C is for Chiron, Part Two

Beloved Moon inspired me with her question on my Chiron blog post from earlier today. And I was riding the subway, as I usually do, thinking about woundedness and the meaning of an 8th house Chiron.

Sitting next to me on the train was a young mother and her boy in a stroller. Her needs. His needs. Not… connecting. His voice is loud, he wants her attention. Chiron is a train. She’s trying to read and the train keeps moving. Chiron is the tracks. She threatens to hit him, waves her arm. He hits her back, as only a little kid can, with the flimsy newspaper he’s holding. Chiron in the 8th: missing the mark with those you need so very much and need so much from. The mother is then cuddling a man – I hadn’t noticed him at first. And the little boy turns inward, kicks the stroller. She gets frustrated and in a flash she’s had it and… it wasn’t as bad as it could have been, wasn’t as bad as I’ve seen before on the train. Life goes on and the train stops for the next stop, and the boy becomes a man, a wounded man, has a dream of his mother on a train the rest of his life.

Chiron is that ache ugh wound ouch ooch please don’t touch me there it hurts TOO MUCH PLEASE STOP. On the *up* side, I do believe what they say is true: that we help people with what we cannot heal in ourselves. So I have an 8th House Chiron and I have an intimacy wound but also have a knack for making you feel close to me, even when I’m a million miles away. You say you love me, but I have my doubts; that’s my 8th House Chiron.

If your Chiron could talk, what would he say?

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C is for Chiron, Part Two — 72 Comments

  1. I know what you mean about an 8th house Chiron placement. I have mine jacked up next to Saturn, and opposite the infamous Pluto/Uranus conjunction of the mid 60′s. I took pause after reading your post since you had the placement as I did. I realized that description of intimacy you expressed was how I felt, but it hadn’t be excavated. Thanks for poking around in the muck moonpluto!

    I also had to chuckle at myself because the more I pondered my intimate interactions I realized, in the back of my mind they all had a feeling of an intense one night stand experience. I don’t expect the other to stick around for long but I do cherish the experience-even when left feeling I’m feeling lonely.

    Your subway ride was healing!! :-)

  2. “don’t expect anyone to appreciate all you’re gifts and affection, because no one will ever replace the love your father never showed”

  3. I have an 8th house Chiron… Somehow it is related to my body image, and although I know it intuitively, I can’t pinpoint the exact astrology… Maybe because there’s a link between that and my scorpio first house. My sort-of SO and I have our chirons conjunct. Painful, but healing, I think.

  4. Love hurts. That’s Chiron in the 8th as well. I know the 8th isn’t “officially” the LUV House but… it’s the coupling, the intimacy, the expression of the love.

    Love can make you warm and fuzzy but it can also make you feel weak, deformed, disabled, desperate and, yes, wounded.

    Chiron in the 8th people may only want to feel all that s**t for an hour a day. Otherwise it would be too much.

  5. moonpluto I thought you might get a kick out of this- Transiting Venus is conjunct my natal Chiron and the Moon is exactly opposite my Saturn. I just love those details!

  6. @Michelle M, I do have that Chiron Uranus opposition… Chiron at 10 Aries and Uranus at 4 Libra… Pluto is in late Virgo.

    “The feeling of an intense one night stand experience.” Oh my. You nailed it better than me. Thank you. Yep. That’s it exactly. The way you describe it. And with this placement, you take it, you definitely take it because it’s so… it really is… that fulfilling for however long it lasts (a few hours? a night?) even though the recovery will take twice as long, three times as long. Chiron in the 8th people have deep deep sex. I mean that in *how it feels to them* — and then, if the circumstances aren’t right, the pain follows and it’s brutal.

  7. My 7th house Chiron, opposes my 1st house Pluto. Not exactly marriage material, even with my water trine (with Venus in Cancer). Anyone care to remark on this ?

    (((rantares)))

  8. My 10th house Chiron would say “Work harder. You’re not working hard enough. You’re not doing the right work.”

  9. ” Nothing you have, nothing you do, nothing you are, nothing you feel, nothing you could possibly ever offer could be worth anything to anyone. You are inherently worthless and no matter how hard you try to make up for that it comes from a nonentity, nonhuman, worthless being. Nothing you ever do will ever be enough, you don’t deserve to speak or act unless it’s an act of apology. Don’t bother to try your best, it’s not enough, just quit.

  10. Thank you Deb, I have a first house Chiron too, conjunct my moon.I have never known how to interpret it,but your statement felt very familiar to me.I feel that way,even if I know,intellectually it isn’t the case.

    Thanks MP for your lovely post :)

  11. Fortunately, it’s in a grand trine (tight, 2 degrees) with Jupiter and Neptune, so if I just get in tune with the divine Is, I can find my way out of it.

    Intellectually, I’m like what? I was blessed with a lot of gifts this time around. There is no logical reason to feel inferior. What still breeds the inferiority is that I *was* given so much and seem to have not done anything with it. A sense of wasted gifts when I look around at people who have done so much with so little. Inferiority in a different sense – can’t seem to fully escape it.

  12. reading through everyone’s comments, chiron just seems so self loathing.. and i myself back up that sentiment (as my previous quote demonstrates). but i really do believe that he is also the driving force that makes me want to help people.. through all his pain and suffering, he eventually became one of the most revered teachers to instruct the children of the gods.

    so how is it we could use the force behind our wounds to enrich the lives of others? ..and perhaps in the process maybe even heal that which can’t be healed….

  13. in Gemini 12th house…feels like the little mermaid after she loses or rather sells her voice. I live in my head and have these great borderline genius ideas/thoughts/insights but when I speak, either no one listens or wants to hear what I’m saying or it doesn’t come out how I intend it. Lifelong feelings of voicelessness, dreams of silent screams, not speaking up or saying too much at the wrong time them feeling ashamed and running away or basically being cast out for speaking truths no one wants to hear. I write poetry that no one reads or hears, I read blogs I never comment on. I’m scared to stay in one place for too long. I could go weeks, months, years without saying a word.

    Plus I always lose the guy to some chatty social butterfly type except it’s really that I push them away with my constant non communication for fear of being rejected. Then I get to rationalize that those guys wouldn’t have liked me much anyways since they move on so quickly to those chatty, social butterfly types.

  14. about the healing aspect…I am told my words heal or I say/write things other people have a hard time putting in to words.

    but how does one overcome their own wound enough to want to help? or is it about accepting the wound and learning to love the pain by not running away from it?

  15. @excessionista, I don’t believe that everyone is a “helper” or needs to help. It’s not a good or bad thing. Just some people have that tendency or purpose/path.

    Not sure about loving the pain. I don’t love it. What’s your opinion?

  16. I have to say, I’m called upon at times to comfort those who are feeling really shitty about themselves. I’m pretty good at that empathy thing. Guess something good comes out of it. (But then I feel like an impostor who doesn’t know what she’s talking about, and it starts ALL over again.)

  17. Chiron at 29 Aquarius on the cusp of the 12th house, in a mystic rectangle with Mars, Uranus, and Jupiter.

    I would say that my own pain is hidden, but that I feel others pain so intensely that I have to shield and protect myself sometimes. Wanting to help others heal is supported elsewhere in my chart. If I open myself up too much to the pain in others I become overwhelmed. Maybe that is my wound. I have Neptune sitting there now dissolving boundaries, accentuating this.

  18. WOW! What a nice surprise.

    Thank you for sharing, your example hurts to read… “Her needs. His needs. Not… connecting”

    That story sounds so painful to me. This sounds like a wound that cuts deep to the soul.

    I’ve never heard of the 8th house as a “Love house”, but it makes sense to me, and from the example you gave, how would the boy ever feel or know that his mother loves him when she doesn’t value his needs as important?

    I like reading your stories MoonPluto, it sounds like your energy is a little similar to mine.

    My Chiron is in the 8th, involved in a “exact orb” T-square with my Sun in the 2nd house, and my Moon in the 5th. And I’m at a loss myself as to how it will manifest in the future, or what it means. But when I look at my past I can see clearly it’s work.

    As far as being able to make others feel intimate, even at a distance, that rings a bell too. My best friend(who wants to be the worlds best Don Juan for some stupid reason) pointed out to me once that I was a natural seducer, one of the best he’s ever seen.

    Took me a while to understand what he was talking about, but when he lifted the veil I was quite embarrassed because I had no idea that I naturally try to seduce everyone I meet, all my friends, and their “significant others” as well. Not to get into anyone pant, just to be close. Talk about sending the wrong message.

    I also feel like I will never be loved. Like if I ever settled down, the best I have to hope for would be to marry a friend, that I can count on to have a family with. But love? No. No one will love me as much the 8th house, or Scorpio Venus demands….

  19. ((le_soleil))

    My sister has a 7th house chiron. She’s happily married to a guy that had tried to get with her for 8 years before she gave him a chance. They are very much in love. However all her personal planets are in the 8th and they trine his sun, square his moon.

  20. I have Chiron in Pisces in 4th, opposing Pluto in 10th, trine Neptune in 12th. Can you say Family Karma??? I’m the one who took on the family karma and am healing emotional/psychological issues that no one else in the family would be able to do. I had an extremely karmic relationship with my Dad that was to be finished in this life, and could only be healed by spiritual means (Pisces). Yay, that is done.

    Actually, my biggest wound that seems it will never go away is a physical one. I have a lower back injury that is extremely limiting and debilitating to me. It keeps me from feeling that I can do the 4th house caretaking that I need to do for myself, or anyone else. I’ve wondered if this was due to Pluto being the ruler of my Scorp. ascendant, as well as 4th/10th axis being the “spine” of the chart. What do you guys think??

    Then I have to endure people telling me that it’s not as bad as I think it is and I’m just stuck in victim consciousness. Maybe that Pisces “wound” is a lifetime of feeling “weak” or debilitated in some way. Not exactly what I would have chosen consciously.

    On the positive side, I am compassionate, and a natural counselor. Everyone tells me their problems and generally feels safe and comfortable with me.

  21. l have Chiron Taurus 8th house l wonder what the wound is and can’t find it. l know love can hurt but at some point l felt real deep love so l know now it’s possible. The wound was big in my teens and in the beginning of my 20ties. l was never afraid to get close to people.
    It can’t be that people with Chiron 8th can’t find the deep love they need.
    l also agree with the seducing part, l think l’ve always done that myself. l have Chiron conjunct Venus and Mars.
    Still l don’t get Chiron 8th on a deeper level. l can’t grasp the true meaning of it.

  22. @oanney, I definitely feel deep love, have felt deep love. I don’t think an 8th Chiron prevents that at all – in fact, kind of the opposite. It intensifies it. And of course, as always, one has to examine the condition of Chiron in the chart, and so on. Mine is in a t-square so this easily factors in. And as themes go in charts, my Chiron sitch only reinforces what’s already shown by other planetary relationships. YMMV and I do take some poetic license. But at the same time, I think the grain of truth is there. A kind of “hurting” around our deeper relationships with people (8th H).

  23. @Beloved Moon, I don’t mean to literally describe the 8th as a love house… but thinking of the wheel itself, that side of it… and skipping over the 6th for a moment (the work house)… we’ve got 4th/family(beginnings), then we’ve got 5th/love (romance) then 7th/partnership that’s contractual and then 8th/sex… Kinda logical, right? It’s all connected.

  24. … i relate the wound to hypocricy that hurts pisces, with chiron in pisces in the 6th

    @moonpluto, i was inspired by your post to read up a bit more on 6th house chiron and found a thread at astroweekly with several people w/same placement as myself expressing ‘not sure what it means’ feelings- jeremy from chiron report added to thread – he, too has 6th h. pisces chiron and said he felt it as a spiritual wound, something he had experienced as depression
    i leave the thread here for those 6th house chiron curious: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8552

    @rantares113 – you’re comment was – as moonpluto said, powerful – and stopped me in my tracks….raising a son more-or-less on my own and knowing he has to face some of the same emotions makes me think about it- perhaps, recognizing the pain and voicing it as you have will blunt the edge of that knife…it doesn’t need to cut you anymore

  25. @MP yes l agree that 8th house Chiron can make you feel deep love and long for it. But with Venus and Mars there it’s all l want anyhow. That might be why l can’t see my 8th h. Chiron then. l still don’t get it..l feel that scorpio/8th h. has a some pain when relating to others on a depper level either way??
    It’s part of feeling so deeply right? You go deep and can get hurt, give yourself all the way etc…l guess it makes you vulnarable and prone to feel pain more easy…l could be wrong, trying to get my Chiron for a while now…

  26. I have chiron conjuct saturn in pisces in the 7th and I have always struggled to be present, to be in the body, to experience life in a “normal” way, everything seemed futile and senseless, I was always watching the human drama from afar, not quite understanding the human condition. Philosophy and astrology really helped and now I can be a conscious actress in the play! My chiron would like to cry out: stop the power plays, stop the strife, you are only victim of your ego!

  27. @lindsey being dramatically blunt has always been one of my greatest weapons when combating pain. (H4 chiron opposite H10 sun/mercuryR). but obviously, it isn’t for everyone.. if someone had said to me those same words when i was younger (before i’d worked through my pain and accepted its source), i think it would have ruined me.

    it’s like, forcing the shock value of a sentiment pulls out the obvious and uninternalizes the pain. i find chiron can very easily drive me to self-pity, which is never anywhere i want to be. but chiron is also trine my moon which definitely helps ease the emotional flow.

    i think, when dealing with chiron in any person, you have to be aware of THAT person and where they are in the process of realizing their “wound”.. being blunt and un-nerving works for me because i already know how i’m hurt. for most everyone else on the planet, i doubt that’s the case.. so subtlety is in order. but either way, i do also believe it takes the presence (or actions) of someone else (third party) to bring those deepest of injuries to the surface.

  28. I have chiron at 1 pices retrograde in the third house. What does it mean? What am I suppose to heal? (DOB 7 7 1960 – 100w03, 51n03)

  29. @ranteres113 — I hear you, where your awareness about Chiron & self-pity are concerned. I think the transcendence is in finding self-acceptance and self-compassion, where one’s Chiron-related stuff is concerned. While perhaps it does represent an un-healable wound, Chiron is also our Karma. The sooner we embrace it, the sooner we can get on with being the best people we can be; given what one has to work with (the rest of one’s chart, upbringing, innate talents/gifts), yes ? : ) I’m just saying I feel you, and your openness makes me wonder about your Uranus placement…

  30. @beloved moon — thanks for the hug ! I think I have to figure out how to be in relationship and not disappear (Pisces/7th). I was married for 19 years, and miserably invisible for most of it. No one is an island, but relationships have meant dissolution of self; for me. Maybe the challenge is to learn to ‘do’ partnership, while maintaining my own identity. So far, my failure to do that has been epic; beginning with choosing a partner. So far, mine have been so demanding as to lose ‘me’ altogether. I’m older and wiser, now…

    I’m very happy for your sister and her marriage; I hope she thrives with her partner and all that it brings !

  31. “So you think using your money to feed people will help them see your worth?”

    Chiron in Taurus/2nd House aspecting: Merc., Mars, Sat. and Nep.

  32. Mine is third house, Aqaurius, retrograde.

    Feels like……if you speak the truth, you will die. If you ask for help, no one will hear you, or want to.
    Geez. I’m pitiful today.

  33. @le_soleil, I also have Pisces on 7th – not disappearing in relationship: definitely a challenge – I’ve consulted with Elsa more than once who had many many wise things to say about this “issue”

  34. MP – yep, it’s me with the dogs and horses.
    Sorry. I’m having an awful day/week. With the Libra Full moon intensity for me, all I can think of today is….I want to go Home. And today, the slightest kindness makes me burst into tears. Like yours.

  35. @rantares113… i understand, i’ve used bluntness myself… to create a buffer zone. you have me thinking about the third person (actions) to bring things to surface…did you mean a third person to heal? or to provoke the pain? i think you meant the first, this may be true, or true for many

    i wanted to make a correction on my post
    jeremy is not from chiron report (had chiron on the brain!) he is from Chirotic Journal….sorry jeremy if you’re reading here!!

    http://chirotic.wordpress.com/

    @moonpluto, thanks again for posting topic with such sensitivity

  36. @rantares113, I know what you mean about the “dramatically blunt” thing – I do that too. I like it. It helps. And that kind of language isn’t a cry for help at all – but people often misunderstand it (sometimes)

  37. @lindsey, thank you for the link and the correction. Love *your* sensitivity! I forget what country you are in but hope you are having a beautiful day, wherever you are :)

  38. Thanks, MP – I’ve been hugging them alright. My Aussie is licking my face – he’s very sympathetic when his momma cries. (I do it so little, I suspect he’s a bit shocked.)
    We walked this morning. My elder girl was not happy – it’s raining.
    Kinda like my face.
    Thank you so much.

  39. Aww Kim, hope you find some comfort and relief.

    Is Aussie the name or do you have an Australian Shepherd? I lived with one of those once, briefly, TONS of energy and huge and beautiful coat!

  40. @ le soleil sorry for taking so long to comment on your placement. but i was just looking into the chiron/pluto oppostition, and found an excerpt from barbara hand clow’s book “chiron-transforming bridge between inner and outer planets” she says that chiron and pluto actually work well in opposition, as chiron is (as the title claims) the bridge between personal dynamics and conscious attunement; and pluto thusly the bridge to the galactic subconscious.

    in opposition both entities are fully expressed, pluto prodding the inner mind and chiron urging the higher self to help him continue deeper. with pluto in the first i imagine you have the deepest of depths to conquer, but with chirons help you should consider it a challenge rather than a barrier.

    the intense personal awareness that pluto commands is also the strength behind your supreme magnetism. i think it would be to your benefit, as far as any relationship is concerned, to acknowledge that attempting to maintaining partnership harmony by dislowing personal expression (chirons influence in the 7th) will only make pluto fester. relish in the depths of who you are. let those secret emotions be seen.

    of course i’m not saying, run out and express yourself. there is a time and a place for everything, and i believe your time and place for self expression is a very small and magical moment very few people SHOULD ever see.. it is that special.

    as far as marriage, honesty is always the best road.. even when it hurts. remember that you are not you AND your partner. the two are separate, and individuals must communicate and work together in order to be a a successful pair. beyond that, i’d say check out juno.. she’ll tell you who to look for.

  41. @ lindsey.. i think i mean both actually. it takes an outside influence to dredge up the pain, at least it has for me. i always knew it was there, but until recently, didn’t know where it was manifesting from. i actually had quite the epiphany after my most recent heart break.. i realized that my pain had nothing to do with his rejection, or being rejected by any of my previous loves. i was hurt because i felt rejected by my family, and most particularly my father.

    in truth, i was never rejected by my father.. he’s right downstairs! lol but my early mind had deluded me into believing this was true. and it took the pain of rejection from a third party for me to see that.. it was also that same third party who helped me heal. i was lucky to have my harbinger of subconscious revelations be a very caring and understanding soul mate.

    i don’t think anyone can force those wounds to rise to the surface in another human being, chiron will ensure they in good time and when they are supposed to. but, i do believe, as chiron himself is a testament, that the guidance and understanding of a healing entity is always beneficial, no matter who you are or what the circumstance.

  42. being dramatically blunt is my version of giving myself a kick in the pants.. i don’t ask for help too often, there’s a part of me that sees that as weak. WHOLE OTHER ISSUE!! lol

  43. @ lindsey: i think i mean both.. it takes a third person to bring up the pain (at least for me), and it takes a third person to heal. for me it was the same person, and i was lucky enough to have him be a caring and understanding soul mate. we met at the peak of my first saturn return and he at his second.. i showed him he COULD love, and he showed me i CAN BE loved. the timing of that relationship was down to the second. (his chiron is just above the descendant, square saturn, opposed uranus.. lots of relationship issues)

    i believe, chiron will bring about the healing process when he sees fit. it may take someone else to help the process along, but i don’t think it can be forced. in my experience, the pain is but a catalyst.. the end result is being a stronger me.

    ((at first, i freudianly typed stranger… yep))

  44. @MP — It’s a tough one, ‘eh ? Relationship-wise, that is. My Chiron/Pisces/7th h. thing is only magnified by my 12th house Sun placement. Serve or suffer, check. Try not to dissolve into those you serve… What ?! I may as well aspire to split the atom with kitchen utensils ! I hear you about the consult, I’m taking notes, thanks. : )

  45. @ranteres113 — thanks for responding, I appreciate you ! My book purchasing has tapered off quite a bit in recent years, saving diminished shelf space for only must-haves, and you’ve got me wanting to get that book, now.

    I have 1st h. Juno conjunct Mars. They’re in the late degrees, out of orb to the Uranus/Pluto conj., there.

    Your having 11th h. Uranus makes me think ‘revolutionary friendships’, or that you must be a dynamic friend to yours. Tres cool !

  46. I just want to say I think it’s perfection that Chiron can’t be defined. He’s a planetoid, proto-comet/asteroid/spacial waste discovered by a Socrpio. His star is between the ass-end of Saturn and the elbow of Uranus. No one knows what the fuck he is technically speaking and that’s how I like my men. He’s what I want to be some day: those who suffer most can teach the most.

  47. @ranteres113 — Thanks for that link, it was very informative ! ‘The Chiron oppose Pluto native cannot live a simple or trivial life’; that describes me spot-on ! I made a conscious decision when I was very young, to break some longstanding, toxic family patterns. While my life may be described as complicated and sometimes lonely, as a result; simple and trivial it’s not.

  48. Chiron in Cancer in the 4th house.

    “Your family will never understand you and they can’t support you emotionally because they’ll never understand you.”

  49. I realize I’m a few months late, but I just had to respond. I have Chiron in Taurus in the 8th house conjunct Venus, Mars and Juno, all opposed Uranus. I also have Saturn trine Chiron and Jupiter square Chiron. That being said, my Chiron would say “I own you.” :)

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