I can’t obviously speak for others but for me, I’m beyond the primal urges. I don’t have much of a sex drive (37 years old) and maybe its endocrine related, but I can do without for extended periods of time. My husband is ALL MALE. When he gets home from his job on a gas rig after 2 weeks, he’s still cussing, talking about sports and going to the gym within 24 hours. While this is some of what endears me to him (he’s quite handsome and sexy) I’m over it. So I’m more “on the move” about man stuff cause by the time he goes back to work, I’m glad I don’t have to get laid every day and I don’t have to hear sportcenter 24-7. If we didn’t have a child I would have given up years ago and become a spinster!!!

I think t-carat’s point (or at least what I got out of it) was not that women and men aren’t different, but that this difference shouldn’t be structurally interpreted in ways that are unequal.

So, men can be men in whatever way that means to them, but in the public arena it should be more neutral. Equal pay for equal work, that sort of thing. Because, the way it has been traditionally done, the structure benefits the old boy network (that’s not news to anyone of course). As long as men being men means I get the same pay and say, I could care less. Measure each other’s dicks, smash beer cans on your foreheads, whatever…

Some people make a bigger issue out of gender than other people. I think a lot of it has to do with the way we are raised. I totally agree with CD.

As I understand it, the Soldier is talking about underlying currents that run between the genders, and I agree with him. I also agree with the idea CD puts forward about the necessity of neutrality in the public arena.

I am much more comfortable these days about admitting the genders are so different…that’s an idea that really disturbed me when I was younger, especially as my feminist philosophy wasn’t fully formed. I simply lacked the life experience for it to be.

I am definately affected by the fact I grew up in a large, all-female family (even the family pet was female), and even more affected that my mum had suffered from sexual abuse and hadn’t received any help…and she was religious, so there were many messages about ‘How Men Are’ and ‘How Women Are’ and how we aren’t supposed to mix, men can’t be trusted, etc.
The irony of this is that my Dad is the most upstanding person you could ever meet in your life. A wonderful man, the finest example of a man or human being. He also warned us how horrible men were–even though he wasn’t. Huh?

Furthermore, I have been working in a pre-dominantly male workplace for over 5 years. Until very recently I was oblivious to this. I’d feel it every now and then, go for drinks after work, and a few beers in my Aries Mars would smell danger and I’d leave…what kind of danger? Not the kind my mum warned me about, but something like this:

We really are fucking different. And no, I don’t like being the only gal in the room sometimes…even with my guy friends. I am okay with men flirting with me, but I certainly want to know what my sexual energy is and how it is being directed. My life and my relationships with men have benefitted greatly by becoming more aware of these things.

t-carat – who says women don’t want to get in “where the decisions that affect the world are made and where the money is”?

Women love power. It gives them a position of safety and strength, it is a true equalizer. Women love power for the safety it creates, but men love power because it gets women! For him it is a means to get sex and love, for her it is way to avoid getting abused. The men who make the “decisions” and have all the money…there is always a woman they seek to impress. Take her away, and the incentive to go be successful shrinks considerably. Women, on the other hand, use power as a means to shield themselves from domination and abuse. Women have many forms of power in addition to the ones men have. Men no better than to screw over the woman who makes the decisions and signs their paycheck – and the one that loves them and has the babies. She is to be respected.

I think there was a point when things started to change and that was probably at the start of the feminist movement. I see changes in the younger generations, men are alot less chauvinistic than they used to be, esp those brought up by strong women. The old boys network still exists though and still recruiting but many men see those kind of men for the misogynists they are. The same for old school women who put down other women’s hard climb up the ladder from subservience while pampering to the fragile male ego. And its not just women having botox and changing their bods..plenty of men are now as insecure about their looks, thats more about vanity and wanting to look ever youthful and perfect no? A media driven campaign to get us spending more money for the so called perfect life.

I wanted to add in case things don’t come across the way I want them to – I’m not saying the soldier is a good old boy or keeping women down or anything. Just that from a public standpoint, keeping women out has historically had real-world consequences beyond the personal comfort of those involved. I don’t think he approves of those consequences or anything.

silly me, put my comment in the wrong place

I think there are hard-wired differences. Certainly not enough to justify gender-based social inequalities. But enough to question our presumptions regarding relationships and sexuality. For example female mice who live alone are more prone to stress vs male mice who live alone. And male mice suffer more anxiety when rooming with a more dominant male vs female mice in similar situation.

I don’t know, I might be different or possibly too old to answer, but there’s also a life-cycle involvement. I guess I wanted a man when I was in my thirties but now maybe not.

Hormonally men and women lose interest in this stuff as they age. I’m not saying we all become these sexless husks — it’s still nice to feel pretty and fun to get a little attention once in a while but there’s just not that burning biological imperative in either gender. With the eighth house now I’m more concerned about money and dying.

So for a big part of the lifecycle — the fertile one — it’s huge. But pre-menstrually and post-menstrually…maybe not.

Primal.