“You’ll Never Make It…” People Who Define Others And Try To Caution Or Try To Dissuade Other People Away From Their Ambition
Ask the collective
“No one could believe I was going to join military. You’re not a military person they said. I don’t know why they said that. I always said I was going to be a musician or go in the military,” the soldier said.
“I’m surprised at that.”
“I was too. You’re not going in the military. You won’t even make it through boot camp.”
I smiled.
“Yeah, they said that. Everyone said that and I just couldn’t figure it out. Why wouldn’t I make it through boot camp? I was the captain of the football team and I would fight anyone at the drop of a hat. Anyway, there wasn’t one person, friends or family who thought I could be in the military.”
“I don’t know what to make of that.”
This has happened to me many times. People telling me what I can’t do when I know damned well I can do the thing. I think there are some of us this happens to as a matter of routine but what is more interesting is the people who say things like this to people. Why do they do it? Are they projecting their own fear?
In my case, I think this explains most of it (Saturn / Neptune) but I am not sure this has anything to do with the people who underestimated or were just plain confused around the soldier so here is the question:
Have you ever told someone they could not do something? If so, what were you thinking at the time?
37 Responses to ““You’ll Never Make It…” People Who Define Others And Try To Caution Or Try To Dissuade Other People Away From Their Ambition”
Oh yeah and thanks for posting this because I’ve been busy being sad and feeling like I can’t do/accomplish all kinds of stuff today. because I’m too lazy/inept etc. etc.
So now I’m off to take my own advice and start telling myself all the cool hit I can do. Thanks Elsa!
gee, no. I always tell everyone to go ahead and focus on what THEY want to do. I was always superficialy encouraged and deeply undermined by people in my family. I don’t get why anyone would want to be the person doing the discouraging…. yuck.
Happens to me all the time. I am a girl. Petite and blond, and I have worked in engineering my entire career as an engineer. Not all men – but some – don’t think women should be there.
I should add I have an engineering degree, and graduated high in my class.
I hope not, I like to believe in my dreams and those of others too. I agree with Kashmiri, dreams should be encouraged. They are the most intimate part of a person’s soul, rejecting that would be rejecting who they are. Ouch.
Omie – I had that experience too. It’s confusing to a kid, but then it reveals itself as extremely manipulative in hindsight. By getting you to fail they: feel better about themselves, AND get to be the one you turn to for comfort. Gross
“Not all men – but some – don’t think women should be there.”
Of course, and it comes out in a subtle form of contempt from these (insecure) types. They live to see you fail, and create every opportunity to drag you down. Genuinely confident men usually don’t act this way, they are actually supportive and considerate of others.
AnaBanana, you are right: that’s the dynamic. Took me most of my life to figure it out, it is hard to believe people are really like that, but they are…
sad.
I’m saddened to say that yes, I have. In my line of work, we’re filtering out people who are not fit to perform a certain duty. I guess we’re boot camp in a way. Due to loopholes in policy, we’ve had no choice but to pass people along who have no business being there. Right now, we’re dealing with someone who is so, so very obviously not on the right track, and we’re having to document her behavior and performance every step of the way. I hate to deter someone from their dream, but if the dream is but a delusion of grandeur, I am only too happy to step into the Saturn role and provide some banks to the stream. Believe me, y’all will thank me later.
Perhaps her dream would be better channeled into other, more appropriate directions. Rehab would be a good start. 
Del you’ve reminded me why I’d make such a shitty Saturn figure. Neptune figure yes! Saturn, noooo…
Thanks for being up to the job, we need people like you!
Thanks, kashmiri, you’re very sweet. I really enjoy your comments — no matter what happens, you’re honest to the heart and mostly upbeat about everything. And if you’re not upbeat at the moment, you have a spirit of optimism about you that’s really endearing and reminds me that yeah, tomorrow’s another day and anything could happen. So thanks again.
Del – that;s a good point and I thought of it when I wrote this. I find myself in circumstances like your describe and feel I absolutely can judge and then question if I should. Er… when it is not my job. For example, say I have a friend going down a garden path?
But again, if I have to cover all contingencies, it will disable my writing so I have to focus on the one point and really what I am after is exactly what I asked for WHY!!!!!!!!
What are you thinking when you do this? And you answered that beautifully but I just wanted to tell you I agreed with you, however when my sister told me I could not teach myself to drive and go to the store in a truck when I was 10 – By God, she was wrong and that WAS her projected fear.. ‘You’ll never make it to the store…”
Bullllllllllshit! 
If it’s just simple life-skills stuff like driving, hell, anyone can learn that with some practice. I learned to drive a tractor when I was 10. There are steps 1, 2 and 3, a little finesse with the steering and you’re good to go. Our brains, even (or especially) while young, are equipped to do this stuff.
“What are you thinking when you do this?” At this point, we’ve moved way, way beyond simple skills. I’m thinking that this young woman is incredibly insecure and her psyche needs something BIG to achieve to prove herself worthy by pursuing this goal. She’s mentally not up for the job, and she’s incredibly deceptive and manipulative. I have to balance my true, heartfelt compassion for her as an obviously damaged person with my duty to the public, which deserves someone sane and competent to fill this service role.
Feel bad for her. Feel worse for her future victims. Do the math.
So, I guess, in a convoluted way, I’m advising that one should intelligently predict a future outcome based on all available data. Will others suffer if she does this? Is it worth the price? To anyone involved? That’s kinda the bottom line to me.
Okay…I’m 31 and don’t drive. At all. I’ve had recurring dreams since I was 5 about driving a car, and losing control. At least once a month I dream about this.
I only faced up to the fact that I was scared to learn about 2 years ago (during my 8th House Saturn Return). I keep saying, this year, I’ll learn this year. And I don’t. But the dreams do not abate (my Neptune is in my 12th trine Saturn in my 8th).
I drove a car once when I was 17 and it was beyond frightening, more than anyone could realize that it was JUST LIKE MY DREAM. Super out of control, and the person with me as passenger even said “I thought for sure we were going to die.”
Yeah, well me too. I wish I could get over this, because my SO has promised that if I learn how to drive I’m allowed to drive us to Mexico and my Sag ASC is begging for the (unfulfilled) opportunity.
The weird thing? I’ve worked as a bicycle messenger for over a decade…and never felt the “I’m going to die” fear like being in a car. I really wish I could get over it!!!
Just popped out at me, but though I do not know the Soldier … it is possible folks thought he might not make it in the military because he may like to do things his own way (i.e., so being controlled by others wouldn’t seem his cup of tea)? Obviously that’s not how it turned out.
Of course, I don’t know much about the military either. But that’s what scares me about the idea of being in it – someone telling me what to do when, when to eat, when to sleep, when I’m “free” to do as I please. My Aquarius moon distinctly rebels against that idea!:)
kashmiri, honey, you can do this! All you need is a wide open space to train and a patient, encouraging teacher. Master the basics way out there in the middle of nowhere; graduate to suburb driving; then, when you’re ready, do the stop-go of the city; then get on the freeway (straightaway at first, then change some lanes, get off at an exit, and let that teacher buy you a beer and go home). I know it sounds a lot more simplistic than your fears tell you it is, but once you master it, like walking, it will become second-nature.
I don’t want to get all psychoanalytic on you, but it has occurred to me that all of the non-drivers I know have dependence issues.
Once you have the driving thing down, you will not BELIEVE the sense of power you can reclaim. I swear, it’s like moving out of your parents’ house. Highly recommended.
Love ya, gotta go do some work now….
I usually like to encourage people to follow their dreams! There are however some people that do suffer from delusions of grandeur. And there are other people who are so ungrounded that there dream changes week to week. It can be exhausting to be around people like this and to try and support and encourage them. I will not usually say out and out, you cannot do this, but I will suggest that they try on different coloured glasses. In subtle ways I may help them to focus. Sometimes I will remind them of what they already have and encourage them to develop this further. But as my daughter says, sometimes you just have to smile and nod.
Del- great comments, kashmiri- take a big old beater of a car and drive it out into a big field. Pretty soon you will be doing donuts and making whooping sounds out the window.
yeah, all the time… usually because someone’s disrupting the classroom
but, no, i’m very careful to tell someone they can’t follow a plan… i tend to assume if they want it that much, they can make it happen… though if i do foresee problems, i’ll try to trouble shoot a little… ask questions to get them thinking.
but i’ve had too many people tell me i can’t do things i damn well know i can to assume i could be sure of something like that for someone else…
Kashmiri, learning in an empty parking lot does wonders!! We’ll be rooting for you if and when you decide to tackle the driving thing– Go Kashmiri!
Del, what is your line of business? Is it rocket science? I’m being serious.
I don’t believe that I ever told anyone they couldn’t do anything. Who am I to tell someone that??? I may have my doubts on the topic , but I have learned over the years unless I am asked I don’t give unsolicited advice. I have a gal I work with and she is always telling her clients what they need to do. Some days it drives me nuts and I think hmmm she needs to start taking her own advice,lol. I have always learned things the hard way through banging my head against many walls,lol. The lesson usually stuck that way.
I have had people tell me you can’t or shouldn’t do that. Once when I went to hair school to be a hairdresser, after completing college getting a degree etc. My parents shit themselves,lol. But I had to be me and live my life and do what I felt in my heart to be true. More recently, last year I wanted to get pregnant and have another child(my daughter just turned 10) and I am of “advanced maternal age”lol. People where like WTF are you thinking are you sure you want to do that?? Well I ended up having my little guy this past 4th of July and I am very thankful and happy. How do any of us know what is in someone elses heart and what would bring them joy??? Who am I to tell someone that?
Kashmiri once you learn to drive it is such a freedom, I would go crazy with out my ride,lol. I do have a good friend that doesn’t drive it scares her I think. She gets around fine without problems and I usually pick her up on the way to the shop when I do her hair. She is a great lady.
I left the computer after reading this post but came back because it got me to thinking about something which may or may not be related to the topic: Telling me I can’t do something doesn’t nearly affect me as much as telling me I can’t feel what I’m feeling. Has anyone ever told you, “well, you can’t be angry when I do this or that or the other thing..”, or “you can’t be sad because…”. I have! Not often, but I have, and it always just stuns me. What is that all about? Is there an astrological explanation for this?
I mean, I have been told this… geez.
When I was in 6th grade, we had to all stand up in class and say what we wanted to be when we grew up to a substitute teacher we had that day. When I stood up to say mine, I apparently triggered some sort of latent resentment in this woman. She said, with great hostility in front of the whole class, that there was no way I was going to be able to do the 2 things I had stated. They were both big dreams, but not at all out of reach. One of them was already being done by my brother. How odd it was. I have to admit it affected me pretty badly. I am not either one of those things now – and one of them I still would have liked to have been. I am an overly sensitive person, though. As to why she did this, who knows?
I would definitely never tell anyone they can’t try something. But if I was in an industry and charged with weeding people out, I would do so if necessary. I imagine if someone in the military had told soldier he couldn’t do it after he had enrolled and was trying, then I’m guessing he’d see that differently. But to say to someone you can’t, when they haven’t even tried yet and you don’t even know anything about it, is trying to inflict pain for some reason, I think.
““well, you can’t be angry when I do this or that or the other thing..”, or “you can’t be sad because…”.”
Sounds like someone with basic control issue to me…
I’ve been away for a few days, but its nice to get back and read some heatwarming stuff on this site – the exchanges on this post have been great.
I have come across the ‘you can’t do that’ phenomenon (my mother in particular), but I’ve always done it just the same – sometimes just to spite her and prove her wrong and sometimes because the pull to do ‘the thing’ was just so strong anyway. The battle I seem to have is with myself – got a loud doubt voice going on internally with whom I have an extraordinary dialogue. Most days I just have to ignore it and push on regardless – but it is a tussle some days. (I am certain it is an echo of my mother and my child talking…).
Great stuff as ever – nice to be back.
Nope – i don’t tell people they can’t do something unless it happens to be something that infringes upon my boundaries. Usually when working through dreams with friends I try to help them evaluate their weaknesses and where they need support, training or a business partner to make their dream move forward. Very realistic and grounded because my dreams are really much more “out there” and difficult than most of my friend and relatives so I’m in no place to judge.
My aunt recently told my mother she couldn’t continue pursuing her dream (she’s made enough money to have to file taxes on it so far) because it was unrealistic and crazy etc. etc. My mom was pretty upset about this until I pointed out the my aunt is wholly and completely without hope in her life and to see it in my mom was difficult for her. She was just expressing her own hopelessness. My mom felt much better after seeing the situation like that.
For myself – been told I can’t start a non-profit – done that twice. Can’t build my own home – done that once (albeit a very small cabin like home) Etc. etc. I think that being told that I can’t do something just makes me clutch up and try harder. I tend to be very successful when I put my mind to a dream but it HAS to be a dream I truly want – not someone else’s dream – MINE!
When someone tells me I can’t do something it is like waving a red flag in front of me – just makes me more resolute.
I think that quality that Jilly and Mudlikesubstance have is great! Wish I had it. I’m more easily defeated. On the other hand, there isn’t a whole lot I’ve dreamed of that I haven’t gotten anyway, just not by actively going against the flow like you all are describing. So it’s sort of weird. But I really admire “fire in the belly” people.
i’ve been told it before; people chronically underestimate me. mostly i try to detach from their opinions and listen to my inner voice, which tends to be more accurate.
i’ve also thought it before about others, but keep it to myself. i see someone talking about something, and seeming to have little understanding of the actual work involved, or simply assuming they can bypass the process of learning/doing what would be involved by the sheer force of their will. however, in absence of a situation where it would actually be my responsibility to point this out, i know it’s none of my business and wish them well regardless.
Bayside, we’re training people to serve the public and that’s as specific as I’m going to get about what I do. It could apply to anything, though. We don’t need mentally ill cops, stoopid doctors, pedophile teachers, sadistic nurses, ballerinas who can’t dance. Not everyone is a good match for their dream.
No way, man! I think people can do much more than they give themselves credit for.
My mom was always telling me I couldn’t do this or that… that my math scores were going to keep me out of the college I wanted to go to, for example.
WELL, THEY DIDN’T! SCREW YOU, LADY!!
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Gad, never ever EVER would I tell someone they couldn’t do something! First of all I think it is rude (yes, I said rude. As in bad manners).
I believe that when people have dreams, no matter how crazy they are, they should be encouraged.
Lastly I think the act of dreaming is a creative one and to squelch it is to deny an essential pleasure in life. Traveling in your mind is really important…