I got this article in my mail today – What Jaron Lanier Thinks of Technology Now : The New Yorker. The caption under the photograph states that Lanier believes that social-networking sites devalue friendship. Here’s an excerpt from the piece by Jennifer Kahn:

“…Last year, he published “You Are Not a Gadget: A Manifesto,” a provocative critique of digital technologies, including Wikipedia (which he called a triumph of “intellectual mob rule”) and social-networking sites like Facebook and Twitter, which he has described as dehumanizing and designed to encourage shallow interactions. Teen-agers, he writes, may vigilantly maintain their online reputations, but they do so “driven more by fear than by love.”

I can surely see his point, however I see the people on this blog and it’s message board buck this trend all the time.  People form real and lasting relationships here. They meet in person by design or sometimes by (lucky) accident. There have been several meet-ups around the country and more are planned.

People are also inordinately generous around here. Countless times, someone has shown up here in trouble and had another user has buy them a consultation.  While the blog is free, I occasionally teach astrology classes for pay and invariably some members pay double, to support the blog as well as give access to someone who can’t afford the fee.  People also tip me and take the time to use the link on the blog to shop Amazon, knowing I will get a commission on whatever they buy.

Christmas time around here, the giving is nothing less than extraordinary. Last year we posted our Amazon wish lists and I don’t think anyone got *nothing*.  It was very moving because I know that many people are lonely…but not around here. Around here, the love flows.

We have a member here who is  extraordinarily ill. She has suffered a heart-wrenching series of setbacks so a couple of weeks ago, I asked that people send her Amazon gift cards.  This was to help her pay for the groceries she buys in bulk and has delivered because it’s so hard for her to get around.

There was an outpouring. Numerous people responded, offering hard, cold cash to help this gal and that is what I call, real connection rather than lip service.

This is a very special group and I am proud and grateful to be one of you. Thank you.



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33 Responses to “If Jaron Lenier Is Right And The Internet Devalues Friendship, The People On This Blog Buck The Trend”

2.
Rachael
Rachael

I find you especially generous with your sharing of your own self, Elsa.

Good times.

 
3.
Elsa
Elsa

Thank you, Rachael. :)

 
4.
Demelza
 
5.
Salali
Salali

It is! You don’t know how happy I was to find this place, when there was turmoil elsewhere (and ongoing in my personal life). I’ve made good online friends from three other places, too, and some I hope to soon meet in person.

I meant to try to donate through Jilly’s Amazon link, last Tuesday. I’m sorry I still haven’t managed it.

 
6.
NikkiE.
NikkiE.

I have to comment on this because this issue has been prevalent in my life lately. So much so, that every time I post here, I am asking myself in the back of my mind how, when and in what ways what I’ve posted here will come back to bite me in the butt.

I’ve been interacting with people on social networking sites and sites like this one for several years, and my experience has taught me that Mr. Lanier is absolutely right, and everyone always thinks their little group, their circle, their social networking site is the exception. It isn’t. In my experience, the people who have an ostensibly different experience have that experience because they have learned to adapt well to the unwritten rules of the new friendship. They’ve learned to accept superficiality as the norm and have adapted well to it.

I deleted my Facebook account recently because I realized that a particular group of people who are part of my distant past but whom I only know online now, have moved even farther away from me as a result of the new social-networking etiquette, if one can even call it that because I see very little of what I grew up recognizing as etiquette involved in it. Some people may venture outside of their comfort zone and meet people they met online, but many more never do and in fact find that they are apprehensive about making a phone call. I find that I, the person who left Facebook due to objections about how online relationships are not relationships at all, am now incredibly uncomfortable about venturing into even a phone call. This comes from a major extrovert (or at least I used to be).

 
7.
alicia
alicia

This made me cry happy tears, thank you Elsa!

 
8.
NikkiE.
NikkiE.

Part of the new etiquette, I have noticed, seems to include what I see here in your other answers. How do I say this? It’s hard to really critically consider this issue and not seem to be criticizing others who don’t see it the way I do, and I’m not looking to offend anyone, I’m just looking to be honest and authentic. I’m going to spit this out. Ergh.

Bobbleheading is the new politeness. People felt the need to contribute by telling you how wonderful your site is, and again, like I said above, proclaim this site’s value. This is a good site, I like it, but its posting and the replies are, in motion, part of the phenomenon I’ve seen more times than I can count. In the wake of the new politeness, the only people it seems are deserving of impoliteness, which can sometimes be doled out on a magnificent scale, are those who won’t bobble, or even worse, who try to say something contrary to what was said by the majority or a strong, vocal minority. I don’t remember communication being so restrained when we used to meet people in the course of our real lives and deal with them in person, nor to do I recall so many incidents of witnessing hostility to a free exchange of thoughts and feelings being met with as open hostility as one can find on social networking and other sites used as such.

It’s not that people cannot and do not choose to use the Internet to express random acts of kindness. They can and they do, and this is a good thing. It’s very Aquarian, this social networking thing. Very group conscious, but I think ultimately damaging to the one-on-one dynamic.

For better or worse, those are my 57 cents. Try not to hate me. :)

 
9.
Elsa
Elsa

NikkiE, I don’t hate you but you’ve been around here about 10 days and I’ve been around here 10 1/2 years so I may have a better grasp on what goes on around here than you do. Maybe. :)

 
10.
NikkiE.
NikkiE.

Elsa, the funny thing is that that reply was very consistent with exactly the points I made. :-) I think you might be, just a tad, over-personalizing with regard to your feelings about your website, rather than discussing the topic of the article as a whole, which is entirely your choice, of course. I was interacting intellectually with you on the topic as a whole, which I think isn’t actually what you wanted. Thus, I respectfully, yield. Have a wonderful evening everyone. :-)

 
11.
Elsa
Elsa

NikkiE if you are around here in a year, you might feel differently about this site. It’s possible. Time will tell. :)

 
12.
darvaish
darvaish

mm I’ve found the people here both interesting and kind by and large, and I think its down to you, Elsa – both in terms of your own character and how you maintain the site. Plenty of strong opinions combined with acceptance, interest and caring.

 
13.
le_soleil
le_soleil

@NikkiE. — Even if anything you said about ‘bobbleheading’ here WERE true, it doesn’t deduct an iota from the fact that peeps here are inordinately supportive and generous. For my part, I feel that it was very rude of you to point out this site’s perceived shortcomings; in response to a heartfelt ‘Thank you’ to it’s regular participants; from it’s hard-working host. If you feel so much like you’re being slighted, I would imagine there’s plenty else you could be doing, that might better suit you. I, for one, sometimes feel muzzled by the majority, but saying what I think isn’t so important to me that I have to go about feeling ripped off about it, as to be insulting. We’re pretty much grown-ups, ’round here.

 
14.
rosey
rosey

well said, Elsa. Well said.

 
15.
Josi
Josi

The sentiment here is obvious and does not need to be defended. I am also very proud to be a regular at this bar :)

 
16.
Salali
Salali

I don’t hate you, Nikkie, but my response was not a bobble-headed one. I have yet to comment on the thread, to say thank you, properly, but did you see the thread I posted a week ago, when I was in shock? I’d just found out that my cousin died in the early hours of the morning. I ended up not being around for the rest of the day, and I think the night (I only remember drinking some alcohol and then getting sick), but did you see the responses to that thread? It wasn’t just one occasion, either – the thread for Jilly, alicia’s baby shower, and other threads here – another recent one was to celebrate Josi’s marriage.

I hope you stick around. :)

 
17.
Alethea
Alethea

Jeez – Why accuse people of “bobbleheading” just bescaues they might *actually* agree with one another? Am I missing something or is all dialog “supposed” to be fraught with conflict in order to be seen as “legit”?? I don’t know – somthing in that line of thinking sounds “off” to me, but then maybe in saying so I’m bucking the trend and not being a bobblehead, LOL! :-P

This is a good blog. I haven’t been around here comparitively long, but know enough to recognize a good thing when I see it. The people here don’t just bob their heads and nod with each other in agreement – there are plenty of hotly-debated topics arond here. More than a few times I’ve found myself as one of the very vocal minority on a particular subject. That doesn’t make me better or worse because I happen to express a dissenting opinion – it just is what it is.

Furthermore, I see how people genuinely rally ’round to actively support others in hard times in more ways than one, so I’m sorry I can’t say that I see where this criticism is directed. If ya don’t like it, you certainly aren’t obligated to hang around. The fact that you’re still here commenting must mean there’s some attraction dispite the expressed cynicizm….

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the people here have all been welcoming towards you, have they not? IIRC, the threads you’ve started have been responded to and people have answered your questions, so why come in and pee in the pool???

 
18.
Elsa
Elsa

“so why come in and pee in the pool???”

Same reason they all do. To get attention. :)

This is a great place to get attention as well! :)

 
19.
WaitWhat
WaitWhat

I don’t see that NikkiE said anything wrong. She agreed with the author up there, but didn’t do so in a way that attacked someone else.

Wow. Just wow.

 
20.
Elsa
Elsa

WaitWhat, I think that people were upset by NikkiE’s comment because this was a post from my heart, directed at people who recently helped someone I love (Jilly). I expect the other commenters feel as I do, that the post was hijacked and degraded by her remarks and that it was in bad taste.

I actually agreed with the man myself in the post. I wanted to acknowledge the people around here. I still do. Thanks, you guys.

 
21.
Salali
Salali

I wasn’t attacking Nikkie, but it did bother me that my comment, alicia’s, and others, might be seen as being bobble-headed and insincere. Last Tuesday afternoon, I was thinking of the thread for Jilly, because the news from my aunt really brought it home again – another person who is very ill, and in trouble (they raised money for my cousin’s treatment this year – her friends held a fundraiser).

I’ve felt that cynical before, when I was a sort of regular participant, but also very shy. I’d had both negative and positive experiences, but a few times, I just saw certain interactions as insincere – until I ended up on the other side of things. I don’t want to go into it, but I was thinking about the fact that I posted here last week – I didn’t go to facebook, where half my friend’s list is comprised of people that I know “in real life”.

I have to go, but I do hope that Nikkie will stick around. I wasn’t attacking her.

 
22.
Elsa
Elsa

I also hope NikkiE will stick around.

 
23.
maureen
maureen

NikkiE, please don’t go! It’s actually kind of fun to disagree on this blog! And I don’t mind being called a bobblehead every once in a while :) It is what it is.

(thank YOU Elsa)

 
24.
Bananas
Bananas

Yes, I agree that this is a wonderful place — so much so, that sometimes I’m intimidated to post for fear that I don’t have the time/energy to “say it just right” or put in the proper amount of care and attention that all these wonderful givers deserve.

NikkiE, I completely get what you’re saying. You must realize that objectivity is not the flavor of this place. Elsa’s group are a crop of sensitive souls. It’s a FAMILY. People are never objective about their family. Are you a Libra perchance?

 
25.
jenfullmoon
jenfullmoon

I think that Facebook devalues “friendship,” but the Internet in general does not.

I mostly say this because “Facebook friend” really doesn’t mean anything in some cases, and it certainly doesn’t pay off as friendship with some people. It’s a token thing to add to your numbers to prove how popular you are. Feh on that!

 
26.
Carielle
Carielle

I think social networking sites reflect much of what life in general reflects: 1. You will find what you’re looking for, and 2. You get out of it what you put into it. If you’re looking for shallow relationships, you’ll find them, because you’ll only superficially interact with people on the assumption that shallow relationships are the “norm” on the internet (or Facebook, or wherever). If, however, you approach online communication as simply another means to get to know people and keep in touch, share common interests, and appreciate each other, then it becomes something else entirely.

 
27.
oanney
oanney

yep you can form great friendships here and on the net, l agree :)

 
28.
CArRiE
CArRiE

“This is a very special group and I am proud and grateful to be one of you.”

ME TOO! ((group.hug))

 
29.
ocean
ocean

Me too Carrie , Oanney , waves flag . I have a bobblehead dog in my vehicle sometimes the head falls off and goes under the seat , but hey thats my driving , and I like it here. Thanks Elsa

 
30.
Glenn
Glenn

@NikkiE… I for one loooove to get “input” from the great many people from around the world. This blog / board has tons of them. It satisfies my Scorpio stellium in 2nd-3rd houses.

I’m a Conservative… which makes me rarity in Astrological circles. I can tell you this… stick around for a few months and you’ll be surprised when the members here will agree with you… from time-to-time.

Hold onto your opinions , but try your best not to crumble under the “growling” that comes your way when the majority disagrees with you. As a minority (opinion & viewpoint) on this board , I can vouch for the genuine acceptance on this board / blog.

I can also vouch that my feathers have been scorched on a few occasions… but they also been lovingly had salve applied by others.

Chin up!! Shoulders back. Be ready to hold a debate… and allow others their viewpoints. And acknowledge when your opinion just may need to be amended.

Staying on this blog /incredibly worth the rough times. I’ve been here a year now… and intend to stay many more **maybe to harass the Scorpio Moons :) **

 
31.
Shaina
Shaina

I agree with Jenfullmoon that Facebook isn’t representative of the Internet. I have what I consider my “tribe,” about fifty regulars that have met up for five years and we all met on Myspace. There have been several observations in that circle lately that Facebook isn’t conducive to making new friends the way Myspace was.

I think the owner/creator of the site/blog sets the energetic intentions for a particular place on the Internet and people respond accordingly to that energy.

 
32.
Jilly
Jilly

Thanks again, bobbleheads!
LOL

& thanks Elsa for using your 8th house transforming mojo on the situation. :D

 
33.
Shaina
Shaina

Haha, Jilly!

 


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