Running Another Man’s Life, Making His Decisions, Setting His Priorities…
Outtakes and various other sundries.
My client does not think the man she is seeing is doing what he should be doing. He’s 40 years old.
“This represents your thinking which is completely independent of his thinking. Frankly, his life sounds pretty good to me. He rolls into work whenever he wants, some woman comes over and screws his lights out…probably offers other services, while he’s got no responsibilities. I don’t think he is hurting one bit. If you were designing his life, then yes. It’s off. But he is architect of his life and it seems he’s got it down pat to me…”
(snip)
“…He clearly does not want to live with anyone. Period. This is not an accident, it is by design. If you push him, like the women before you did, it’s a safe bet it will end the relationship.
The idea of what you want him to have and what he wants to have, conflict. It’s like people telling me to get a degree in psych so I can be more respected. I don’t care about that. The people may be right, but it’s irrelevant because I am the architect of my life and I decide what is important to me, independently.”
I bet this is familiar to a zillion of you – yes?
Which side are you on? Do you try to make others conform to your standard, or do they try to inflict their priorities on you?
39 Responses to “Running Another Man’s Life, Making His Decisions, Setting His Priorities…”
Why would she be wasting her life with him? I understand the “love” thing…to a point. But if you don’t get along with someone on the most fundamental level,what’s the point?
He’s fine for himself and his behavior. If he’s hurting you, then leave. If you want to spend the rest of your life “fixing” someone and then play the martyr for it, it’s a waste, but that’s *your* choice. So make a decision and live with it.
It’s a fine line between all “getting along” and control. Can’t fix or control anyone except yourself, and that’s difficult enough. And don’t even mention having children in this mess (which so many do…)
I am amazed by people who just can’t see that not everyone values what they value. It’s ALL a matter of style.
This kind of man/woman thing is common. That’s why if you tend to take care of a man, you should concentrate on men who are willing to get married, so you get something out of it.
Old lady logic. 
I have a big problem with this. I’m a Libra, stellium libra, and there is definitely a lot of harmonizing and people-pleasing at times. I wonder if Saturn in Scorpio will make it so that people are quite clear about things like this: I’m drawing the line. I run my life, this show, and no one else. Especially as the power structures of society continue to crumble in the wake of Pluto’s transit through Capricorn, I hope that Saturn in Scorpio will make people (me included) get serious about what they really want, get real with themselves, and realize they only have so much time. Life is too short. Get serious about enjoying it, get free, or be forever a slave to the expectations of everyone else, said with great authority but grounded on little.
Yes.. I was guilty as sin of this in both my marriages. My mantra now is: Live life with no expectations. Make yourself happy!
I never try to design someone elses’ life! I can’t stand it! I am protective of my own too! Sun Square Uranus.
I have no desire to control someone elses life. I can barely maintain my responsibilities. I have to say that noone tries to tell me what to do with my life either. My family especially is big on personal liberty.
Universities give out honorary Ph.D. status to those who demonstrate mastery in the field. That makes sense to me, in your case, Elsa. Why would you pay for a bachelor’s degree when you have a Ph.D. due already?
(off topic, but I have been thinking about school a lot lately.)
I could care less to steer someone else ship. I have my own rough waters to tread. And I’m sorry, he has his place and his things and I have mine? Uhhh, win-win to me! Control or whatever you want to call it…it’s all so tiring.
I’ve been on both sides. I wanted the guy to at least be ‘presentable’.
On the other side, I’m going to do whatever I want to do.
Since my progressed ASC and Sun has gone into Capricorn, I have tended to do this a bit more with my ex. Not about MAJOR stuff, but day to day, work a day stuff. He is a Sag rising and it drives him nuts! Sometimes he listens but most times I frustrate him. I feel like I can see the forest for his trees, so to speak. But I am really trying to just listen now, and let him work it out. It’s hard. I have to sit on my “suggestion hands”. : P
I would have to say that I am neither side of this equation. I do not inflict my agenda, priorities or standards on anyone else. By the same token I do not allow anyone to do the same to me. I may make suggestions to others but if they are not taken or are rejected I rarely ask why or think anything about it. I listen to the suggestions of others as they my have an observation I had not considered during my decision making process. However I don’t allow any one to control me I am my own person.
I was guilty of this in my marriage, however, I was just pushing him to do what he kept saying he wanted from his life. Luckily for him, it worked–he is now a very very wealthy doctor. Me, however, that’s another story. I got nothing.
Now in my life I have been single for a very long time. I learned in my marriage that you have to just accept someone as they are. No one changes because someone else pushes them to. Yes, sometimes you can make a gentle suggestion, point something out that perhaps they weren’t seeing, but people are who they are, and if it isn’t enough for you, then walk away.
There is no custom fit in an off-the-rack world. Some guy friend of mine said that offhandedly to me, and I never forgot it.
If it doesn’t fit, put it back. If it does fit, pay for it and take it home.
@Orcus: “If it doesn’t fit…if it does…” Good one.
As the Spanish Jesuits (?)/ St. Teresa of Avila (?) said:
“Take what you want in life. But pay for it.”
Been on both sides of this equation. I think I have this problem licked though. I have learned to keep my psychic hands and judgements to myself. Only thing I can control is what I do. On those days that I have been dead set on revolutionizing somebody’s else’s life, if I am honest with myself…..I wasn’t living my own life the way I wanted to.
I’ve learned this lesson the hard way, though with the Capricorn it went both ways. I would’ve never left, though. Sometimes I think I pushed extra hard at the end because I knew it would push him out the door.
I should have left, a year before the relationship ended. He treated me badly at the end and I just took it all in, and then made an unreasonable demand I knew instinctively he’d never agree to. Which was, basically, have a real relationship and stop living as roommates who screw–except for when he needed me to prop him up.
I really like that too Orcus…”no custom fit in an off-the-rack world.” If it doesn’t fit leave it… great advice! If it fits pay for it and take it home.
Man oh man Elsa, this judgemental thing. It slaps me in the face when it hits me and my own judgemental words slap me in the face as I speak them. I have been going through this awareness for some months now.
If I dream I am judging I wake up nauseous. If I dream I am preaching, being self righteous, I wake up nauseous. This could have to do with Pluto squaring natal mercury. But somehow I think it has to do with Big Britches talk with jupiter in gemini. Natal jupiter conjunct sun (I seem to be letting go of traces of zealotry?). I don’t like listening to it, and I don’t want to do it no more.
I have a tattoo on my forearm, facing out so other people can read it, that says in French “Everyone to his own taste.”
I lead my life by my own rules. I let people live their own lives however they see fit. The only control I exert is whether or not I spend time with them.
Also, I have a cardinal T square and I am a raging control freak. I just try to keep my raging freakiness to my own life, thank you very much.
Elsa: yes the last guy i dated‘ I liked him terribly. And what o liked the most was exactly that attitude. But i did want sth more so I left, no explanation. just vanished
I have eight cardinal t-squares and my instinct is to be a screaming control freak. but I learned early I couldn’t do for several reasons – one being I’m attracted to Fixed energy: you can push Leo and Aqua around. Another being, I won’t be pushed around myself, so how can I justify trying to order other people around?
I do make an exception in my own house, where I want things the way I want them. For that reason, I live alone. I did try to change my husband – with some good reason, and with his acquiescence, but he resented it in the longterm so it didn’t last.
In later life, my women friends all condemned my relationship with the Man, who lives just like the man in Elsa’s post. He’s been happy as Larry, pleasing himself and being very selfish! My friends all wanted me to demand he changed. I could see no point in doing that: he wouldn’t change for me, nor for anyone else either: he is as he is. And while the rewards were sufficient, and my needs different, I was prepared to let him be.
Whoops, so many typos!
“you CAN’T push Leo and Aqua around”
The thing I wonder is how thoroughly people know each other before becoming a couple. Once people become a couple, the little things become so important it seems…
But then again, my Sun is in Virgo (so when it comes to jumping into love relationships, I’m on the skeptical side. But I easily make friends and acquaintances though), and the Saturn in Libra transit made me develop a very sober view of relationships and humanity in general.
It seems that people have to know each other a lot and accept themselves for who they are instead of trying to change one another. Couples that are doomed to fail are the ones where a partner expects to be able to change the other.
I’m learning to accept people’s quirks, limitations and eccentricities, just like people should accept mine as well.
The only thing that can deeply bother me in people is the quality of their principles and philosophical foundations (probably as a result of my Sag stellium). I’m not quite sure how to deal with that.
For the first 25-30yrs of my life, I’ve been swimming up steam (trying to get others to conform to my standards). Now, I see just how pointless and self-defeating that has been. These days, I try to live and let live, but that seems to attract others that want to force their standards one me, but only everyonce in a while (not often, thank goodness).
Angie
Very succinct advice!
The ultimate giving up of control: I want you to want what you want. Learned this the hard way – and it’s easier on everyone involved. Signed, Uber Cardinal.
Growing up, lots of family members were quick to tell me what’s wrong with me. Good thing I didn’t listen to them or I wouldn’t have the wonderful life I have. As for romantic relationships, I learned some things the hard way. my ex-husband and ex-beau post divorce crossed what was a redline for me that they knew was a redline early in the relationship. I thought that because they loved me, they would/should/could stop it. I was so wrong. So now I know – if they say “X” believe them and walk away.
I’m sorry, but I disagree with this. Just because someone says something about your lifestyle, it doesn’t mean they are running your life or controlling your life. They’re just offering advice. And quite frankly, I give advice when I care about another person. If I don’t care? I don’t say a word. How am I ‘running their life’? They don’t have to listen to me if they don’t want to and they don’t have to do anything that they don’t want to. Who is anybody to tell me or anybody not to have an opinion or give advice? I find this an offense to free speech. Who is anybody to me that I have to walk on eggshells around them all the time just because they can’t handle my opinion or others?
I hear you, Conoco. I can’t speak for anyone else, but in my case I think I was right–I think the way my ex treated me in several regards was totally screwed. I also know that there was absolutely a wrong way to go about it (which is why I mentioned I should have just left).
So I see this idea less about shutting up and putting up, and more about accepting others as they are and making a decision about how *I* will be, based on that. You know what I mean?
(I can only say now, I spent too long wishing he was different, and treated me better. But even saying that now feels like a waste of time, because it’s in the past and I don’t want to give any more energy to it than I already have).
I used to have trouble with boundaries. Somebody explained it this way: boundaries are not about setting limits on what somebody else does or doesn’t do. It’s not so much about “This is unacceptable to me, so stop it.” It’s about what you will do to set the limits and take care of yourself. “You don’t want to live with anybody, I do. So, I’ll just be off then.., nice knowing you.”
I’ve been a slow learner. I explained to my daughter the other day that even though I am not in a relationship now, I was in mainly rough ones until I made my list of what I need and want. Then it naturally followed that I learned to be much more discriminating. One step closer. I may not find my match in this lifetime, but I’m not in win/lose or lose/lose relationships, either.
There’s a vast difference between telling someone where your own boundaries are with a view to advising them how to maintain a relationship with you, and trying to impose your own standards on someone else as regards how they live their own life.
My last lover, like the man in Elsa’s post above, wanted to live on his own and feel free to have other relationships (or ‘flings’) while always coming back to me. I didn’t like this much, who would? – but it was pointless demanding he changed. He’d tried living with a woman before and didn’t feel it was honest. It’s not what he wanted.
What I did (and still do) demand, is that he nevertheless treats me with due respect and consideration for my feelings. Those are where my boundaries are, and they concern what’s acceptable to ME not him. There were things I was not willing to accept, and it was up to him whether he took that on board.
Trying to domesticate a man who has no intention of becoming monogamous or domesticated is just foolish. It’s a waste of time and energy and it’s only going to make a woman miserable.
I realized, about a month ago (with help from the terrific EE board regulars) that I was getting all wound up about stepson and the crappy extended family because *they don’t live their lives the way I would*. I have a strong “preacher” signature in my chart, Jupiter opposite ASC, in cardinal signs, no less.
Even if something is close to evil, if that something works for people, they’re not going to let it go because *I* said it’s not the way to be.
I haven’t posted anything about any of them since. Liberating!
The only person I have any control over is myself, and that is even questionable some of the time. Trying to control others is futile. Accept someone for who they are so that you can live in reality. There is freedom in that.
Considering where I am in my life (30s, no driving license, spends most time with family, share friends with family, single for a while and not putting self out there, I’m still fat and not doing much about it lately…) I get a lot of “This is what you need to do:…”
Personally, I find that if I know and remind myself that wherever I am in life is where I’ve put myself, and either I am ok with it or I change it (and that only I can decide if I’m ok with it), then it doesn’t matter what others want me to do or think/wish I did. Because I get my fix of social interaction, I get to co-run a dog shelter, I co-employ nearly 10 people and help support their families… And I still pursue other goals that are meaningful to me. Basically, I get fulfillment in my life as it is otherwise I would have been so uncomfortable I would have tried to change it…
And I know that when I know I *need* to do something for my well being and for my own good, I can do it and succeed.
Of course, the thing I’m working on is getting frustrated by people and expecting them to stop nagging (or mothering) me. I find it quickly draining, and I particularly find it insulting that some think I direct my life – and I’ve noticed I can let it bug me to the point where I either look down at people for thinking so little of me and/or just avoid a lot of interactions and communications because of it.
As for other people’s lives in general, I try to remind myself that unless someone asks for feedback I don’t give it (and then it should be practical advice, leaving them the freedom and power over their lives), and if I don’t like the way they live their life *and* how they affect me, it’s on me to move on and part ways. I don’t always succeed but that’s the constant goal.
i try to only give advice when people ask for it. one can’t change someone else’s inertia…
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Both sides to be honest. I am generally a live and let live person but as simple as it sounds, it’s still hard to live by it. Especially if you’re cardinal.