Under The Scorpio Moon: In Certain Circles, To Lack Decorum Is To Risk Your Life
Astrology in real life
I was talking to Annalisa earlier today, running through the litany of things going on in my life. I didn’t mention it, I was so busy mentioning other things but I was aware at the time that historically this is exactly how we interact. It’s not that Annalisa does not has problems but she tends to have ONE that is horrible where as I have several dozen going at once, any one of which would challenge a person.
In whatever case she used this phrase, “stand on decorum” and I don’t know if she realized she was speaking Saturn in Libra but it led me to tell her I get murderously pissed off at the lack of decorum.
“You may not feel this way,” I said, excusing her of her roots, “but I think it’s an Italian thing.” I excuse her of her roots because she is not anywhere near as enmeshed in her culture as I am. How could she be with her Moon conjunct Jupiter in Sagittarius? She’s a child of the world or some damned thing but anyway, I explained that bad manners and/or lack of respect was an open invitation to getting your ass kicked as far as I was concerned. She surprised me.
“I feel that way too,” she said.
Hmm.
I went on to bring up this scene from A Bronx Tale. Don’t watch it if you’re squeamish but if you do watch it you will see that Italians don’t take kindly to rudeness and I mean the whole neighborhood gets involved.
Since Annalisa relates to this and the soldier definitely relates to this reaction, it makes me think these feelings may be deeply rooted as opposed to something that could be chocked up to my natal Mars (fight) in Libra (manners).
I can tell you unequivocally, if you don’t know how to act or conduct yourself with basic decorum I really can’t stand to be around you and I could care less how you’re disposed of as long as I get to go back to living in peace. I’d say that it is my commitment to this standard that makes this blog so good to be on or in or around.
It seems instinctual to me to stake out some kind of territory for myself and defend it be it my home, my relationship, my business, my friends… etc.
Can you relate? Where do your feelings come from?
34 Responses to “Under The Scorpio Moon: In Certain Circles, To Lack Decorum Is To Risk Your Life”
Whew! I was beginning to worry I was the only one!
To me, it’s a no brainer. You come looking for trouble, you get it so what’s all the crying about?
I also like the idea there are people out there and when you run into them, your gig is up. These people work for God too, ya know. Someone has to police the place.
::embarrassed laugh::
I agree!!! My Mars is also in Libra and this is a theme for me. I was in Costco a couple weeks ago on a Sunday and all the lines were LONG and this “woman” was walking through and I guess peole weren’t moving out of her way quick enough and then she started calling this little old lady a effing shithead and then this ladies son told the rude woman that isn’t a nice way for a lady to speak and I spoke up and said if she “was” a lady,lol. I thought it was rude and uncalled for and these things really get my goat!!
Well I’ve been sitting here thinking about it for a while….because while at my core I’m all for justice Italian style, (which is pretty damn similar to Irish style when pushed)I find myself living in a country amongst people who just don’t get it. And so after having been pilloried for being ‘possessive’, ‘over-emotional’ etc, etc, I’ve learned to bury these feelings deep down.
But when someone oversteps the mark in a big way I get so mad, I just think it’s the most appalling invasion of space. And if people get away with it, they keep doing it more and more. Seems to me only natural that each person has the right to their own space, the right to define the boundaries of their own territory physical, psychic, whatever, as they see fit.
So, I guess it’s got a lot to do with Cap Sun in the 4th house, trine Libra ascendant. Moon in Scorpio square Saturn maybe?
respect, sure, but some people have rules about manners that no one ever thought to mention to me, and so i never learned, and then they try to steamroll me for not following their rules…
wyrdling, I am talking about BASIC decorum and you don’t have to have any unless you want to come to my house. It’s not like I am going to show up at yours and tell you what to do. But if you come to my house, sit at my table and fling shit at me or my family or other guests, obviously you are going to have to be removed so the normal people can enjoy their dinner.
You are definitely not alone…thankfully, I’ve never had to deal with that much on a personal level…But, there are times, when in public, that I just HAVE TO call people out on the shit that they do. Rude people deserve what they get…(No Mars in Libra here, though…)
Yah, relate. Mars Libra, yet I had to throw someone off “my land” a few years back for being out of control, there ARE basic social etiquettes that MUST be abided by.
Yet there’s a part of me that thinks this is all outdated tribalism. OMG, I am reading Malcolm Galdwell’s book The Outliers, and there are studies done that show how our cultural heritage affects many many generations that followed, among several other eye poppers. Fascinating!
And by outdated, I mean that we, us old-timers, are being dragged into a new way of communicating, empathizing, and realizing that we are a global community now, with instant worldwide communication, Amazing. And that we are on the demise, the Reptilian age is coming to a close. And if we don’t start working together, we are toast. The younger, the young and the youngest I believe have more receptors about future potential than has ever been experienced before, at least in the Age of Pisces, an age of guilt, prophets, gurus, medieval ages of patriarchal oppression, prior to which 2100 or so years ago, the earth had very maternal, nurturing civilizations.
Some of these ideas come from a long term wonderful astrologer that I heard interviewed the other day, Erin Sullivan and from Jeremy Rifkin, who wrote the Empathic Civilization that cites many studies that shows how humans are innately and basically wired to be social and kind. And how the younger generation is dialed in, with open sharing, free platforms, and able to communicate within minutes to millions of people around the world to have empathy and outrage for some Korean student that had been beaten and was caught on video.
I think we are in the middle of a huge transition, which is why things are so crazy. But to quote others, old gods (ideas, ideologies, politics, and territorialism) dies hard, so everything is so intensified and polarized both in national and in world politics right now. Dying hard…
Oh, ja. I can dig it.
I went nuclear on a friend of mine once because he immediately went and did something in my house that I had asked him not to do. People looked at me like I had three heads for that, but, dammit, if he was going to act like a three-year old with no sense, that’s how I was going to treat him.
Mars in Libra, conjunct Pluto. It’s MINE and I’ll defend it, even if it’s just my sense of harmony / balance.
Absolutely agree. And I would never go into someone else’s home or space or country and act in a disrespectful way, either. Do unto others…. Venus in Libra, 9th house.
This is also a big theme in my life. My Moon is in Libra, not Mars, but I’ve seen so much of this is hubs’ extended family, it’s mind boggling.
One time, when my son was just over a year old, the whole family brought their kids over for Easter egg dyeing. One of the asshole SILs I’ve mentioned before got the message about what time it was, etc., but decided to show up late. Then she tried to start a fight with my MIL, claiming that “her kids were always left out of everything.”
As you can imagine, this turned into a monstrous scream-a-thon. I took my son outside to play, because I was pregnant with my older daughter, and I didn’t want to put any stress on the baby.
It’s been nearly a decade since this happened, but its effects haven’t gone away. Who the hell was this bitch, coming in and ruining something that was meant or the kids? Why couldn’t she keep her fucking issues to herself for one fucking day so the kids could enjoy themselves?
I’m known to provoke people, what with the Leo Sun/Mars and Aries rising, but one thing I will NOT do is cause scenes. All my Libra planets cringe at the thought.
Oddly enough, the jerk who caused that scene has Mars in Libra! But it’s part of a t square with Jupiter in Aries and the Moon in Cancer. I’ve been told that the woman was never taught to control herself or act decently. No shit. 
Just to be clear, I see the stuff that happens on this blog now and then to be shit-throwing at the dinner table. People come on and attack me or someone else on the blog and I don’t know what the hell they are thinking that I am not going to toss them out the door.
We can’t have a site like this with people like that. There are good people here – lots of them – and they will not hang around a place where chaos reigns.
Yes, this is a good movie-Don’t mess with the Italian crew-
hi,i love this post elsa.(Im just new to astrology so humour me pls:)…)it made me realise how my 2nd house mars saturn conjuction in leo often plays out in my relationships.
Im really bothered(mars)when people lack(saturn)pride(leo)in themselves.I just dont get it.I guess Its a values thing(2nd house right?)they must be dodgy.gotta like who you are even i like me.
Hate bad manners too though want to destroy them and make new manners.natal Pluto in libra:)
Oh Lord, this reminds me of one of my co-workers. The other day, we were bussing a large table with lots of used plates and she picked up someone’s old egg foo young, scraped her fingers across the dirty plate and put the used food in her mouth. In the restaurant where there were customers. Now,I’m sorry but that’s gross and inappropriate and not to mention rude to do that in front of people eating at a restaurant. I told her “Don’t you ever do that in front of me again.” which is pretty out-of-character for me.
I’m still trying to figure out how she has gone through her life working at places doing that and no one has stopped her?
Yeah, sure do. It’s definitely saturn in libra-ish.
“I also like the idea there are people out there and when you run into them, your gig is up. These people work for God too, ya know. Someone has to police the place.” Me too!
“Play nice or don’t play at all.” How many times did we hear this when we were kids, and ‘net trolls think it doesn’t apply to them? Think again.
The SIL thinks the same. She thinks she can come in and say, so, think whatever she wants and people will just put up with her, which led to my posting the example above. Where the hell do people get off thinking like that? Take your drama to your mama and leave the rest of us in peace (Libra).
Well, even if it happened to me to pass rondom on your interesting website I could not stay silent after a post like this. By the way I can understand if you will not approve this comment for I know the blog linked deals with controversial problems…
The motorbike people made a big big mistake for Sonny “allowed” them to be there. Again, it is the difference between the typical Italian way of thinking and the American, Sonny behaved as an Italian. Any Italian, even the most imbecil, would have understood the “master” of the local had “allowed” them to stay there. They **had** to behave like good boys, thanking after having drunk, and never, I rpeat never, be there once agin in their life. This is immediately perceivable by an Italian, especially of the South. They behaved without respect while Sonny made them a “favour” and a favour has always to be repaid, not necessarily by money, as American think, but by **behaviour**, a “respectful” behaviour… Nothing would have happened… I could say much much more in adventures in locals in some parts of Palermo, Naples and other “dangerous” places…
To behave right is **all** in certain places, Miss/Mrs. “P” has absolutely right. Of course, being mafioso people you can risk life and it is not said for joke!
Well, I saw that film, it depicts the “mafioso” of Ye Olde, criminals, true, but with an ethics, in Italy it is no more so from sometimes…
I remember when I was a boy and had to go to Rooome, enormous journey in that age, by train, alone… It was the first time i made the journey on train alone, I was a boy, mama and papa very very concerned and doubtful if I could do it – you can only laugh in comparison of the world of today! – they accompanied me to the train wagon. I entered in it. I had to leave, they were very concerned and still unsure to have done the right thing. You always perceive the “mafioso” kind of man, very Scorpio in some way, there ws one in the place of the wagon i had to stay. He would have been in front of me for the whole journey. The mafioso kind of man, a Sicilian, came out from the wagon and said to my parents: “No pobbolemmo, da bboy isse sure!” and I was sure, for the whole journey. Nothing on Earth could have touched me, really. I relaxed for the journey but the man kept silence. He only laughed when I asked him if he were a mafioso: “If I were I did not tell you, boy” he answered… Mama and papa felt sure…
This is mafia of old times. Today it is very, very different. Sonny, the character of “A Bronx Tale” is very very similar to that kind of people that many years ago it would have been easier to find: Sonny gave “C” very good advices…
This is the scene in Italian language: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ18d0hBh1o
Good lessons of Sonny, again in Italian language, just for the sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YPstskgsEg&feature=related
This is the same, even if uncomplete, in American English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAuSTQUa3tM&feature=related Entitled meaningfully: 20 Bucks
would you get this same attitude with pluto in libra square mars? Defensive of home and family? and friends and employees… which are the same as family to many of us..??
haha great vid!
when someone is rude ( to myself or another), i literally FEEL the heat ( mars conjunct moon in aries) .. (venus in libra)
Not to mention i always tend to put myself in others ‘ shoes.. almost as if i can feel their pain (neptune in 12th). So it definetely works on my nerves when i see it…
I will defend myself readily, but with decorum ( fairness, what you deserve, essentially ). I’m not one to throw fists anywhere… and especially if what i see is really petty they don’t even deserve a response. In other words, they can stew in their own self-created shit/karma for all i care.
elsa… i get your point… i’ve just known people who’ve taken that response really far. i guess it’s the libra form of control… but the basic concept of not throwing dirt in someone’s else’s house seems like the basic… keep yourself clean.
Amen. Seriously, get some manners or you will see a side of me that is absolutely hell bent on teaching you a damn lesson. Echoing back to my recent post (about my job) there was a nurse who I had a little tiff with the other day because instead of saying excuse me to get where she was trying to go, she very stupidly and bitchily said “Get out of my way.” I said “I’m sorry, I don’t know what that means, I don’t respond to that.” She said “Get out of my way.” I said “No, you can say excuse me or you can stand where you are. I’m not moving.” At this point, she proceeded to push up against me and reach over me to get sugar and cream for her coffee. Did I budge? Hell no. This Taurus Moon planted her foot firmly into the ground, got that poker face (Mars–Scorpio) going, and stood my ground. There were witnesses to this… They were all surprised. She said “Well I went to etiquette school.” I said “And you’ve made it clear you failed.” All the while, standing there.
Of course I didn’t tell manager #3 this, nor did I even mention it to director lady yesterday in our “meeting.” At this point, they can all kiss my ass. I put up with way more than I should have, because I’m not that kind of person to raise a scene or really react to one. But enough is enough. I can’t wait to talk to HR. Even if they’re all wearing a badge with the same logo, even if it won’t change anything, at least they’ll know my parting words. Ha, I just saw that Mercury-Mars opposition coming up. I’m going to shut it down, and detach. And when the conniving co worker tries to call me concerned (how convenient that she was off the day yesterday when I was basically dismissed without the official paperwork being filed with HR) about where I am, she will get the voicemail. Promptly.
And yeah, I’m pissed off. I’m mad as hell. But there is a way to express yourself, in any emotion without crossing the line of having proper manners. I can’t cross that. My 1st house Cap Venus won’t let me.
“She thinks she can come in and say, so, think whatever she wants and people will just put up with her, which led to my posting the example above. Where the hell do people get off thinking like that?”
Actually, I think like that. *smiles* In my little subjective world, as long as everyone is “nice” about it, you can say whatever you want, as can I. Just be respectful and reasonable and there’s no problem.
I think that’s why I frustrate so many people. I speak my mind most of the time without regard to whom I’m speaking. But I think everyone should! It would certainly reduce a lot of the resentment and petty squabbles that are actually covering a bigger issues that people don’t want to face. As long as no one’s being mean or rude, I don’t see how stating the facts clearly or explaining how you feel about something is awful.
The SIL ain’t respectful or reasonable. That’s the whole rub. Now I know all too well about shooting off my mouth, but the Libra Moon keeps my tongue in check.
If I’m having problems with someone, I’ll take them off to the side and talk it out. I’m not one for making scenes. But airing your grievances at a family when their grandkids are dyeing Easter eggs, when you KNOW everyone’s going to get upset, including little kids, isn’t kosher.
I forgot to mention this, which directly ties in with Elsa’s issue: I used to moderate a message board which I no longer belong to. I got a reputation for being a hard-ass, because I kicked out people who were bothering the other posters. OTOH, the good posters were happy that I created an environment like that for them, because it was safe and sane. I didn’t have any problems with debates, which some of the trolls tried to make into an issue. My only rule was play nice or you won’t be able to play at all.
I think the fact is the RULES have CHANGED (Saturn / Uranus).
Also some people have just not noticed the planets have left Sagittarius – it is no longer a climate where everything goes and frankly, I think it’s been long enough if you’ve not caught on by now, you are a true slow learner.
LOL @ “anything goes”…my Virgo squares Sag. Both signs just got pummeled by ol’ Pluto, so now that he’s moved on to Cap, the blowhards should have learned their lesson. If not, Pluto will bang then around some more. 
You have Moon Jupiter, too though right? How come you don’t view yourself as a citizen of the world? Does having Moon in aspect to Jupiter make you a citizen of the world or is it the fact that she has both in Sagittarius?
Dina, I see myself as an Italian woman in the world. I very much express my Jupiter Moon by working with women all around the world to their benefit.
I also publish (Jupiter) for women worldwide but I am in fact ITALIAN and very much consider a person’s roots and background when I interface with them.
oh, gosh, i should have watched the video (sometimes i don’t have the connection).
that really clears up what you were getting at.
yeah, a little basic civilized respect is essential.
of course, those guys were just daring someone to come along and stand up to them. i taught students like that. who’d push and push and push until they figured out where you’d draw the line. …seems like some subconscious drive to find the line. but after a point, i think they convince themselves there isn’t one. and maybe that’s accurate, based upon their experience. but they keep pushing to find one anyway.
not sure if this makes sense.
Lol. I love this post:-). Not only i relate as a libra with taurus moon, i’m also italian (living in italy). I wonder what’s the astrology about Italians living in the world and their proudness 
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Great movie, great scene. Love the juxtapositioning of the song and what’s going on here.
Yes, I can relate.