This morning, my husband and I were talking about people who clearly live their lives, influenced by forces they do not acknowledge. Like their blood for example, or teachings that were instilled them when they were very young.
My husband feels that right (and wrong) come down to the molecule in a person. Do you agree?
Forget what you read yesterday, with frills and flowers and bullshit and brainwashing attached. Forget what is popular in your crowd.
Do you know right from wrong, internally?
If so, where does this come from?
26 Responses to “Right and Wrong and the Molecule”
My very Saturn/Cancer mother really, really emphasized right from wrong (when she was around). Sometimes it was physically imposed.
As my siblings and I got a bit older, and we were kind of left to run wild at an age where we shouldn’t have been able to, with these values instilled, we maintained distinct boundaries. We never went to prison, got knocked up, stole, quit school… or did any of the sorts of things our mother told us, since we were quite small, that she’d flay us for.
Everyone around us who know our circumstances, say that they are astounded at how well we came out. I don’t know if it’s a gene, or not. Bu,t I would wager that my mother putting the fear of God in us from a young age (or the fear of her, rather haha), and giving us solid reasons not to do “wrong”… it helped a ton.
I come from an immoral people (although they would never admit it) on my dad’s side- gangsters, gamblers, drug addicts/alcoholics, who also enjoyed a high reputation for some reason, even though just under the surface they were a mess. And on my mom’s side an upright, law abiding, but loveless and rigid people.
I was internally highly conflicted by this growing up, having to abide two different sets of rules depending on who I was with. One side looked nice but was full of immorality, the other side was upright but lacked love. I rebelled hard as soon as I could, and reaped the consequences (I had too much Capricorn not to have).
I guess I knew that I was doing wrong, but it all seemed so arbitrary since I was given so many mixed messages growing up. So I just pushed it all to the side since I wanted nothing to do with ‘right and wrong’ because all I knew were hypocrites.
I have had to sort all that stuff out for myself now, and decide what right and wrong is to -me- since the messages I got growing up were not coherent. I’m glad I sorted that out when I was still young enough to not have gotten into real, long term trouble, like jail time.
Yes. I think I was born with some kind of karmic memory of pain and the desire to heal it, either in myself or in others.
Some of it, but other parts, I had to learn.
I honestly didn’t know why it was wrong to steal or some other things…
It was taught it was wrong, but I didn’t know why.
Then it’d be, I knew from what I thought others thought that it was wrong to kill, but then I didn’t know why, in certain circumstances (that others find it egregious), I found it justified. And then later on, I started to agree with them because I saw how extreme the character in question was being, but it was still not that extreme to me….
So, some people find it wrong to kill, period. Others find it okay to kill in some legitimate circumstances (not just justified). Which would be right? They are both right for each individual, I suppose.
I feel that each individual has their own inherent morality, but it may not fall in line with convention or even be considered moral to your or my standards… In that manner, people know right from wrong, internally.
“I feel that each individual has their own inherent morality, but it may not fall in line with convention or even be considered moral to your or my standards…”
That’s really interesting. When you do meet someone who shares your morals, there is a *click* and it’s real nice.
remove socialization, hah I love it. Man, that’s deep… this was the question present throughout my entire degree. Love this stuff
I think my sense of morality comes from Sun square Saturn. I have to work hard to be a responsible person, and the slightest mistake leads to huge repercussions.
If people are hurting themselves and others when doing something, then I think it’s immoral, no matter how much convention may laud such actions.
Yes I believe your husband is right. We are all born with a conscience. It is in our cells somewhere. It is indoctrination and programming which can interfere with our innate knowing of what is right.
I know what I can live with and what I can’t, and that is an internal gut consideration. But whether that is “right” or “wrong” is up for debate I guess, because other people sometimes feel differently than I do.
If I feel something is the right thing to do, I don’t really care what others think about it. I will listen and consider (and maybe even change my mind), but in the end, my actions are my own.
It is deep within me, I was raised to the contrary of what I morally believe. I have always been like this too.
I do agree with CrIsis. We are all born with a conscience that reminds us of our choices in life when presented with challenges. We all do have free will to choose whether we will do right or wrong, however, and which path we choose could have to do with our DNA or maybe with the nature of our soul.
In the case of Adam Lanza, the Newtown murderer, they are now looking at his DNA for clues as to why he did such a thing. The results of their findings will be very interesting to see if there really are biological markers that indicate someone is a killer. If there is no real conclusion, maybe it is a matter of a bad soul.
In my natal chart, I have Saturn conjunct Moon in Scorpio and I think the Saturn has always kept me on the right path in life, even though it has always been the hard path.
my dad and his family.
I had a Grandmother who followed the Quaker religion…very quiet, solid, good people.
She was a shining example for me when I was young and those values are still with me.
I also have natal Saturn in Scorpio, deep core value strengths.
I have had to leave several jobs in the past due to corporations that I worked for behaving unethically and I would NOT go along with it.
To be honest, I know who I am internally, what I feel, what I believe, but I know it is both right and wrong as I know some social reference points that conflict. I have a private moral compass when push comes to shove, but most of the time I keep an amoral stance unless it’s an injustice in my book.
It’s just that I’ve lived in different places, have family from different cultures, and things -molecules- have gotten mixed up a bit. I know where I stand, but no matter how I move, it will hurt one side or other, unless I stop seeing it that way.
Blood mixes and bodies change. We can have our ideas of pureness and eastern and western philosophies, but when they meet, well, it looks complicated to people who don’t have the same experiences or ‘molecules’.
Sort of like milano, my ancestors are a mixed bunch, but there are some things stronger in me than others, and some things less strong. I am what I am. Hey, I even know people who think I shouldn’t exist, therefore I’m inherently wrong and an abomination. Think of that!
Wow, this will always be a brain/soul-busting question; been at this question for years. I tend to think that nature (organics) wins out over nurture. And if nature was every proven to override nurture, then the question might become, “Do we inherit a stronger or weaker ethic/moral?” And then if so, does the following question become, “If we become aware of what we inherited and in turn ‘control/change’ the tendency, does this mean that something stronger than nature or nurture exists?” This free will thing is that third piece? I’ll be at the pub tonight thinking about this.
Elsa, I admire your questions. Like a twin of me. I’ll have these convo’s w/ my 22yro daughter. My SO says his head hurts when I pose them so forget about him as a sounding board, lol.
Thank-you, Elsa.
Yes. Saturn in Libra taught me. I still have battle scars.
Wondering what Saturn in Scorpio will teach me. I am a little anxious if not afraid.
It’s branded into my brain, and probably on my forehead. And when I do wrong, and I have, I can hardly stand to live with myself until I correct it. So, I make every effort. For myself more than anything. I have to live with myself everyday.
I couldn’t really separate the way I was brought up from genetics. My mother had a very strong moral code, and believed in accountability. I also went to six/seven years of parochial school so it’s very deeply ingrained.
I try to pay attention to my gut, or heart, or instinct, or conscience. Whatever you’d like to call it. If it bothers me or hurts my respect for myself, or makes me uncomfortable, it’s not good.
ah, inner compass, that’s the word I was searching for. if it aligns, good. if not…oh, I can do it, but there’s a price to be paid in self respect and guilt.
Heads Up from Elsa P!
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