Pluto In Capricorn: Psychology & Shadow Side Of Parenting – Single Mothers: The Government As Co-Parent Of Your Child
Astrology in real life
‘Someone said this to me yesterday,” I told, Annalisa. “It’s brilliant. She said, all these women are single parents so they want the government to be the daddy.” I explained what I read on the the teaching kids sex in schools thread. ‘See, they send their kid to school and daddy, the government, talks to the kid and then they come home and Mommy fills in. Get it? The government is the new daddy for these kids.”
“That’s exactly right.”
“I think so too. And they think they can control this thing, the government, that has no heart, no mind and no soul. They think they have control and I told them, right now the government is teaching something they may agree with. It is gay-friendly and people like that. They don’t seem to realize if they give over their rights to parent to the government, the government can start teaching something they don’t like.”
“That’s true too.”
“Yeah well that is hard for people to understand. There is no man so this is the substitute man and it is a jacked up situation. The government is no daddy. The government doesn’t know anything about your kid, nor does it care for them, it is not even human but anyway I wanted to ask you something else. You know. One of those Elsa-questions so I can figure this out…”
And that will be another post.
Meantime, can anyone else see the collective substituting, “government” as daddy and do you really think this can work?
Skip to Psychology Of Parenting /Government / The System As Parent Redux
46 Responses to “Pluto In Capricorn: Psychology & Shadow Side Of Parenting – Single Mothers: The Government As Co-Parent Of Your Child”
Two things; a) Respectfully wondering if and why children with resident fathers are unaffected by government patronage. b)The government is surely a product of the people, not the other way round so is neither separate from the collective or any more responsible. Forgive me I’m English and maybe not understanding properly how it is with you in the States. It’s an interesting question bearing in mind that the effect of Pluto in Cap. will only manifest in one short generation and will be followed by a potentially collective based period in Aquarius.
what shannon said.
seadaughter, a single mother – no one has her back. She’s on her own.
When a man is in the home, supporting the mother – the government message carries virtually no weight at all.
I think the theory is a huge pile of bullshit. There are a lot of reasons why a woman is a single mother. My mother was married to my father and had his six kid, but she was a single mom for most of our childhoods. My grandmother was married to my grandfather, but she was a single mom before my mom was even born. She caught my grandfather cheating during her pregnancy. My great grandmother was married, but a fire killed my greatgrandfather and made her a widow in her early 30s.
My sisters both had children out of wedlock. These children had fathers. The fathers were involved in their children. My sister, Patti, wouldn’t move more than a short drive from her child’s father so he could grow up close to his dad. My other sister married the father of her unborn child.
On the other hand, I know a lot of kids who grew up fatherless even though they were born in wedlock. Marriage doesn’t guarantee a father in a child’s life.
Flip, I didn’t speak as to WHY women are single parents, nor did I judge them.
What I am saying is the government is not a parent but there is a hole in many families and it is being filled in this way… and not very well as blood and heart and soul actually matter.
Sorry to react so strongly, but I have known a lot of single moms and there are no holes in their families. OTOH, I known way too many adults who take no responsibility and they try to pass their job onto others. Ask any kindergarten teacher and they will tell you how kids come to school with no sense of discipline. The parents expect the school ti displine their children for them. (This has nothing to do with being single).Then the schools don’t want to take responsibility. They want to refer all of the discipline problems to the police. The police have been asked to arrest 6 year olds who are having tantrums. The police who used to excercise discretion will arrest anyone. The six year was arrested in a Florida classroom. It goes on and on. This is an issue of a nation of irresponsible adults.
I disagree being single has nothing to do with lack of discipline. I am afraid you are making my point.
The school (system / Saturn) or the cops (authority / Saturn) stand in as daddy.
The mother says, ‘Do this, and the father says, “Do what your mother says,” and no cops are needed because the kid meets this unified front and gets the message.
Parenting is broken, I’ve heard Elsa say…and I agree. Gov’ment ain’t gonna fix it. It originates far deeper…it’s a cultural meltdown.
I think I get you, Elsa. This past Spring, I taught art in a really low-income section of a city in the Northeast. The kids’ parents were very hands off, and I was working with second graders. The teachers were over-worked and under-paid, and yet they were probably the most stable influence in many of these kids’ lives.
Me: “What does your Dad do for a living?”
One really bright kid: “He doesn’t do anything. But he buys me all kinds of stuff.”
Meanwhile, the teachers in the school were dosing on prescription-strength ibuprofen to make it through the day…
And on the other side of this, I am about to become a single mother. I don’t want anyone else raising my kid. I’ve learned that I need to ask for support when I need it. A HUGE lesson for a greatly humbled Scorp with Taurus rising…
Thank you Elsa, this is as it should be – fact is, unfortunately we are now in second and third generation families without men being in a clearly defined role. Discipline can only effectively take place in an atmosphere of trust and respect; sadly lacking in this country either in homes or government. I don’t know the answer except that what is won by force eg. corporal punishment, police, military etc can be taken back by force so seems a waste of energy.
Actually, the issue is how you see mothers. I don’t need my husband to back me up. I am the alpha female in the family. Likewise, my mother had issues before and after the divorce, but she made sure her kids behaved. There was no way that anyone of us would have misbehaved in public. We minded our manners.
When I was in the kid, if you were caught smoking cigarettes in the restroom, you got detention. Today, the school calls the police to arrest you. It is not about an unifed front. It is about no one taking responsibility. The cycle stops when some says to the irresponsible party no. For example, my best friend was prosecuting attorney when the school asked her to prosecute high schoolers for smoking cigarettes. She said no. The school had to deal with it.
Well it is hard for a mother to do all this alone. To support the family and cover every other base. Also, there is also a great variance among children. Some are easier to raise than others.
In other words you may very well be from a line that tended to behave. Some mothers have no such luck. Society blames them for their unruly children but I remember an article awhile back about a mother with 4 sons. They boys were running her over. They were just maniacs and finally she gave up. She walked, got a hotel, got arrested and blah blah.
I sympathized with her. There may be a woman out there who could handle a certain 4 boys but it was pretty easy for me to imagine 4 boys that could not be contained by 1 woman. It’s just too much.
Matter of fact, I couldn’t do it. 4 boys pulling crap and hold down a full time job that paid enough to support them? I would need the government at some point ($, discipline, etc.) and I think this is more “reality” than a case where I suck.
I think the question is: Is parenting a 2-person job. I think up until 50 or so years ago people would have answered yes, ideally a family is raised by 2 adults who have mothering and fathering type energies (I think these are very different energies but open to whatever gender(s) can do the job). Can it be done singly…maybe, but an already very difficult job has become so much more difficult. I don’t think it serves any purpose for our culture to ignore that fact. just my two cents
I guess I should that I am not a parent…because I didn’t want to do it alone and it took me too long to get my shit together and all the pieces in place. I couldn’t have it all.
Interesting…..I was a single mother up until I got married 4 years ago. I was raised in a home with both parents, but believe me my mom was the disciplinarian AND wore the pants in the family,lol. Having my mom as a role model I had no issues having both roles and working a full time job. I do have to say my daughter had male role models her Grandpa(my dad) was and is very close with her, also my brother, and male friends in her life.
On another note her father wanted to continue to be a child and have women take care of him, he has both parents at home and he well is what HE is,lol. His culture is also a little different than mine, his mom busted her ass working and taking care of the family while “daddy” played all day doing his “business”.
OK, so the government is now Big Daddy in addition to Big Brother! It really does make one want to throw their hands up and move to some isolated island… of course there aren’t so isolated islands any more with Satellite GoogleMaps… ugh!
Separate but related in regards to the children, the parents and the system – Shadow Side Of Parenting redux
I am enjoying this discussion Elsa. I think that parenting is very difficult. It is easier with a cooperative partner. OTOH, both my mother and mother-in-law had lots of children in a close span of time (6 kids in 8 years and 8 kids in 10 years). They were married to men in a time period where women were in complete control of the house and kids. They did not get support. They got a little crazy, maybe a lot crazy a couple of times. Yet they had a strong work ethic and strong sense of responsibility.
There are families with two parents in which neither parent takes responsibility to make the kids brush their teeth and go to bed at a decent time.
flip, I am glad you like it!
I think there will always be a minority and further out, an anomaly. When I am talking about Pluto in Capricorn and trends in the collective, I have a broad scope on this.
Tree, tree, tree, tree. When you look at the forest, I think it’s apparent that what I say has merit.
I know this topic provokes emotion but still feel a sense of responsibility to broach these topics. I work with women in trouble every day of my life and some of them are going to latch on to something they read here and suffer less because of this.
Knowing that, I sit down and write this stuff and I’d bet my last dollar that regardless of what people think of me today, the day will come when most of them will say, son of a bitch, that Elsa P was on to something.
I agree with that now adays most single moms do want the government to fill in and be the daddy figure. From the people I have known and what I see somewhere along the way there has been a shift in the way people handle life in general. Doesn’t matter if they are single parents mom or dad they don’t want to be the responsible party. They want the government to be or someone else they don’t care who that is just as long as it is not them. I have been a single mom on 2 different occasions. I was always held responsible for everything now that I have found a wonderful man to share my life who helped me finish raising my children and me his. We are now being held responsible for my father who is now 88 years old.
“[People] don’t seem to realize if they give over their rights to parent to the government, the government can start teaching something they don’t like.”
I’m well aware of that. The guvmint’s been teaching at least one thing I don’t like my entire life. *grins*
It didn’t occur to me while I was reading the thread, but I think you’re onto something now, forget about the future epiphany. 
On that note, SaDiablo, the people who approve of what the gov’t would teach TODAY discount all the people who don’t approve of what the gov’t would teach today and are almost guaranteed to wind up on the other side of the equation eventually.
Uh oh.
Little Feat song:
On Your Way Down
– Alan Toussaint
Sunrise
Sunset
Since the beginning it hasn’t changed yet
People fly high begin to lose sight
You can’t see very clearly when you’re in flight
It’s high time that you found
The same people you misuse on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down
Vintage wines from the year ’62
It’s your thing, it’s your thing
It pleases you
You got to frown when you cross town
You think it’s an honor just to have you around
It’s high time that you found
The same dudes you misuse on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down
You think the sun rises and sets for you
But the same sun rises, sets and shines
On the poor folks too
I don’t mind you turning round
I myself would even like a little higher ground
It’s high time that you found
The same people you walk on on your way up
You might meet up
On your way down
On your way down
Here is good cover of the song On Your Way Down
I was a single mother in the 80s and 90s and my kids turned out wonderful. I worked damned hard on raising them taking very little time for myself-my kids knew my rules (AS A MOM )and they did not try to find guidance elsewhere. Some two parent homes ( like the one i came from) are super *%^$#ed up so dysfunctional is dysfunctional in any form it takes.
I’m a single mom, and so very fortunately for my daughter (and me), her dad still has my back. We’ve managed to present that united front for the seven years we’ve been divorced, though we live ten blocks apart and have her on alternating weeks. If we didn’t have him, there would be a significant void that would need to be filled by something somewhere.
I know I couldn’t do it all… Maybe I could attempt and be kinda sorta successful at raising her 100% solo, but it sure does help to have a male step up to what is his role. Sure, there have been significant differences of opinion along the way, but ultimately he agrees that her well-being has to come first, so we do arrive at agreement.
Most single moms are not nearly this lucky, and I don’t know how they do it. Government has to step into this co-parenting role – Elsa is right – and it is a poor substitute for a flesh-and-blood human who has a vested interest in the kid’s well-being. Not to mention LOVE.
I’m also not saying kids need a two-parent household – lord knows our kid wouldn’t be nearly as well-adjusted growing up in a house where her parents are pissed off at each other all the time. I’m just saying that the male element need not (and should not) be completely absent.
Such good points from everyone, Elsa you’re quite right re 4 sons etc – I was fortunate that my Taurus/Scorp daughter was pretty easy to raise alone, though in fact I know that she sometimes felt too much responsibility herself in that situation, as did I in my own dysfunctional family which is equally awful. While fathers are allowed (encouraged?) to produce children without responsibility the whole thing spirals out of control and unless we change something soon could eventually lead to complete government /corporate control. Does there have to be a future scenario whereby women and children will die unless fathers take back their function before this is resolved? We have done a fantastic job as unsupported women for so long but think what we could achieve as a people with the willing support of fathers. On the other hand, nothing has really changed – go and look at traditional indigenous societies anywhere on Earth – the ‘system’, inevitably male, makes and enforces the law while women raise the children and produce food. Usually an Alpha female backs up discipline and adult responsibilities are taken on by both sexes at an early age. Love this thread Elsa; we really need to wake up and decide what we think about this right now as you so wisely say.
I have known many single parents and none who do this, but it seems likely that if there’s a subset of the collective that uses/abuses the government as a surrogate employer, then it’s equally likely that a subset uses/abuses it as a surrogate father. Education and limitation are among the solutions, I would venture, neither of which are very strongly in place at the moment. Obama hired 400,000 government workers when he went into office. Maybe those are the baby-daddys.
*new* government workers, 400,000 more than the previous administration had..
tinaroma, it would be helpful if you provided your source of statistics. I do know that at least 225,000 federal employees are temporary census workers who are losing their jobs this month. If your number includes these workers, it is really a dishonest statistic. The census is required every ten years under the constitution. Under the current economic situation, I would rather see 400,000 employed by anyone rather than getting unemployment. Our national infrastructure is getting dangerously unsafe.
The bridge collapse in Minnesota is a result of this failure to take care of the basics in our nation. In one of our national treasures, Dinosaur National Park the building built around the dinosaur quarry was closed several years ago, because Congress did not pay for the necessary repairs. Of course the same Congress got an automatic pay raise last year.
I would be happy to see newly hired inspectors inspecting the crap being shipped here from China. Should we really be afraid to buy our children toys?
Also, the deregulation and lack of inspector under 8 years of Bush has really hurt the health and safety of our nation. A prime example is the oil killing the Gulf of Mexico. Personally, I think the entire Department of Interior needs a major purge and rehiring of competent hard working inspectors.
Seriously, you want the government to have competent inspectors in the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to inspect our nuke plants. Or do you want them to self regulate as our government allowed BP in the Gulf?
@flip, I just saw your comment. I heard the figure I mentioned on NPR yesterday (Friday) morning.
p.s The number wasn’t qualified but stated as I stated it. I agree, if census workers were taken into account, the number is distorted. It was presented as though these were newly created, “permanent” positions. NPR is not anti-Obama. And neither am I.
Hooray! Perhaps we’ll see more of this i.e. reality surfacing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/health/13mind.html
Great article, Elsa.
Darn, I could not open the article.
Kinda rushed but read this and YES Elsa, the covering all the bases alone and some kids being harder than others and the single mother being blamed…concur 1000%!
People can be so judgmental and horrible and above it all when we are not all working with the same resources.
Okay this essay of yours makes me so angry that I am nearly ballistic here. I’ve been pretty irritated the last few days in general about everything, but this one really got to me.
What’s your suggestion?
Does it run along Newt Gingrich’s lines of round up all the illegitimate children or just ALL children from single MOTHERS and put them in a orphanage?
Has it occurred to you, of course it has, that the ed in school you speak of occurs in both single and dual parent families? It’s an old book but perhaps reading the Tyranny of Kindness might clue you in on some stuff.
As someone who works in a school system, it’s may be easier to deal with the hands off parents, as exhausting as it is, than dealing with the neurotic mommies from the suburbs who want to go in and micro mange the kid’s class because it isn’t going the way they want it, but they aren’t willing to shell out the bucks fr private school. (oh yeah, I’ve seen that too.) BTW my kids who are in high school go to the top 20 public schools in the nation according to Newsweek. I raised them as a single parent, on food stamps, on Sec 8 housing because my income is s small and Dad of course did not pay child support in a timely manner.
Flip – yes, you are so very right about massive systemic collapse. Other IMPORTANT agencies that have been gutted (I feel like I shouldn’t have to point out by whom but for any Ichabod Cranes out there – the Bush adm) are OSHA and FEMA. If a widescale natural disaster should come this country’s way – guess what, folks, there won’t be any emergency response to speak of. And total neglect of workplace safety (b/c guess what was not in place leading up to the Gulf oil mega-disaster? Yup, safety regs) is widespread. Not good any way you cut it. (Sorry to go off-topic but I had to say it!)
Deney, something has been lost in translation here. I don’t relate to the gov’t rounding up kids (exactly the opposite) and I sure as hell don’t think kids should be micro-managed. I am sorry you’re pissed.
Someone sent me this:
“..when reading the thread about the government raising children and the person who posted about Newt, it occurred to me that the person who posted about Newt could not READ your posts! How they got that idea from your post is beyond me except that they have their own stuff and put it off on you. It really was a fire post though and you have single parents all over your blog. It might suit to post again on the subject from the same point of view but in a different way to get your point across. The people were taking it that you were saying they were inept in some way when it came to single parenting when you were actually warning people that the government is trying to get in there and put ideas in our kids heads. This would fire up a person and cause them to defend themselves and their parenting skills, no matter how bad they are.
But Newt? No, that didn’t make a bit of sense to me.
You never made a statement that even sounded close to what that poster was referring to.
Gawd.”
Is this person right? Am I being misunderstood?
Am I being misunderstood?
I think so, yes.
Oh I didn’t think it was incomprehensible, just that the person who went in the Newt Gingrich direction misunderstood completely.
Sorry I was unclear. (Neptooon!)
Oh. Ha ha. 
Neptune is opposing Mercury… so God help us, Shannon.
That is Neptune joke – please no “holy roller” accusations, LOL.
I can’t keep up with my hologram. It just runs around pissing off the masses while I sleep!
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Oh I see it. And it’s gonna blow up hard, I think.