Got the same natal square MP and some relationships have been very hard for me. I am finally getting wise thank you Saturn in Libra to the fact that it is I who must change as you state in your post “live or die!”

Another great post I really enjoy your take on things.

Thanks Patrice!

@Lona I won’t be back at my computer until later today but have lots to say on this topic!
Please check back

What about a conj. Is rejection too? I have venus+satu+pluto conj in scorpio in my 8th h.

ugh. i have venus saturn exact conjunct at 12 cancer with the added bonus of them both being square Pluto and opposite my MOON IN CAPPY! UGH UGH UGH. I would trade that aspect in in a freaking second. Like, I just imagine them on top of each other rolling down a hill forever, occasionally standing up to fight with my emotions or blow everything completely out of the water.

/funtimes!

I have Venus is opposed to Saturn (My Saturn Rx in Cancer which is also conjunct Mars Rx – and my venus is also conj Sun and Vesta, so all that’s a mash).
Added that doozy, like you I have Moon square Pluto.

So if anyone tells me relationships are easy, I emit a hollow laugh and go back to nurturing my Taurus Moon with a piece of chocolate cake, and my Mercury with another hour on the laptop while watching the TV!

I’ve just about given up. Whatever I’ve done, and I’ve tried it every which way from totally committed to completely open free and easy, it’s never right and never enough…

Yeah, whatever it is that makes me so manic sometimes (that feeling of must do this NOW, otherwise).

I have Venus widely conjunct Saturn. I haven’t experienced it as very difficult, but I have had two very long relationships accounting for about half my life.

Saturn has been opposing my husband’s natal venus in Aries this past year, Caroline. He’s been having to do with ex-wife issues that should have been cleared up 4, 5 years ago. Our own love life is good though. Maybe Saturn is telling you to clear the past before reaping the rewards of the future/present? Saturn is transiting my first house too–it sucks but I’m learning a lot about boundaries…and limitations. Ugh.

I have the square natally as well, with Venus in the 7th Pisces to boot. I have always been alone and felt very lonely, sad and old throughout my life, it never seems to get any better. I love men who will never love me back, I’m never “good enough” for love and how can I love myself if no one else will? Very tough aspect and lots of bad timing.

However, I’ve thought about the positives of this aspect. For me anyway, it creates a kind of spectator on the sidelines of love, watching everyone else in their failed marriages struggle after the fact to deal with their inadequacies, watched women get pregnant on the sly to trap a man, seen people mistreat their significant others out of spite or fear, watched everyone around me make their mistakes in love while I’m still getting a table for one or anonymously browsing match.com for table scraps. This IS a learning aspect in that way and there comes the wisdom you mention.

You think living the Venus/Saturn square is hard? You should try living an exact quincunx…

yes, have an exact (within a minute) opposition, on the Nodes (Saturn/South and Venus/North). It’s hard work, yes – frustrating, yes, and prone to rose-tinted fantasy (Neptune’s at the midpoint). But ever since I started studying astrology, I’ve known it’s a life’s work, or more accurately this life’s work (given the connection to the Nodes). Love – Venus – is something that’s been denied me, or which I’ve denied myself, in too many previous lives. I have to get it right this time. Had a pretty disastrous start (with someone with a Venus/Saturn opposition!), then a long break. Long long break. Venus is now progressing to a trine with Saturn, which is obligingly retrograde which makes the progression quicker. Venus (love) meets Saturn (faithfulness and loyalty) which makes me confident about finding a lasting, faithful love in mid life. I may have had to wait for it but, as the saying goes, if it’s worth having, it’s worth waiting for.

i have the two conjunct in libra (my 9th house), within 4 minutes of the same degree. they are also loosely conjunct my moon to one side and jupiter to the other. i find that i love hard and fast; with full emotion. then, the second i step back, all i see are flaws and reasons to avoid the relationship. i justify an end by convincing myself “it is the right and logical thing to do” in order to avoid eventual heartache. but once i’ve cut ties i miss the affection and regret giving up so easily. in most cases i have been able to maintain at least some sort of friendship with each of my loves. my most recent love involved an incredible metaphysical bond and chemistry (more so than i’ve experience ever before); i in full throws of my first saturn return, he in his second (also.. within a few minutes of the same degree). we continue to have a mutual respect for the idea that our bond is one that has transcended lifetimes; but this time around, the difference in age became to much to handle. knowing and believing that age should have no importance in the matter wasn’t enough, and societal constructs won out. but, as we have helped each other through the restructuring of saturns returns in both our lives, we reconstructed our love affair into friendship. in the end, saturn has helped me better understand HOW i love and the process involved in building a relationship.

I have this aspect too! What bugs me is that my Saturn is in Libra and Venus is in Capricorn. Huh?? I guess they both want love but with good solid foundations.. But I am a Sag I just want to jump in and have fun!

Another one with it here, and it does blow. It’s probably one of the worst things in my chart, though really, there’s so much to choose from

In my experience, I have very few options to choose from in the dating world, 99% of the options are just plain awful, and on the rare occasion when I end up in a relationship, the problem is NOT that I am too cold. No, no, I am too warm and gushing and they want me to hold the hell back because I smother. Hence why I have had to learn to be cold.

UGH.

also, longevity, and he’s older than me

Another Saturn sq. Venus here – along with Moon (conj. Saturn) and Neptune (conj. Venus) for the ride.

It’s why I’m working my ass off on cleaning up myself. I really don’t want to go through what I went through with my ex again. :\

@lindsey, it is *hard* but worth it. Thank you.

@Tam, you live in the 12th House right?

And I don’t mean all this venus saturn stuff as one big complaint but as a problem that can be dealt with –

I think one has to be IN relationship to really get to the root of this and… find some peace/happiness with another. Venus Saturn is sooo much about the other person. We need them. But we flip out!

What can you do on your own though: you have to be so freaking mindful of your own patterns… You just have to. I think it’s the only way to avoid the quicksand, the loop, the self sabotage. Have to find what works for you, what keeps you aware/present/conscious. And you’ll still fall, you’ll still “do it,” you’ll still mess up but… differently? Or a little bit less?

@moonpluto no BUT my upcoming solar return has Jupiter conjunct natal Venus!!!

I could have sworn I had venus semi-square saturn…but it’s a semi-sextile.

MP, I’m curious…what do you make of sextile, semi-sextile, and trine?

@mahchi, I think that happens a lot — say, you have a hard aspect and it’s kind of “weak” BUT then you have it show up in other ways that just pile on. My square is wide but I claim it, I feel it. And I’ve also got, for example, Cap on my 5th.

That really epitomizes it for me: the wanting and the pushing away.

Thanks Morgan

late to the table here on this one. Juicy bits still for the eatin’ tho.

I have the square, amongst other things. He has the sextile. (lucky bastar&).

I reject him, he rejects me, we both go round and round. I attribute none of it to our saturn venus and all of it to other medical issues on his end and horrid habits on my end.

Blessed Place – I have some similarities in my chart with a pluto square and moon square and my mars/saturn conjunct etc. I can relate that it’s not easy.

Right now we’re on an upswing with some good things happening in our relationship which means i have more time for me and so I’m more talkative here on the boards and doing more stuff for me in my life. The last few years I disappeared into the relationship as it’s been a survive or die kind of situation. Which means every spare moment went into working on me and me in the relationship. I don’t expect this to last forever and that there will be a downswing once again and I”ll have to work my way up from the bottom again. However, I think some of the things we’ve gotten through have meant or will mean some longer term ability to build other things on top of.

I don’t know if this makes any sense to anyone. I went through a lot of rejection, me, him, doesn’t matter in the long run, before I got to one I could marry. People who don’t know us think it’s a beauty and the beast match, people who know us can’t imagine a better matched (sense of humor, mental, emotional) couple.

I don’t know what to say about the square except to say that I have it and would agree that it is enormous work. But in many ways I really don’t mind and actually prefer it this way. I also don’t do bubbly happy either so…. maybe it’s just my personality overall.

OOPPS I meant a Fixed Grand Cross in the 1H Pluto-Leo,7H Venus-Aquirius,4H-Saturn-Scorpio,10H-Mars/Moon-Taurus.

Laura – ROFL. I think you underestimate yourself. Take your mars saturn venus pluto and throw in the moon and make it a series of t-squares and… well, I can relate

And no, not many takers but I’ll bet you’re not boring and are looking for someone with some depth yourself.

At least that was me and I have to say it takes time to find someone with depth. (read saturn/venus time for love)

I got the trine (Venus/Saturn – my moon sextiling both planets). It works very well for me with relationships as I’m very deeply committed, but I was also told that it makes it “easier” for me to think that relationships ARE hard.

The benefit of this aspect, I find is that I can easily be resourceful about where I get my income while self-employed (A “hustler”, as my friend calls me). I have a sound business sense.

The flipside though…

1) I’ve always battled with poor self-esteem. I was told by an astrologer that the Venus/Saturn trine makes it TOO EASY to criticize myself. I’m a whole lot better now, but sometimes I still get moments of self-defeat (that might also be my sun in 12th house)

2) Relationships are deeply committed but I often feel that it’s A LOT of work – I don’t mean this in a bad way, but I’m the type of person that will go far and wide for my relationship.

Saturn conj Venus in Aquarius in the 12th conj ASC. Uranus conj Pluto in Virgo in the 7th, Leo Cusp. Looking back at my two failed marriages, I allowed my Aquarius to grant both of them too much slack during dating. They both hid their true selves from me until after marriage (and I was looking, too). Both men (boys?) wanted immediate exclusivity with me. They both turned out to be lazy, abusive losers. I filed divorce both times. I’m hoping that I can still have a happy marriage with someone probably older than me, and/or someone who owns his own Aquarian company. I have always been completely up-front and honest about what I expect in a relationship (Virgo), and these guys still lie their asses off. Is there any hope for me? My Aries Sun will never give up trying!

Welcome Oriana

@moonpluto Thanks

Morgan, yeah I wasn’t specific but it’s a bit similar in my case – I’ll get pissed about something and sometimes do the V/S rejection thing, then pine like crazy (secretly tho), be really hurt and shortly after there he is having a great relationship with someone else. Being very mistrustful I look for any sign of insincerity, manipulation, sexism, dishonesty, you name it. When I find something, which I usually do, and call them on it… well it seems as if I teach them a lesson so they can go on and be better with someone else. At least that’s the way it appears…

So I fell in love with V sq S, Scorp man. – Ven in Cap- Saturn in Libra. And I have met him 1 month into his saturn return also!! I am a few years older so natuarlly thats Saturn choosing. However we have never been able to get a relationship off ground. But it was pretty much love at first sight! He said that to me. He also confessed to always being a player. But then he met me and that went to shit. We had many intimate night together that are so filled with passion, it consumes the both of us. This may be due to my Sun trining his pluto, his Saturn, his, moon and jupiter! His sun trines my Sat and moon. HOWEVER, he is in Sat ret and the Aries Stelium has opposed his Libra Stellium AND he has the Cardinal cross!!!!! Man Im doomed.

Nevertheless, he has pushed me far away with the most mean tactics, saying he used me the whole time. So any thoughts on if I could be a karmic relationship to him? Like I’m meant to be part of his lesson in love? Cause I’d have to say its so not fair. But today, I felt it in my bones, of missing his touch so much. I miss the seemingly genuin way he would touch my face. Its crazy for me to believe he wasnt genuin. Dang, Im hurting so bad, I literaly feel it through out be body. By him being that mean, could that be a test? Or am I an idiot for thnking he feels for me?

Welcome, bb.