Saturn Opposite Uranus + Pluto – The Polarization Of Society Exists In Each Individual
Astrology in real life
Beth writes on Alarming Lack Of Compassion… Endless Generosity:
“I’ve noticed this. Sort of an “if you aren’t on my approved list, you can get run over for all I care.”
I responded:
Agreed. And everyone goes in *someones” kill pile. Even the people who say they don’t have a kill pile. Ask a few pointed questions and they start spewing too.
It seems to me the split in the collective exists in each individual. People have a line inside and you fall on one side of it or the other.
“Fat people should not be discriminated against… unless they are reeeeeally fat.
“Everyone is entitled to compassion… unless they voted against what I want in which case to hell with them.”
Everyone should have what they need… which is what? Food? Shelter? Cable TV? Access to the Internet? A new wardrobe? Eventually you come to a cut off.
Two people can argue endlessly about where that cut off should be never mind a larger group trying to draw the lines but what strikes me is that people are polarized internally and I am not sure they realize it.
You just can’t say yes to everything or no to everything so you say one thing or the other and project the part that makes you uncomfortable?
This makes for a really jacked up situation, have you noticed? People who are coming are going and vice versa.
On top of that, they are fixing to kill each other over it so I think this is pretty serious. You?
50 Responses to “Saturn Opposite Uranus + Pluto – The Polarization Of Society Exists In Each Individual”
I so agree…and I have a lot of friends that no longer see me except through the filter of what’s acceptable, so they no longer see me. They couldn’t bear to see that my paradigm has shifted because if they did, they would have to kill me. THey still like the idea of me and don’t want to kill me, so they just pretend I don’t believe those things. That’s on a personal level, so I can’t imagine if the collective had to see the other side as human….what chaos that would be?
satori, I agree and it makes me want to risk bringing Pluto into this, LOL. Even more so, I mean.
I just flashed on Hitler’s secretary. I wonder what would have happened to her if she’d have allowed the goings on to come to her consciousness and then spoken up…
I’ve got to learn not to take this stuff personally. If I have a heart attack every time I see myself or someone else denegrated, mocked, etc I won’t survive very long, ha!
People will always be oppositional to one another/ mistrustful of the motives of someone from a different culture/ different sex/ different soft-drink preference, whatever. When I hear certain radio talk-personalities, or just general comments from the public, I wonder why people aren’t actually taking baseball bats and killing each other already over silly, petty stuff.
I’ve also got to keep from taking it in and becoming a bully myself, acting out on the fury I feel. I think that’s the lesson I’m learning with this Capricorn Pluto squaring all my Libra stuff.
I notice that I have the biggest difficulty offering compassion, not to total strangers, but to people who have disappointed me. People who are closest to me.
Lately, I’ve tried really hard to turn this around and examine my expectations of my loved ones. While I have become more forgiving of distant friends and acquaintances, I have felt a brutal discord with people I truly care about. So, I ask: Why can’t I cut them some slack? It’s been really hard for me to do that. And I realize, it’s because I’VE done a really shitty job of letting people into my life. When I finally get past my frustrations with them, I see where I failed to reach out, and not the other way around…
What about gay bashing? What about the homeless we everyday? But then what about the out pouring of help seen in Haiti? We don’t know these people. But the world has seen suffering and has responded. Or is this a case of “this is what I feel compassion for and if you don’t screw you?” I myself, have given necessary items to the homeless around where I work, only to feel it was like feeding a bottemless pit. Either there was another one and another one etc. or the ones I tried to focus on were not in a position to be saved. They were on their way to deaths door or so delusional that no matter what you did, their items were stolen or they did not remember me or the items I gave them. How does one progress here and grow to care more?
i know i have lines, and am judgmental about certain things. certain behaviors don’t sit will with me and i absolutely think less of those who participate in them. now i don’t actively wish ill upon those on the other side of my lines, but i don’t waste much energy worrying about their well-being, either.
some of it’s me projecting my own shadow i’m sure, but i’ll be damned if i know how to tell what’s what. i am never gonna be a rainbow–flowers-sunshine-you-must-love-everybody-equally chick. i consider it a responsibility to utilize my own energy and compassion in a discriminating way.
judgment & criticism are 2 totally different & separate things to me so I think I might be an anomaly & don’t even know what page I’m on in respect to everyone’s comments.
Can’t get around duality yeah but there is always the seed of one in the other. 
☯
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Yin_yang.svg
Yeah, I’m far from the flowers-and-unicorns-language kinda girl. But I do believe that we’re all in this together. I know that we’re not all operating in “together” mode, but that’s OK.
I’m an existentialist–guilty as charged.
I agree with opal’s comment that we contain it all inside us. The good, the bad, the evil. I’m sorry if you are human you are part of humanity and humanity rapes and kills and maims; as well as feeds and waters and loves and cares for. Exactly what Jilly said—-duality. It’s not an easy concept at all because of it’s implications of guilt–and what I mean by guilt is of the legal kind–guilty as charged.
I think you have Pluto in your 12th house opal?? I tried to eradicate this concept from my mind during my 12th/Pluto transit but was unable to. It just.kept.popping.up. I had to accept this was my belief and it caused me a lot of pain internally to do so.
I feel like it’s very easy in my society to say “tsk tsk I’d never do that, that’s evil”. I’m sure that people all over the world who live in conflict or dying of hunger or whatever would love to have the luxury to say the same.
“I don’t feel sorry for American whores,” my husband said.
“Because they have a choice?”
“Yeah.”
“But you feel sorry for whores in other countries? You think they have no choice?”
“I know they have no choice.”
For anyone not familiar with existentialism:
“The existentialists conclude that human choice is subjective, because individuals finally must make their own choices without help from such external standards as laws, ethical rules, or traditions. Because individuals make their own choices, they are free; but because they freely choose, they are completely responsible for their choices. The existentialists emphasize that freedom is necessarily accompanied by responsibility. Furthermore, since individuals are forced to choose for themselves, they have their freedom — and therefore their responsibility — thrust upon them. They are “condemned to be free.”
For existentialism, responsibility is the dark side of freedom. When individuals realize that they are completely responsible for their decisions, actions, and beliefs, they are overcome by anxiety. They try to escape from this anxiety by ignoring or denying their freedom and their responsibility. But because this amounts to ignoring or denying their actual situation, they succeed only in deceiving themselves. The existentialists criticize this flight from freedom and responsibility into self-deception. They insist that individuals must accept full responsibility for their behavior, no matter how difficult. If an individual is to live meaningfully and authentically, he or she must become fully aware of the true character of the human situation and bravely accept it.”
Ivan Soll, Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy, University of Wisconsin, Madison
Thanks for this discussion, Elsa. I’m interested in many things but this is pretty much top of pile.
I wanted to say as well that I agree with you, that it is internal within the individual.
Hi Chrispito, yes I do have Pluto in the 12th. I was thinking about what Elsa put up there in the comments about adding Pluto in, and I thought, yes, it’s Pluto that takes you to those places and makes you face this…..condition that we all live in.
I think it’s the refusal to face it that causes the polarity and its resulting violence. And we are just seeing the tip of it in the world at the moment. What’s going to happen when Uranus gets in on the act I dread to think.
Point being, if you have the courage to face what Pluto shows you, that the shadow lives in you too, you also have Neptune to guide you into the transcendence of it.
Can you imagine the world we could be living in if each person accepted the responsibility of doing this work on themselves?
Chrispito, I like it! Have read much Camus and Kafka. But this helps me to better understand the concepts.
Saturn – accepting responsibility
Pluto – the shadow
Saturn also represents a boundary and some have to defend against the shadow cast upon them.
“you also have Neptune to guide you into the transcendence of it”
oh opal! such a good reminder.
elsa, do you think people with saturn/neptune face that challenge more than others?
(is it a neptunian challenge or saturnian challenge)?
chrispito, no. I think Scorpio and the 8th house carries the shadow. The 8th house, maybe even more so than Scorpio – I’d have to think about it but I can tell you first hand, if your shit is in the 8th house, you are in the shit – PERIOD.
thanks. i read your comment and wondered to myself how often i have had to defend the shadow cast upon me–my first instinct was “not very often at all”
I don’t have scorpio. i do have saturn in my 8th and it aspects every planet in my chart. this is good food for thought. i have very particular ideas about parenthood, and i have personal allies whose parents were soundly within the shadow. I have definitely felt in the shit with this–right in the middle of it, but without sharing the personal experiences.
it’s been an ongoing thing since the time of my first Saturn square.
sorry i’m trying to keep on track, but zooooom
‘Saturn also represents a boundary and some have to defend against the shadow cast upon them.’
It’s a very fine line, isn’t it. I’ve been thinking about this whole area for a while now, having had someone cast a dangerously heavy shadow on me recently. And what I came to today was that perhaps it happened (and it’s not the first time in my life) precisely because I don’t recognise or accept that thing in myself. So it sits there, radiating power because it never gets used, attracting more of itself to itself.
And I did wonder if just that recognition could rob it of its power and release me from this pattern. Or at least give me an understanding of how to use it in a way that benefits me and neutralises its power to attract this chaos.
Saturn again, defining the limits of a things usage, in order to be in control, rather than controlled.
Just rambling…
I wonder, all the time…what IS compassion? what the hell IS it? how do i be really compassionate?
my version of compassion involves accepting complicity in horrid acts. even when they are physically and emotionally very far from mer. i feel very much part of the shadow, maybe that’s the solidity and steadfastness of saturn in the 8th. maybe because i feel a part of it, i don’t feel that defense of it put on me? ::lightbulb::
i think my other comment disappeared
“I did wonder if just that recognition could rob it of its power and release me from this pattern”
opal this is the reason why i claim responsibility…the release part especially. i like your rambling:)
Aw chrispy…:)
Oh yes, just remembered the point I was trying to make.
In the realisation comes the release, which fact itself creates a natural unassailable boundary by the fact that the shadow is seen, understood and consciously integrated.
Otherwise the boundary is only a defence against something not understood so can never be a true boundary.
toooooootally true, one needs to understand what they are defending against.
my comment that went *poof* ..was about my Saturn, which is in my 8th house. A strong theme in my life (emerged during my 1st Saturn square, when I was 8 years old) has been to bear witness. To not look away. I think that’s why my initial reaction was a feeling that I haven’t had to defend against this?
With Saturn in the 8th, I do feel deeply entrenched in the mire. Kind of like a tree on the battlefield.
Not holding a gun, but part of the landscape.
I wonder if I’m supposed to shut up now and that’s why my comments keep disappearing, lol
chrispito- I am an existentialist…except when I’m not.
ha ha, me too!
sometimes it makes me very very weary.
soooooooo weary teary. i’m telling you, i tried to ditch this theory but it refused. when i feel very weary i read ghandi. he always makes me feel better:)
Well as they used to say on Monty Python, ‘My brain hurts.’ I’ve been there. Hope your brain is not hurting!
today my brain is good! except my lover just came back from the beach and saw a dead body:(
i think the man had a heart attack. not sinister.
Pardon me while I make an attempt to add to the brilliant discourse on this subject. Elsa is a provocative thinker, and her blog attracts the same !
I feel that attempting to wrestle such an issue with one’s wits alone, however; is an act of futility that can overwhelm the most stoic of souls.
At the risk of sounding like a sap, I will add what I feel is creating polarities to begin with.
Nearly everyone holds a notion as pure fact that each of us is separate from each other, from Nature, from Spirit — and some are even aware of a split from their true self. This in an illusion, a lie that even consensus opinion cannot make true.
Compassion is pure love and acceptance. Who are we to judge anyone or their circumstances ? If I see something that rattles me, I find that if I meditate on what is beyond and behind it; the only answer that is mine to know is to love unconditionally. We have no idea what anyone’s karma is, so how can we judge them ?
I do feel responsible for my own salvation, but while that means freedom; I joyfully embrace that responsibility. The only shadows I encounter are the limitations I place upon myself, and my capacity to love; so transcending this is my job. It is my hope that humanity will become civilised enough to forego its violent tendencies — which is the sickness that exists because the lie of separation persists. I pray every day for our healing, for humans to choose happiness instead of persuing it; or just seeing how whack everything is. I hope this does’nt annoy anyone.
12th house Sun in Leo, 8th house Jupiter in Aries, 3rd house Neptune in Scorpio.
Namaste
oh man, i lost a comment again
i try to hold compassion for everyone. and for the most part, i manage. though i can be pretty darn judgemental, too…. it takes practice and effort to carry both.
also, i think it’s easier to feel compassion for people with problems you understand. stretching the perspective past that… requires a conscious willingness to do so. and i’m not sure how many people recognize the value in that, in any deep way.
i learned, throughout the saturn/neptune opposition, how dangerous it was to let compassion overflow boundaries. went too far in that direction sometimes. there are people who will reach in as far as they can to wound. because they can. or perhaps some deeper reason. but boundaries are essential.
and while i’m willing to give, i’m more interested in giving in ways that will help people to help themselves. i have little enough energy to want to waste it giving it to someone who will suck it up for a sponge and then get mad at me for not feeding them fast enough, rather than using it as a springboard to become self sufficient. if they can. if not… to at least have enough personal dignity or self respect to attempt to contribute in some fashion, however they are able. overall, i think people who take without giving are a waste of my energy. and sometimes the most compassionate thing is to cut them off so they have a reason to start doing for themselves. i’ve seen that work miracles.
i’ve also seen, recently, how perceiving from a place of woundedness drove me to build up a shadow projection onto someone else… more than they deserve. still trying to pick that apart and figure out a more authentic equilibrium.
i have a lot of eighth house. and i don’t feel it. seems natural to me. i’m not sure what gets projected in my direction. i know a lot does but it’s hard for me to see or feel it. it just confuses me. and for the most part i just do what i would do. and shrug off projections. the way i am feels natural…
i think maybe my midheaven peregrine jupiter also saves my arse more than i notice. floating up above my head like an anchor buoy…
(that seems even more disjointed than normal….)
I am highly compassionate person . But my limits stop, when the person actually had a choice not to, but still he decided to walk in the shadow(including killing,abuse,rape,children abuse..). There is no way I would justify these things.
We are all responsible to give our life meaning with sincerity in spite of external(and internal) obstacles. And here comes the importance of personal choice.
Lot’s of good responses here. My comment was that even though we see ourselves as non-judgmental and accepting, it is difficult for us to stop labeling things, situations, people, the weather etc. The unconscious duality. good/bad, tall/short, like/dislike, dark/light, attractive/repulsive etc.
If you see a dead body on the beach, our brains are not programmed to think, good, happy, etc.
I like this thread. =D
Judging definately has a place, as without judgements there couldn’t be any logical thinking.
And I’m afraid I’m a rather rainbows-and-unicorns type.
ReikiHeart, I especially liked what you had to say about separation. I know the ideas I have, the things I use, the food I eat all come from others. In a sense I am made of other people. Yes, my consciousness is seperate and I have to make my own decisions, but I know deep below we are connected. Which has nothing to do with the original topic, but there you go…
orlando, yes.
and. also. it’s important to use our faculties of judgement. we may be wrong sometimes, and keep that in mind, but when something’s a threat to survival, it usually needs to be dealt with quickly and decisively. i can feel compassion all i want for the guy coming at me with a knife… after i’ve removed the threat (assuming, of course, i can.)
and i probably would feel compassion for anyone i had to hurt, no matter how justified i felt about doing so. luckily i haven’t had to make that specific choice.
i think maybe the issue is, more, when we apply judgement to more subtle things without keeping in mind that our knowledge is always limited.
wyrdling- I appreciate your comment. The universe is vast. There are a lot of things that I may never grok.
i think we’d have to BE the universe to grok it. and maybe not then… 
So can you be compassionate to a pedophile? Or the chick that wrongly accused someone of rape?
I wonder what the limits (Saturn) of compassion are. Can we be compassionate to someone even when we are justly condemning them to death (or jail or things like that)? Does someone have to deserve compassion? Is Pluto compassionate when it is breaking something down or labeling something as unjust? Pluto is all or nothing, right? Love or hate. I feel like we’ve talked about justice on this blog and the limits of universal compassion. I’m not a Libra, but some bullshit detector goes of in me with this that makes me think that we argued a different point earlier.
Does compassion mean understanding someone’s motives? Or conceding that we cannot understand them?
Dina, great question. I think it’s possible to feel compassion for just about anyone. But—some people can’t be touched by my compassion, and that’s a sure sign to hold fast to my kill pile.
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I think this ties up very much with the recent post about floating in the cesspool.
We are all human beings, walking on the same planet, breathing the same air, all mixed up together. And I really believe that because of this, everything that happens, and everything that is thought, has access to us. So in a way, we contain it all inside us.
But we have an identity which we have created for ourselves, or had thrust upon us, which does not allow for this. We think we are a certain way and only allow out of us, that which we think matches that identity. And then, as you say, we project the rest.
And honestly, I think that until people start to recognise these things that live in us all, and accept the fact of it without judgement, nothing is going to change. You don’t have to identify with any of this stuff, just know that it exists and decide what you will say yes to , and what you will say no to.
And then there doesn’t need to be any judgement when you meet something you don’t want in another person. More a ‘there but for the grace of God go I’ attitude.
::sighs::