Mars Saturn And Other Signatures Of Cruelty In A Woman’s Chart
Astrology in real life.
Here’s a sticky subject. What if you have Mars in aspect to Saturn or some other harsh signature (or signatures) in your chart? And what if you’re a woman?
I have a client with an wicked opposition in her chart. She’s also got Venus in Taurus in the 7th house which is a very strong placement. But this Mars. Mercury, Saturn, Pluto gash ‘cross her chart dominates. When she interacts with someone, she easily slips into a dynamic that makes me think of two Gladiators, squaring off.
Now this horribly difficult for her not only because of the Venus placement but she’s also got a Pisces Moon! Can you imagine? Yesterday she asked me if she was going to get over of get rid of this and I had to tell her no. You can’t have something like that in your chart and not have it play, however it can managed.
What’s fortunate here is my husband has a similar aspect in his chart. Most of your know he is a consummate soldier and an ex-green beret. This gal needs a similar outlet and she has the foundation for this already laid, actually.
Since I live with someone who has made good use of the energy he has available, and not seen it destroy his relationships, I am able to tell her how this is done. She’s got to find expression for that opposition, at work most likely, and then not bring the work home.
I explained to her how disastrous it would be for my husband’s love life if he brought his prowess home. I mean his physical prowess as well as his keen, cunning mind. If he beats his wife and plays psych warfare on her, what do think is going to happen? He’s not going to have a wife!
You see the key here. If you have something like this in your chart it is up to you to manage it. No one can do it for you. My husband is very careful. He won’t give me a massage because he’s afraid he might break a bone. He goes out of his way not to scare me because he certainly is frightening.
This gal has to use (and not use) her prowess in a similar way. I say it’s possible – this is what Saturn is for, eh? With Mars and Saturn mashed, you must take command. Not of me, but of yourself.
Do you have a harsh signature like this in your chart. How do you work with it?
45 Responses to “Mars Saturn And Other Signatures Of Cruelty In A Woman’s Chart”
I have Mars conjunct Saturn. Exercise/sports are my outlet. Like Rachael I am also pretty hard on myself. Also have Pluto sq Sun…fun times 
Great post, Elsa! This kind of work could be so powerful for people if they’d let it.
My mother has an exact conjunction between Mars/Saturn in Leo. Pluto is also widely conjunct. Her Mars/Saturn exactly squares her Sun/Moon in Scorpio. She is the most emotionally unrealized person I have ever met. She really believes she doesn’t have a shadow. I’ve never met anyone so committed to her own perfection. It’s very sad, actually, because she’s alone and doesn’t need to be.
Not only do I have Saturn/Mars opposition – my husband does too – we do the Gladiator scene a lot.
I love it when I start out the week learning something new. Thanks Elsa!
I feel extremely blessed that my Mars is trine Saturn. Because it is also conj Uranus and Pluto. Without that trine..well..not good.
I’m very aware of my shadow! But then again I have a stellium in the 8th.
I’ve only a few times in my life expressed anything remotely close to “cruelty”, and it was in my adolescence, and mainly in my behaviour and words towards my mom. We are very very close though.
I have Mars conjunct Saturn (both retrograde) in Libra in the 8th. Maybe the retrograde turns this inwards more? I am extremely hard on myself. And maybe the libra helps, not sure… but I wouldn’t describe myself as someone who is cruel, I can be sharp and impatient and if I’m really upset, I can resort to being cold, but it’s not dominant in my nature. At least I don’t think it is, people tend to find me very warm and caring. So they say.
Some with these aspects are victims of cruelty but one way or the other, you’re going to meet it.
Saturn squares pluto natally. And it just doesn’t progress away. I have had to learn to proceed with caution. I never would have thunk I’d find what I found. It isn’t at all like the the standard programming I received on what life is about and how to do it. It just didn’t doesn’t work that way for me.
Kr–I know someone that committed to her own perfection with a mars saturn conjunct in virgo (physical environment is ship shape). And a nod to no shadow awareness as well. She isn’t so perfect, but sure knows how everyone else should be. She “just wants them to be better”. Ya right, who’s she trying to kid, when she insinuates they are not good, she looks better. That crafty little gem.
work.
and art. i work wit a lot of the heavies mashed with venus through dancing.
I’ve got Mars Saturn exact semi square. I’ve also got Venus square Saturn, and Mars is on the midpoint of that, which means Venus semi squares it as well. I’ve got so much Pisces in me though, even tho I’m an Aries Sun. I’m definitely not a harsh type, more of a softy. I can be quite bossy as times, however.
I watch a lot of war movies/study history.
Mars conjuncts tight in Saturn (in Leo) with Pluto for a stellium in the 7th and 8th Houses. All this squares my Sun,Mercury,MC in the 10th.
I meditate a lot, and write my way through the cruelty … that like has already been said, turns onto myself. I know my shadow all too well!
Yes I have Mars conjunct Saturn, both trine Pluto and opposition Neptune and my Asc.
I don’t give expression to cruelty, but I can feel inside of me that I am capable of it. In my case I tend to be on the receiving end.
I think of it as my barbarian underpinnings – however many years ago the ancestors – some of them – were Vikings. Norman (Norseman) is a family name. We still have something flying around the family called “The Temper” – red rage. HOwever- we also have strong saturns (late degrees mine is at 29 cap, so is dad’s, my uncle has sun at 29 cap) and the family intention is to direct all that energy appropriately.
Military family. Athletics. Develop the mind. Black humor. Don’t mess with us.
Did i mention we were Scots? Don’t forget the sense of humore….
Mars oppose Saturn (wide)
I agree with what Notch says. With my Fixed Grand Cross, Saturn/Mars Venus/Pluto, I would say that life works differently for me then how it does for others. And for bonus points, I have lived a long life with an unaspected unless you count my MC and Eris) sun, at least to any of my natal planets. When Uranus entered Aries it now is visiting with my 5 degree Aries Sun.
Mars and Moon in Aries 10th house, opposing Saturn and Jupiter in Capricorn…in the 7th.
Weird, my Saturn doesn’t show in my chart as a square, though it’s in Capricorn…wonder if the degree isn’t powerful.
I have been afraid to have my chart looked at because of the cruelty which is there for all to see. I have been the victim, and I’m ashamed to say, also the perpetrator. Impatience and rage is a constant in my life. 
I have Cap Saturn opp. Cancer Mars. Both have good aspects to Pluto, but yeah, I can see I have the capability of being cruel. I often have thoughts about it but I try not to act on it.
This mostly happens when I get and I want to get revenge. :\ But I know, mentally, revenge doesn’t get me anywhere.
Yes, I do. Aries Mars opposed Pluto. It’s part of a T-square with my Moon.
I’ve had many hard lessons that have led me to an emotional place in which I feel comfortable. I was a rage-r as a kid, which got me nowhere (except ostracized and ridiculed–the bullies loved it).
I then turned it in on myself (bulimia). I overcame that when I began to express my feelings.
For me, the release point of the T-square–my 1st House Moon, is a true gift. I realize it’s about me (1st House–I am) and my emotions (Moon/feelings).
I can be a cantankerous bag having a bad day like anyone else but it usually turns inwards, and this has been the pattern for a long time (bulimia was the extreme expression, as well as self-harming).
I don’t like hurting other people. It makes me hate myself and that’s a bad road to be on. I was raised Christian and though I don’t identify as a Christian any longer, I try my best to turn the other cheek.
I have Mars in Cap right on the IC. Mars sextiles Saturn and forms and Grand Trine with Moon in the 8th and Pluto/Uranus in the 12th.
I’m highly aware of my shadow. Motherhood is no walk in the park for me. I was terrified of having kids in case I turned into my mother. While I have never raged and beaten my kids the my mom did, I do at times feel trapped like she did and now have a picture of what she went through.
My cunning comes in through finding my freedom through meditation and yoga.
I’m not cruel and I’m particularly tender-hearted towards animals. But I did feel the possibility of cruelty in myself as a child, esp since I was exposed to cruelty being the victim of it myself and felt a great deal of pent up anger against the world.
Mars conjunct Saturn, both Rx, in Cancer H11, opposing my Sun/Venus and forming T-squares with Jupiter/Juno and Chiron.
I’ve been the victim of emotional cruelty more than once, but I hope I’ve not been guilty of inflicting it. I am aware of my shadow however…
I have Mars conjunct Saturn in Aries 3H. Exercise helps and I have just started to meditate. I also have Sun opposite pluto which I am sure doesnt not help things Since i have gotten into astrology I have paid more attention to these things and that is positive!!
PS I didn’t answer the question, how do you work with it? I’m not sure really, but I do.
I guess being so aware of it is a good way to avoid manifesting it. I’ve always been on guard against it. Maybe it plays out in my imagination at one remove: I watch an awful lot of cop shows, crime movies, that kind of stuff – and I read a lot of it both real-life crime and fiction too
mars/cancer conjunct in cancer as the point of a few t-squares touching most of the rest of my chart. I am/was most cruel to myself. Most everything begins with “and I see this because I’ve been there and done that”. Otherwise I try to keep my advice to myself unless requested.
Been on the receiving end of some mind boggling cruelty and struggled to put it into perspective. Most of my coping is to physically build and create things. Whether it is a home/house or food for others.
What do you think of a female relative with pluto conjunct saturn conjunct mars in Leo in the 12th, close to Leo ascendant, all in T-square to Taurus venus in the 10th opposite Scorpio moon? Exhausting,no?
I have Mars aspecting Saturn and Pluto.
I’m usually working on a project that really scares or disgusts me. That takes up a lot of the “fighting” energy. Fighting your fears, inhibitions, preconceptions, whatever.
Meditation is great! Anyone who thinks it is a relaxing endeavour has probably never tried to sit still for a good 20 mins with a silent mind, never mind doing it days on end.
What about Mars square Pluto? Isn’t that a signifier of cruelty and abuse (both on giving and receiving end)?
I’d not heard as much about Mars/Saturn in this regard but will read more about it.
I have Mars (and Venus)in the ASC square Pluto/Uranus (MC)
And, Mars and Venus square Saturn (IC)
That places Saturn in opposition to Pluto/Uranus.
I am in my mid 40′s now. I am thankful for all my squares and oppositions
I would not be the same person without them..its taught me to mediate.
Natal Chiron in Pisces has taught me so much more
I’ve met cruelty both ways with mars(4th house) square saturn(conj. ASC.), initially from my mother who has this mars(in scorpio) square pluto and an aries moon and then my cruelty came out in my relations with men who loved me…i couldn’t help torturing them when they showed a soft side. What’s paradoxal is that people see me as sweet and kind. maybe it’s cause of pluto conj. with my sun, venus.
I’ve got Mars conjunct Pluto (yes, yes, we know; you mention it all the damned time… *grins*). I prefer to get it out through art and listening to music since that conjunction sextiles Neptune. When that doesn’t work, breaking stuff does. 
Strangely, I’ve never been able to channel it into exercise/movement. That keys me up instead of letting it out!
@Josephine, In classical astrology (only up to Saturn), Mars and Saturn were the two big malefics (bad planets). Having them aspect each other, especially by conjunction, was a seriously bad omen and considered the mark of a tyrant.
I’m trying to figure how cunning and brutality can be left outside the door of a marital home unless one is bound to a schizophrenic split personality (typical military programming)or one is so spaced on delusional prescription drugs and alcohol that it is accepted as normal.
If one is bound to another who causes untold misery to many others whilst enjoying the spoils of war, it is not a harmonious aspect in self or marriage.
If one were to carry on the delusion that it’s all for the good of the nation, one is not on the planet Earth with eyes open. This is always the puzzle of army wives …how can they stand it?
I had a transiting quincunx of Saturn w/ Mars and the teacher/instructor was a tyrant–verbally abusive at times and discussed w/ us her past hx of abuse in a marriage w/ an alcoholic. The abused becoming the abuser, but had no conscious understanding of that cycle that I could see!
Hard Mars/Saturn can be a history of physical or sexual abuse, too.
It provides enormous drive, drive drive to do, to fix, to accomplish. It is exhausting and wears me out. But I’m the one you will come to when you have a dirty nasty project you need done. I’m the one you come to when you cannot do or fix for yourself. I’m the one who will get the pieces of the broken dropped in her lap to put back together, clean or process into the next cycle.
Yes. I see it differently. I wish I were not so tired.
I have Mars/Uranus/Pluto in the 1st house and like SaD (yes, yes, we know; you mention it all the damned time… haha).
I agree with Elsa’s advice about directing the energy in an appropriate way. For me, it has been work and martial arts plus dancing. I have incredible drive, dynamism, passion, focus, stamina, willpower, energy and determination.
You cannot run away from who you are and you have to work with what you have. I ran from who I was and my signature caught up with me. I ended up the victim of violence – in an abusive relationship for years. This was before I learned to channel the energy into positive activities, work and physical exercise.
Often while others are off relaxing or doing whatever, I am focussing on strategies and movements about change that I want to see.
I see it differently too. It is incredibly effective energy, if used properly with focus and compassion for other people.
“I see it differently too. It is incredibly effective energy, if used properly with focus and compassion for other people.”
Werd!
I’ve come to think of Mars/Saturn as warrior energy. Not just because of Rhino *nods acknowledgement*, but because once I started looking at the people in my personal life who are military or peripheral-military (family, etc) they all had a Mars/Saturn link somehow.
I find Mars/Saturn to be very precise, man. And implacable — dog with a bone. I like it!
@SaD – I think this is the part where we ::fistbump:: LOL!
*LOL @Mahchi* *BUMPS!* 
Elsa, what about progressed Mars squaring P. Saturn? I have them trine natally.
Jennifer, I think the P aspect is active but the natal aspect shows you’re familiar with these combined energies so you’re likely to be better able to work with them than someone who is not.
I thought the subject was about Mars/Saturn and not Mars/Pluto or other planets.
Oh, and…
I think this aspect comes down to respect. In natal charts – self-respect, in synastry charts – respect of other.
Here’s my solution for turning Mars-Saturn in hard aspect to a harmonious one:
Tip #1 – Acknowledge the old man (Saturn) for his experience and wisdom. This includes acknowledging yourself (natal) and/or other (synastry). Take into account your and/or the other person’s experience, hardships, and wisdom – don’t ignore, RESPECT!
Tip #2 – Take your time. Keep commitments to self and/or other. Discipline yourself. Avoid distractions.
Tip #3 – Make a plan, then work your plan. A plan devised by you and/or other. Don’t rush the process but be FEARLESS.
(Modified from my article originally published April 9, 2011)
Much love!
I’d also like to add ‘authority’… In natal, respect of authority figures, in synastry charts – respect of other, who may be an authority on something you’re not…
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I do.
I’ve got Saturn/Mars opposing each other, with each of them squaring my 10H Sun.
I can be hard on people, especially when I sense a lack of authenticity. My Sun square Uranus hates pretense. And honestly I’m harder on no one than I am on myself. That said, it doesn’t excuse it.
I meditate. It relieves a lot of stress.
… Love, love, love. Learn, learn, learn…