“Well P, I met you not long after I got here (from another country) and I had no idea what was going on. I had to learn everything from you. Everything about everything, I learned from you! Did you know that? I have always been the learner and you the teacher.”

“No, I didn’t know. You know way more than I do.”

“Yeah, about some things that’s true. I know about physics. And I know how to fight a war and win. I know some things you don’t know but none of it counts when it comes to trying to live in this world. In this society which you understand. You understand people and how they think, hat they do and why where I have no clue.” Continue reading The Soldier - A Perplexed Taurus, Resistance To Change + Virgo and Iconoclastic Men Redux

Stephanie wrote regarding women hunting other women:

“…Women’s jealousy/insecurity/egoism and various attributes that bring out the dark side of them often appears to have little basis in achieving a particular goal other than to feel superior or elevate themselves in some way, falsely I’d say. I believe the only way to elevate yourself in any form is to empower others regardless of your feelings for or about them. You do not have to remain bound in any way to those you empower; however, it is the act of doing this for other women that keeps you in constant growth as an individual. Recognizing we all have a shadow side is key. The desire to do good with it opens doors for everyone.”

I am freakishly proud she’s a friend of mine… and it’s her birthday today, so Happy Birthday, Stevie!

And when I read her comment it made me think of Henry, the original iconoclastic man in my life who exposed me to this quote by Thomas Paine, which I have lived by since I was about 10.

“Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.”

Do you have a quote or some quintessential concept you live by?

“So what do you think they see in me then?” I asked. “Since virtually every man I know is like this. An iconoclast.”

“I don’t know, Elsie. I don’t know what these men see in you but for me, I would say that you’re like a link to the world. You’re so visceral. It’s as if I can experience life through you. I have experiences with you I can’t have any other way. It’s as if I can feel life through you. You give me access to something I can’t get any other way and whenever I spend time with you, I know I am going to have some kind of thrill.”

“Oh. Okay, well that’s cool. I get that. A link, huh?”

I thought of Barbara Hand Clow’s book, on Chiron. She talks about a “rainbow bridge” that links… well, you can read it if you want. She states that Chiron rules Virgo and the 6th house and is the link between the inner and outer planets. Virgo grounds the ethereal, basically.

When I read that book some years ago, it resonated with me, but I’d never heard anyone express anything like it, since. Inside or outside of astrology, I mean. And I thought about mentioning the book to Scott, but figured it would be irrelevant to him. He doesn’t need to read a book that outlines exactly what he can already articulate, so I kept quiet.

So what about you? Does any of this resonate? What do you think of the idea of Virgo being the earthly link to the ethereal?

I was talking to Ben last night, my very close friend of 20 years +. Ben is a Scorpio with an Aquarius rising. He a gay cello player / teacher of mixed race… and an iconoclast.

“Someone in Wichita told me I had an old soul” he said. “And I suppose I do. I imagine I’ve wandering around these halls for awhile.”

“I have no idea,” I said. “I don’t think in that kind of paradigm.”

“You don’t?”

“No. I have no idea how to judge something like that. I have no idea how old someone’s soul is. I haven’t got the slightest idea. I have a friend that does, though. She tells me this person is older than that person and stuff like that but I have no idea where she gets her information.”

“You don’t believe in that?”

“No, it’s not that. I have no idea about it. It sounds good. I tend to believe what she says, actually. She makes sense. I am just saying ideas like that don’t originate in me. I would never say, hey! He’s an old soul. Or she’s an old soul. Because I don’t know. But I figure she does. This is something she knows. I mean, it’s not like she’s not a flake. She’s not running around saying soul mate left and right and being all flippy. I respect her, is what I’m saying. So when she tells me something like this, I figure she knows what she’s talking about. Like the woman who said that to you in Wichita. Maybe she knows. She probably does. But I don’t have any idea how to know how old someone’s soul is. It’s not my paradigm.”

“I see.”

“But I do like the idea. It makes sense. Because some people are incredibly lightweight so it’s an explanation for that, anyway. It’s an idea that works.”

“Lightweight? You can say that again. Some people are a blank slate. They don’t seem to get it at all. It’s like they don’t understand a thing and they can’t learn.”

“I know. But I just don’t think in those terms of how old someone’s soul is. I would not attribute that to old or new soul because I just have no idea about that kind of thing. It’s remote from me so I can’t use that kind of language. But I’ll tell you what does originate inside of me, though.”

“What?”

“When I meet someone who acts their whole chart. When they have all their pieces integrated. Or most of them. It’s like a person who is firing on all their cylinders, rather than denying who they are. Or projecting huge pieces of themselves onto other people and just completely unaware of what they’re doing. A person who acts like themselves, exactly as they are… I call that an actualized person.”

“Oh. Yes. That resonates with me as well.”

“Well, I’m not surprised. You were like this from the day I met you. Do you remember back then? Think of the pictures. Think of how we looked back then. We were very cute. We were babies!”

“Yes we were babies! But we didn’t know it.”

“I know. But even back then you were completely who you are. You were already completely integrated whether you knew it or not and this is what I’m talking about. You were something else. You were very compelling to everyone, and being young and stupid was irrelevant to that. You still had all your sides firing. And I could give you examples of this. Of stuff and stories from back then that proves this. So you have always been fully actualized but as to how you got that way, I have no idea.”

So what about you? Do you have a way to classify people you meet? And how do you think people might classify you?

With all these planets in Scorpio and Pluto transiting my Moon, I am very into examining what attracts me at a deep level, and why. Saturn transiting the 7th house (relationships) is part of this as well. Learn for chrissakes! So the other day Scott told me I was attracted to “all these iconoclastic men”.

“What do you mean?” I asked. “What do you mean, iconoclastic?”

I knew the word and had some idea what it meant, but I wanted to hear him tell me.

“You always pick these men… they’re singular and they’re always isolated somehow.”

“Oh yeah. Yeah, I know that. That’s what I like.”

I got off the phone and mentioned this conversation to another pal. And my pal wasn’t sure what the word meant. Either was I or at least I wasn’t confident enough I understood it’s meaning well enough to tell her something definitive, so we both looked it up. And if you do the same, this is what you’ll find, more or less:

1 : a person who destroys religious images or opposes their veneration
2 : a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions

Which is kind of, sort of what he means. But not exactly. Scott has a modern definition he can rattle off, but as I’ve said before, Scott’s vocabulary is freakish and I can’t always write his dialogue by memory.

But anyway, we talked about this a second time. And I was trying to wrestle an exact definition out of him and at one point , he said I might substitute the word. “Non-conformist”.

But I thought that had a completely different connotation. “That sounds like someone who would join a group or be part of some resistance. The men I like stand alone. They are completely singular. In one way or the other, they are too far out. They just don’t fit anywhere…”

“That’s right. That’s right, Elsie. Those are the only men you’re interested in,” he said. “Anyone else can’t hold your attention at all.” He laughed.

“Well I’ll tell you where that comes from,” I said. “It comes from Howard Roark. In Ann Rand’s book, “The Fountainhead”. I was crazy for that guy,” I said. “I was insane.”

He laughed.

“Seriously. Give a horn dog like me, a book like that? Good God. Some librarian gave me that book when I was 11 or maybe 12 and that was it. I started masturbating like crazy over that guy. Howard Roark! Seriously, I was out of my mind over him. It’s not possible for someone to be more attractive than Howard Roark. I was pretty much insane having fantasies about him, night and day.

He roared and I stopped to think. Mars on Mercury. Hotted up by a book? Why not?

“I’m not sure that librarian should have even put that book in my hands it had such an impact. Because I was in a true fever. I was crazed and puberty and all. But anyway, this is it. Now you know what I am up to when I pick the men I do. I am looking for Howard Roark! And anything less is not interesting to me… you’re right. For what? I don’t like to waste my time. I want a total individual. Someone completely actualized and hell bent to do what they’re going to do!”

“You like ‘em a little bit detached,” he said.

“Well yeah! I don’t need anyone breathing down my neck! I like men who are completely themselves…. oddballs, and super, very, very sexual. And there is nothing I can do but admit it, Scott. So I admit it.”

He made a smug noise. Scott is always a little surprised when I agree with him. Twenty years ago I was so much more defended. I’d fight him over anything and everything. But anyway, does anyone have a similar story? Alternately, how’s the sky full of Scorpio treatin’ you?

Catch up on this thread by clicking tag “attraction” below.