Saturn In Libra: Despair Over (Lack Of) Manners?
Astrology in real life
I have noticed a theme around me and the people around me, as well as just noting it at large and I want to bring it out so others out there suffering concerns can know they are not alone, by a shot. Saturn in Libra is causing many to feel insecure and inadequate about social things.
I just got a mail from one of the gals who reads here. She sent me a link to something and then thought it might have been offensive and represented thoughtlessness on her part. It was not thoughtless and I told her so but I want to go further by writing this because I see this happening all over the place. People are just scared to death they suck on the manners front.
As an example, recently I learned my old friend who I loved very much died some years ago. I inadvertently disturbed her family which I’d have never done this time of year had I known. I had a lot a hard to deal with feelings about this as there is a lot tragedy in that family who are very good and kind people across the board as far as I could tell. I just agonized over the idea that I’d brought up a painful subject at a poor time.
My fear was assuaged when they reassured me they were glad to hear from me but came back again like a wall when they all stopped contacting me abruptly.
I think I must have said the wrong thing but I don’t know this and if I did say something wrong, I surely didn’t mean it. I was trying to communicate with as much care and sensitivity as I could muster while still being authentic but it does seem I failed somewhere so I have that bad feeling now, I know some can relate.
As another example… well, I have not sent out Christmas cards for many years now. Since my daughter got sick.
I don’t send electronic cards because many people hate them so this is social custom (which was highly valued to me at one time) has fallen by the wayside although I always really like getting Christmas cards as I always mention this on the blog each year.
Anyway, this year I drug all the Christmas stuff in and there were some cards in there… they’d have to have been old but I decided I should try to send a few.
The reason is because this is the 2nd year my daughter has not been here for Christmas and I am trying to recover. I just want to get on whatever track there is, that is still available to me so I decided to address a few and send them out.
I have to say I did a lousy job. It was a lousy job in comparison to the love and feeling that used to go into my Christmas greetings years ago but I looked at it like this: You gotta start somewhere, Elsa. So I put the few cards together, you can hardly read the writing on them and then I went to the post office for appropriate stamps.
Once to the post office, I saw the line out the door and went by it to get stamps from the machine. Got to the machine and guess what? Out of service.
I looked at the 4 cards in my hand, 4 when I used to send 25 or 30 and just could not see waiting in line. Will these people forgive me, I asked.
I really had no idea what they would think but I went home and got some regular stamps (King and Queen of hearts, I had two of those – the other two went out with American flag stamps) and dropped them in mail knowing they were jacked but also knowing it was important to try to pick back up this ritual that meant so much to me at one time.
I am really sorry if you got one of my lousy Christmas cards. I am also really sorry if you didn’t. If I should have your address… well I probably don’t because to be precisely candid, if you sent me something in the last 3-5 years, I can tell you right now it arrived at my house with me in a state of overwhelm and I just couldn’t cover the bases.
If things go right, by next year I should be further recovered and I will try to put together some nice cards and my point is two-fold.
First, if you are having concerns around your social appropriateness and possible failure, you are not alone. But secondly, part of “manners” is to cut the people you love some slack. In the middle there is the sweet spot, I suppose.
For the record, I did not send cards to anyone who I thought valued aesthetics. I mean to mail someone like that a card like the ones I sent out would have been more an insult then a greeting, at least I have that much sense. 
Have you experienced concern over your manners with Saturn in Libra?
29 Responses to “Saturn In Libra: Despair Over (Lack Of) Manners?”
I always cite Miss Manners as the ultimate arbiter of etiquette. Over the years I’ve read her column, I’ve noticed her using one basic theme over and over:
Etiquette is a set of social customs designed to make personal interactions smoother and more pleasant. There is only one thing worse than transgressing a rule of etiquette, and that is calling attention to someone else’s transgression to make them self-conscious and feel bad about it. Etiquette is not a weapon.
Exactly, Charles, that’s part of my challenge. Cuz really I want to say “Do you know how inconsiderate it is to stand in the middle of the goddamn door when ten people are trying to get off the bus?”
But what I say, very politely, is “excuse me, please, this is my stop.” And a thank you when the person moves.
*grin*
I like Miss Manners too – she and Emily Post have long been in my reading lists.
In yet another example, I called a gal today. I have known her online for years and I mean I met her in 2000 before I started blogging and she has done me some very large favors over the years – A Capricorn.
In whatever case, we have never had a phone relationship although we’ve exchanged numbers several times. Here again – this is no kidding – I spent a solid 5 years in total crisis and I just never felt able to embark on something new… or to pull someone into my problems.
There is such a thing as just being in too big a mess to socialize this was my situation for a number of years and as I said, I am trying recover.
So anyway, we exchanged numbers AGAIN, this time I promised to call her that day (today), told her I’d keep trying if I didn’t reach her.
This represented my commitment to try to establish this other relationship – I followed through and called but she did not pick up.
I hung up and it hit me – this is Christmas! Wrong time to launch something / bother someone.
::shakes head::
Now I doubt she cares but you see the energy here. This concern comes up – basically, how could I be so thoughtless?
Well I don’t know how I can be so thoughtless especially when I am trying to be thoughtFUL. It really is a bitch.
Re: Charles and Shannon, I envy people like you who have a lot of these things down like breathing. I am afraid I come from such a deficit I will never be able to cover it.
I just have to settle for being the quirky well-meaning friend who has no clue for those that will have me.
well geez. the kind of things you’re talking about (like non-christmas stamps on a christmas card or what) i would do and think No-Thing of. at all. in fact, if somebody got worked up over something like that, i would probably think they are an ass. so i am guessing in that regard, i must have less sense than you, elsa. perhaps that is of comfort.
‘course then again – if someone offends very easily, i am not the best choice of friends and it’s doing us both a favor if the interaction dies quickly
I’m always tempering my manners ( Libra Venus ) while still retaining my desire to be painfully honest on all accounts ( my moon & mars conjunction in aries nearly forces me to do this. ) Of course, there are times when i slip up, but I try to at least take responsibility for those times. With my mercury-pluto conj in scorpio, and moon-mars conjunction in aries… truth is almost always more important than “making someone feel better”
‘But secondly, part of “manners” is to cut the people you love some slack.’
This is the most important bit – the human bit. Knowing what a person needs, what they can handle or can’t handle, and what you can do or not do in support. Sometimes the best manners is knowing when to back off and leave someone be.
The rest, the ‘etiquette’ is just icing on the cake. In my opinion.
With my Moon in Libra I am always concerned about “doing the right thing or saying the right thing”….I hate feeling that I may have hurt someone’s feelings or had been rude without meaning to.
As far as Christmas cards go…I am the say way. I used to do so much more than I do these days and the people I do want to do for are of the upmost priority. I no longer want to cater to those that “I used to feel that I had to do something for”. So, with that feeling, I am extremely grateful and pleased when I receive from others because I think to myself, they put the time and effort into this for me….I must mean something to them. It is not about the packaging or the item itself….but the thought? That goes straight to my heart….like an arrow.
Cards are something that have always meant a great deal to me…to receive a card to me is better than receiving a present…because to me it represents the initial thought….the first inkling of that other person on your mind and that to me is the whole point. I am disappointed when I get a present and there is no card with it…
Well, goddess, I have Mercury in Libra and don’t like sending ugly mail. 
I would forgive someone who sent me ugly mail but I would sure as hell notice and I am not the only one.
Leon’s wife once apologized for mailing me a letter with an ugly man on the stamp. She explained that she’d sent him to the post office and this is what had happened.
I do one or the other myself. If my 8th house is involved, I had the thing to you naked, either, me or it is naked I mean, but if Libra gets involved I do try to make things nice… like it is a christmas greeting and it should greet you not, assault!
I feel like I say or write the wrong thing constantly! There are so many ways to offend. By being too nice, by not being nice enough, wrong topic wrong timing, wrong approach! God save me! I got my leo mars/merc going on retrograde overdrive, and at least I am still saying things… I ‘ve got a virgo moon, so the worst is if I just feel that I can’t speak at all.. and when this happens I just feel damaged.
Part of my job is talking and I am just trying to let go of the fear of putting my foot in it and communicate with clients to the best of my ability.
Are there rules about what Christmas cards should look like? Do you cause someone else to feel badly if you don’t deliver a pretty product? Have you ever thought badly of someone else for a substandard card that they gave you?
No way!
Thanks, pippa, and welcome. I understand and know you are right but the whole point here is people are having concerns about being good enough when it comes to social things.
I mean, not everyone. Some people have this mastered and set the standard but for people like me… well this year represented one foot up a mountain I used to live on top of. It was a humble beginning I guess you could say.
I realize there are people who think this is no big deal but it is a big deal AT LARGE because many people are feeling this in whatever capacity and I just want them to have some company.
For example, some who traditionally give elaborate gifts may have had to cut back this year and may be having anxiety over that. The theme is the same. “Am I okay with my manners..?”
Another example..
HQ and the soldier’s son live in the same neighborhood. I don’t know how close, but not that far, it is NY.
HQ picked up a gift certificate somewhere local for us and of course he just had a baby.
He was going to pick it up before his wife when into labor but she went into labor the next day so… should he still do this? I think not but I don;t know, so I mail him. “Are you still going to do this?” Because I am going to punt, see?
He’s still going to do it so I feel a lot of guilt about sending him on an errand, his wife just had a baby. But HQ has friends, who knows? He could send someone else – really I don’t know how much trouble this is.
So he gets the GC even though the baby had jaundice and they had to go back to the hospital for a day and a half, his mother in law is in town, etc. He asks me (for the 2nd time) if he should mail it or hand deliver it.
Mail it, I said for the 2nd time. This seemed to be the least trouble, right?
Well then I tell the soldier – who is a man and he says maybe HQ wants to get out of the house. He may want to meet his son.
Crap.::shakes head:: He did ask twice about hand delivering. Maybe he does want to.
Am I using him like a courier? It is cool to show up on Christmas and hand deliver a gift, plus the soldier’s son knows of HQ, I write about him all the time.
I know they’d get along, they have similar interests, they would be a good contact for each other, HQ has taught at the university where the soldier’s son is working on his masters so…
I write HQ back and tell him that hand delivering is fine if he wants. I explain how social the soldier’s son is – which he knows, blah blah because I write HQ about the son as well… told him I did not want to impose (any further).
HQ said he just wanted to make sure it got there… ::rolls eyes::: forgot all about mail theft.
In whatever case, i don’t know if he mailed it, hand delivered it or what but you see the deal here.
A man just had a baby, am I crazy?
Honestly, I have no idea.
The baby has a mother, a grandmother and a nurse so is probably pretty covered but you know. I have not idea if he is going to walk 3 blocks or leap over lizards to do this, wtf?
I guess it is pretty obvious what a bitch I am, huh? ::rolls eyes:: I am over-rated on that front.
Thank you for the company.
See, I’d be completely unsure with the HQ situation, too, for pretty much all the same reasons you say so.
Thanks, Shannon. Thing is, HQ has survived so much of my rudeness, you’d not believe it. he’s got an edge himself though and he thinks I am fun to work with which I am.
Everyone needs a freak in their life and for some, I am her!
@Shannon.. ha, you remind me of my all-time favorite Miss Manners Q&A. Here it is, I remember it almost verbatim, it’s so short.
Q: What is the difference between “excuse me” and “pardon me?”
A: You use “excuse me” when you are about to inconvenience someone, you use “pardon me” when you have just inconvenienced someone.
I notice that Miss Manners sometimes allows ironic use of these phrases, like when someone knocks you down and you say “excuse ME.”
Charles, is it true that men are no longer expected to hold doors for women and people are to hold doors for people?
You know, I would probably not notice if someone sent me a Christmas card with a non-holiday stamp…but I sent one with a forever stamp this week, and felt a twinge as I dropped it in the mailbox.
Ha.
@Elsa
I always hold doors open for women and people, and I don’t see any general dropping of this custom. But that might just be a local thing here in Iowa, maybe it’s different in big cities. I recall this custom was about the same when I lived in LA, but that was a while ago.
My general philosophy is “the man with the heavier load has the right-of-way” so if I have free hands, I always open the doors for someone carrying packages etc and let them pass before me.
I have spent a lot of time studying manners, since I lived in Japan and subtle social customs mean everything. For example, if you are walking up a staircase at work and you see your boss descending towards you, you must back down the stairs to the landing, and let him pass.
maybe my ugly mail is why i have few friends.
LMAO.
i worry about offending people some ways – usually with my mouth as that’s the most likely candidate. so it’s not like i’m immune.
but i walk around oblivious to what the world sees in so many ways (neptune opp midheaven), if i tried to worry about all of it i would go insane. seriously insane.
(i’ve given many birthday gifts in christmas paper – and felt grateful i found any paper.)
People in the city I live could take some lessons from those in Iowa. I can’t tell you how many times I get on a full train, full seats, and a woman will be the only one to give up her seat for the pregnant lady/senior/person with load/etc.
goddess, being weird (Christmas for birthday) is your trademark, look at your hair.
I have also found Iowans inordinately polite. It is VERY notable.
Traveling around to meet the soldier in various states, I always, always remark on the manners there. It’s the first and the last thing you see and I have seen it every time I have ever gone there, without exception.
Here’s a weird thing. Why is it that men let women out of the elevator first? Or is that just my office building? Are guys consciously taught to do that, or is it sort of a viral social custom?
I can be in the very back, behind a couple layers of men, and they’ll STILL just stand there waiting for me to leave first. It’s a nice gesture, but sometimes sort of laughable when I have to struggle past them to get out at all, let alone first.
But I always say thank you.
BTW, I love to hold the door open for men.
Because 1) it’s a nice thing to do and 2) I really enjoy fucking with people.
Uranus in Libra in the 1st. If you can’t beat it, join it.
If a man holds the door for me, I thank him, and open the next one for him since I got to it first. Libra Venus, tee hee.
As far as manners, I generally feel I am balanced or maybe take on a little more of the burden, so to speak. No real skin off my nose, and it’s for me since I don’t want to feel uncomfortable.
Same thing with gifts and spending money– I’d rather do a little more if I’m not sure than to come in under.
Good manners means understanding that people are GENERALLY doing their best and it is just mean to think otherwise. It’s usually clear if people are being offensive or apathetic on purpose– in that case I think they can be cut out unceremoniously. I think it’s rare though, with people you have a relationship with.
But yes, I am also sickened by bad stamps and cards and gift wrapping and gifts that aren’t tasteful. I do not want that associated with me, ugh.
Ugly mail = guilty. The ONLY Christmas card I sent out this year was to my boss and yes it had ugly mis-matched stamps on it. I hadn’t even thought about it or about it being considered rude – and this is coming from a Libra!
I have had a hard time this year dealing with very difficult situations ‘appropriately’ and then crucifying myself afterward. After I am finished killing myself over it then I get angry. I get angry b/c I am in the situation in the first place, angry b/c I KNOW I shouldn’t beat myeself up, and angry b/c the situation is difficult for everyone involved and I feel I should be handling it better. Needless to say, its been an ‘angry’ year for me in a lot of ways. I still worry though about how the people I love/who are important to me ‘see’ me in the last year and how I’ve dealt with things. I know that I have probably damaged my budding relationship with my soon-to-be-inlaws, but it is what is it and all I can do is try to repair it now. I am probably being too harsh on myself now (as usual).
Wow this thread is so interesting. I love beautiful stamps but convenience trumps all. I get them where it’s easiest, often a pharamcy who usually don’t have great selection. Elsa, i hope the mail i’ve sent you wasn’t too ugly (usually just payment and a scrawled note!)
I have no personal planents in Libra and my Venus is t-squared…
As for manners, i don’t think about them… Hmmm. I may be an ass. Sometimes a moody ornery cancerian. But in public interaction with strangers, totally polite.
Normally with holiday cards… I guess I’m rude. To those in my family who send me ultra religious cards every year (I’m atheist) I tend to send their opposing religion or a great big Happy Holiday one. For everyone else I try to get a funny or cute card.
This year we couldn’t afford to send cards. I did send a e-card to those I had e-mail for. Just a cute funny one.
As for general manners I worry most of the time but in the end I have to remind myself that saying “you can’t please everyone so you’ve got to please yourself” or is that a song lyric? Anyway, everyone’s human. *shrugs* Politeness is great, but we all have moments where we fail.
Live, Love and move forward. I think you did great for your first try doing something you haven’t done in a while. I’m sure the people you did send the cards to appreciate the gesture and understand.
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Yes, some; I’m also getting really cranky about other people’s manners. My challenge is to not let their rudeness provoke me into rudeness.