Deep Nature — 15 Comments

  1. Thanks for putting the effort into thinking about it Elsa. I totally understand the rationale behind your decision. Even when individuals look at their own chart, discovering an aspect in a chart can initially feel like a blow in the gut before coming to terms with it.

  2. I just don’t think this can or should be done without opportunity for a dialogue. Periodically, I work with someone who had someone tell them something 5 or 10 or 20 years prior and it twisted them into a horrible knot. I don’t ever want to do that to someone. I need something more than symbols on a piece of paper to draw a conclusion. This has to do with (deep) exchange of energy.

    It’s like when Chavez first got sick. “He’s dead,” I said, before I even finished reading the headline. That’s my 8th house.

    Apparently when I confess, I am incomprehensible. My husband also thinks I am incomprehensible. Scott (on and off bf for 17 years) used to say I was “incomprehensible”. But, Ben has never had any trouble understanding what I say, nor does this one priest.

    This stuff just is.

  3. I think you’re wise to be careful about this topic; discerning one’s deepest nature is heavy-duty stuff. There’s a huge opportunity to either turn someone on to their calling, or steer them off a cliff. It’s something you’ve got to–in the end–feel out for yourself, whether others can see it in you or not. Most definitely working on finding your “true nature” can be augmented by consulting with others, and talking about it (and it can be great fun), but it strikes me as something that should be approached with thoroughness and opportunity for exploration, and explanation.

  4. I totally understand :). When I posted the idea, I was thinking of quick ways to add income (as you read charts so naturally & deftly). The more I thought about it, the more I realized exactly what you said, people are just going to have to have some kind of feedback or clarification. For example, not everyone that has ‘parent’ written in their chart, is a parent in the traditional sense of having their own children. That would definitely need to be addressed for them individually, in regards to how it plays out in their life (or how they are using that energy). Not to mention how much more strife this could cause for you Elsa. @Elsa said: “I just don’t think this can or should be done without opportunity for a dialogue.”
    Really I couldn’t agree more.

    I missed Jana’s idea of a colosseum topic and at first thought, that also sounded good. But again it would be difficult to read about someones chart, to learn about them, yet not to know them and know how this plays out in their life.

    You would not believe all the craptasitic & hurtful stuff I’ve been told about myself (due my chart) and none of it’s true. Luckily I seem to be able to transmute it, with a fair amount of ease, or time.

    But done as a personal reading/consult, I do think this is a brilliant idea, especially right now with sat. in scorp.
    <3 :) Angie

  5. Man, only if everyone were as mature and upfront as you are Elsa.

    I prefer that gut punching/wrenching feeling. To me, there’s nothing greater than the truth, regardless how fowl it may smell.

    In fact, for a long time, I knew I’ve only scratched to surface of astrology once I came across books on houses, birth cards and other subjects, so I’d decided to clean off my Astro pallet, if you will, and find out as much as possible.

    (I’m still secretly waiting for someone to just vomit the truth about my chart this direction lol).

    Tangent: A stellium within the houses is where you have 3 or more planets within a particular house, correct?

    I’m experiencing my first return, Saturn in Scorpio, and I’ve never felt more compelled to seek the truth about myself and the things I find important.

  6. I like the idea of it as a Colosseum topic but can see what you’re saying, about the possibility of miscommunication and the damage it can do.

    Eg some years ago my dad made a comment about his immediate family (his own parents and siblings) as “his real family.” It was absolutely devastating. However I didn’t ask for clarification–I just sunk into pain (Cap Moon trine IC/Chiron, very sensitive to familial rejection real or perceived).

    I eventually told my mother, who told my dad, who called me and explained he had merely made a poor word choice, and of course I was “his real family too.”

    I am saying this, because I had access to time (to wallow in pain and then finally talk about it, prompting some action), as well as multiple conversations and outside perspective.

    Unless you have everyone fully cognizant as well as able to unwrap, unravel, and reveal themselves in a specific window of time (which sadly I consider nearly impossible as it requires emotional uniformity of a group) than no–I don’t know that it would be a potential topic.

    I do think a version of this question posed in a specific context (eg with the core focus on the Moon in the chart in question, for example) could be successful.

  7. How funny. I just heard the remark that you can never get to the bottom. Actually the person said you can never get to the bottom of someone else. I think one can be forced to live with the definition of oneself by a group though. The group agrees and then the person is locked into the label. Just a thought! Processing is a two way street.

    And Kashmiri, some people do consider their bio unit of origin as their family. I hate it. Most times I find that with oldest siblings who can’t let go or gemini moons that have unhealthy family ties.

  8. I think you’re right that having someone else describe your deep nature can really mess you up, especially if you are a younger person. I’m sure I;ve told my story about the first astrology reading I had with a guy who told me I should not masturbate and have rape fantasies because people would be able to tell.

    I was fifteen. This just flipped me the hell out.

    I know you’d never say anything of the *kind* to anyone, but I’m sure the guy saw something there in my chart he wanted to address. He just did it wrong, in the wrong context, to the wrong young girl.

    Later I thought he was either mulling over my packed eighth house, or he just wanted to say something creepy to a fifteen year old. But given that he was the “authority” it was just…really…disorienting.

  9. :). It did. Messed me up for years and actually sent me on a quest to understand astrology. Clearly there was *something* I wasn’t getting.

  10. Its one thing to analyze someone’s chart and try to find some hot-spots of activity, and its another to analyze certain aspects.
    I support not reducing this question to a short consultation. It is truly an art to be able to tell the story of one person’s deep nature through their chart. I don’t believe its in the same place for every chart. In my opinion this is a question that requires a dedication of time and would be difficult to sum up in a mini reading.
    However, I believe a good start would be to look at the south node placement to begin to understand one’s deep nature or the lies we tell ourselves and others.

  11. Oh eva . . . the rat bastard. But to your credit, you did not waste time taking revenge but moved forward. It is a success story to me.

    You have helped me re-instate new moon capricorn ongoing intentions about me being the authority in my life. I have a voice in what my truth is. I am a late bloomer (I wanted to believe) so by the time the truth about authority hit it was a nasty rat’s nest on all levels.

    I have 8th house placements too, and that’s part of my intentions as well. I like partnership for the 8th. And that means healthy exchange. It took me a long time to find my spidey sense and to realize when I am being seduced by ‘crapola.’ Oh well, everyone has their reality and opinions and frames of reference. Still learning that what a person says sometimes says more about them than me. And it doesn’t have to affect my reality.

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