Saturn In Libra: Trend Towards Modest, Conservative Dress, Decorum AKA How To Keep Your Job In 2010
Astrology in real life
I hesitate to say this but oh well. I am pretty sure I cost someone their job today. I am saying this in the hope it helps someone here keep a job they need but it is sooooooo un-PC.
It is so un-PC that when my friend, Ben went on a rant about this some months ago, I typed the conversation but never posted it because I just didn’t want to deal with the fall out. Saturn was in Virgo, right? Put a lid on that but things have changed now. They have progressed and like I said, mind this stuff or don’t but if you don’t chances are it will cost you.
Most of you know Ben is my lifelong friend. He’s a cellist and a cello teacher and a gay man. He’s quite celebrated for both his playing and his teaching. He’s been at it all his life and he is pretty disgusted with the kids, “these days”. He was taking his kids to some competition - Ben has an Aries Moon and he likes to WIN things and he was just disgusted with the kids.
“The girls are all over their putting on their makeup, fixing their hair, they look like sluts and no one cares! This is competition! All that matters is how well you play the instrument, not your stupid hair but do you think these kids know that? They don’t. They think it’s about their hair and their fingernails. Elsa, they have no idea how bad they are… how bad they suck and they do suck. Their playing sucks, they look like sluts, the boys look like criminals, they look like they just got out of prison, they can’t play for shit and I’ve got to take these losers to compete. I have never had a group of kids this lousy and do they know it? Hellll no! They have no concept it’s about anything more then their makeup. They have no idea the judges are looking for TALENT and they would like to see some. Talent? Brains? Put the two together? These kids don’t know anything about that but anyway, this is what I’ve been doing, Elsa. I’m gearing up to take these imbeciles on parade. I hope the judges laugh at them. If I were a judging that’s what I’d do. I laugh them right off the stage, they are just that bad.”
Makes you wonder if things are going to continue to degrade but I don’t think so. I think a wake up call is coming - it is already here for those who read the signs.
Today I left my local pharmacy in a large chain store. I stopped at guest services on the way out and got the store’s phone number, punching it into my cell phone as the gal rattled it off. I was very aware that I’d never done anything like this in my life.
I dialed in the parking lot. “May I speak with the store manager? I have a comment,” I said minding my Saturn in Virgo lessons. The manager came online.
“I have been filling my prescriptions here for 5 years, ” I said. “The staff in your pharmacy is incredible. They have provided me with excellent service without exception. Everyone in there has consistently gone above and beyond.”
“Yes?”
“But you’ve got this new kid in there now, Carl? This is the second time I have seen him and… well he’s disgusting. He’s slow, he’s rude and he’s distracted. He acts petulant having to put up with customers and really he is just downright disrespectful. I’ll tell you, I can’t stand this guy,” I said casually as if I were talking to a friend. “I’d rather deal with a mule. A mule would be faster, smarter and have a better attitude so I say if you are going to have Carl represent you, you should get a mule in there too so people can have a choice.”
Silence.
“Yeah, you’ve got a whole line of people waiting in there right now thinking the same thing I am so that is it, that’s all I have to say.”
“Okay,” she said. “I’ll get out there and see what we’ve got going on…”
“Good idea.”
*click
I don’t feel sorry for that guy at all. What flew in 2007 is not going to cut it in 2010. If you work in a pharmacy you are going to deal with people my age so if you think people over 25 are irrelevant, and you are shit-hot and special, you’re in the wrong slot. Further, there is someone who needs that job, someone who deserves it so…
I am sure that Ben would like to again meet a girl concerned about something besides her hair. Class, brains, talent, decorum? These things are classically attractive. I think the worm has turned here, we’ll see.
For the record, many of you know I worked in a old man’s bar when I was 19. 80% of the customers were over 50 and guess what? I wasn’t a punk.
Point here is this: Substance is in vogue, so is humility. Catch on or be trampled, that’s all I can say.
Comments?
56 Responses to “Saturn In Libra: Trend Towards Modest, Conservative Dress, Decorum AKA How To Keep Your Job In 2010”
I have noticed this too. Mind you, there are kids working out there who may be a little over the top in the way they dress on the job but still give good service without the sucky attitude.
Too much competition for jobs of any kind now from older, experienced workers who KNOW how to show up looking and acting professional. This will be a hard, hard lesson for some. It is suck it up time for them. Sorry to be a hard a** but that’s reality.
Well there are not enough jobs so you are going to have to compete. Duh. And people like Carl are not likely to figure this out. I just don’t think he’s got the capacity.
I mean, if someone wants to hire this guy (why?) then for Godsakes grok the fact he is not front office material.
I am sure the gal went out there and saw what I saw. You’ve got 5 old people waiting in line mostly because this dumb ass is so incredibly slow and then your turn comes up and he ACTS (over acts in my opinion) like he is doing you a favor.
The dumbass couldn’t even find an RX in alphabetical order. Why pay this guy, hmm? I’d rather jump the counter, get the RX, scan it, pay for it and be out of there with no interaction with a jackass required.
You see what I am saying? The guy is not even NEUTRAL, he’s a negative and does he know it? Helllll no. He thinks he’s stooping to interact with me. ::shakes head::
thanks Elsa. People need to hear this.
Ugh. I periodically teach a one day class in my field at a university in my city, NYC. These are college seniors about to go on to do graduate level work in this field, and lately I have been disheartened at two things. 1. The women all dress like sluts, and these are seniors in a serious class at a good and serious school in a serious city. If the surfaces were the only issue, if there were values in place underneath, I would be a little more forgiving about this, but 2. The questions they ask, which reveal their primary interest in this profession, are also blatantly superficial. About what is a hard core and historic industry and profession, they want to know: Have you met celebrities? Which ones? Do you get gifts and perks through your job? How are the political events and parties? I couldn’t fathom it. My high school classmates were more serious students. I walked away, and remain, baffled.
I wonder what people like that are thinking?
I think people speaking up to what they interpret to be out of balance like you did Elsa, is a good thing for 2 reasons. 1st reason: It gives the clerk a view point on what they need to improve on on a personal and professional level, to keep what most people consider a gift during these times, their j.o.b.
The 2nd reason: It gives the owner a view point on how well his hiring skills are going, and were improvements are needed to keep up on demand of what his customers expect, to keep those customers coming back to their store.
I keep thinking we are in a CARDINAL world now, where taking action, any action, is demanded. Hell, I live with a triple Aries who believes doing SOMETHING is always better than doing nothing!
Heads are gonna roll ’cause it’s a square, not an easy going trine, between Saturn & Pluto now. Squares are good for pointing out weak places and with the Cardinal push to take action . . . look around your workplace in a year and see if the deadwood is still there.
Conscientious Saturn-Cappy types will be there though . . . 
You know, I was thinking of doing this to someone who sold me theater tickets and copped a huge attitude during the transaction.
We went up to him and politely asked him what the availability was for X show. He rolled his eyes and said, “WHICH ONE.”
So we looked at him blankly and then my bf said, “Can you tell us what the choices are?”
So then he proceeded to run through the choices in a rather bored tone, like we were boring the crap out of him with our utter ignorance.
Well, I guess if we KNEW, we would have already SEEN the show and would not be there purchasing tickets.
I was so mad I was ready to call up the manager and in fact memorized his name for just that purpose. But I didn’t. I still know what his name was.
Next time I get shitty service, I’m making the call. If you don’t enjoy dealing with customers, don’t be in customer service.
Castle, the kid is thinking he is special and that putting on airs is attractive - my God but is he out of the loop.
Nancy, I agree. I am pretty sure I won’t see this kid again. He is just too glaringly incongruous in the environment. Simply put, no one in that line thought that kid was cute. This was my second trip and it is this simple: Asking me to tolerate him is asking too much. I will most definitely vote with my feet.
Frankly, I was supervised to see him a 2nd time. The pharmacists, rest of the staff is so competent and service oriented, I’d have thought they’d have complained themselves. I probably did them a favor making the call.
It’s interesting to me, Ben and I used to work together, that’s how we met. We were both KICK ASS servers and would be incredibly bothered when someone sub-standard was hired. We felt they ran off business - our business - and since we were both competitive for tips, we would run the bastard out in no time. Seriously, you can tell when someone is just not cut out for something and putting up with someone one like this is just annoying as fuck for people who want to maintain a standard.
I always figured we were doing the person a favor, along with ourselves and the customer. It’s not everyone who can work in a restaurant, that’s just all there is to say.
When I was in a group interview a few months ago for a part time job at Toys R Us, there was someone there who just graduated from high school. She mentioned that she had been looking for a job and had not been successful so far. She said something like “yeah, I thought I would get the job because, like, I’m *young*”
I just smiled. LOL. Being young isn’t a *skill.*
I would like to say, though, that I’ve had my fair share of 50-60 year old grumpy, entitled people who are pissed that they have to stoop to do customer service now that they got laid off. They’re no better.
Thank you Elsa! Thank you!
I am not that much older than 25, but I have had some experiences with my cohorts. Last year I hired 2 editors to do some editing.
1. The first editor kept the material for 3 months. When I became aggressive with him he then told me that he allowed the material to be carried across state lines via his friend’s backpack. I had to get a third party involved in order to retrieve my material.
2. The second editor kept my material for 3 months - again. He also pulled a no show when I wanted to meet with him to review what he had done. I waited for 3 hours. No call nothing.
Mind you I was paying both of them! Both were about 22-23 at the time.
I had to threaten the 2nd one in order to get my material back and then I reminded him of my IP rights, that the contract we had was void, and of course that he would not be getting paid.
He sent me the nastiest letter. As if he were doing me a favor by me paying him to edit for me. Told me I had no talent. Blah Blah.
So I sent a generic memo saying thank you for your opinion. I refuse to stoop to his level.
The whole time I was in film school I hated working with other students. They were unreliable and irresponsible. I noticed the way they dressed too. My parents always encouraged me to be/look professional and put together.
Expression is one thing, but looking like a bum in a professional setting was a no-no and God many of my cohorts did look scary.
At any rate, it is interesting you mentioned pharmacy. I used to work in one. I hated the long lines. It made me angry every time I came in and the line wandered down the aisles. It didn’t help that we were across the street from an ER. So a lo of our customers were really sick when they came in. I wasn’t overly friendly, but I wasn’t rude. The most important thing for me was to get them taken care of asap. Especially the sick ones from the ER and the elderly ones who were standing so long.
My co workers thought it was more important to laugh and joke with one another and hang up on people calling scripts in.
Good maybe all the shitty workers will get a reality check.This is a constant issue for me, as I work with the public and I feel I treat others how I would like to be treated, like a person. I hate it when I go into a store and someone in customer service acts like they are doing me a FAVOR by doing their damn job!! You’re effing kidding me right!!! lol then there is the flip side when you are helping someone and they know you have to be nice so they come in cause they hate their life and shit all over you, knowing you have to take it ugggh. Humility and respect are lacking here.
Well, I just went to the grocery store and was helped by FOUR different young men, all of them courteous, kind and respectful.
These people deserve jobs…
Yes I guess the shitty workers are not aware there are 10 good workers waiting to take their place.
I hear this. Things are shifting. Values are becoming not “preferences” but societal Rules that are crossed with consequence. I feel a strong conservative shift in myself lately and quite frankly, it’s scaring the shit out of me. But it’s there.
I encourage everyone to do the same thing Elsa did.
The places with good service get my business. I make sure that I give them compliments too.
@ Miss
“I hate it when I go into a store and someone in customer service acts like they are doing me a FAVOR by doing their damn job!! You’re effing kidding me right!!!”
Not only that, but I think this is common across service industries across the board. I tend to get my hair and skin done a lot and there are people who it seems LOVE to give you the service they want you to have vs the one you asked and are paying for i.e.
1. Asking for a 1″ trim and ending up with 3-4″ missing
2. Asking for all over sandy blonde and getting chocolate brown with brassy gold streaks instead -even though you brought pictures
3. Asking for a microderm with acid peel and getting the “new strong acid” only - which does nothing for your skin, but are charged for the microderm and peel price anyway
I can’t tell you the number of times I have paid good money (bc I didn’t want to go to jail for theft of services) and been so miserable bc of people give you what they want you to have instead of what you asked and are paying for.
sorry for the typos
If this Cardinal time does anything to bring back the true idea of customer service, I will be rejoicing.
I think companies had better start valuing their customers again, because instead of the ways of the past 20 years it feels like, they have the attitude who cares, we have droves that will come and spend their dollars. Well times are changing and faster than anyone imagined. Obviously I am not alone in expecting polite and professional service when I spend my hard earned cash.
Depending on the gravity of the situation or if it is ongoing, I will take my business elsewhere. I am proactive and will phone the manager to explain, although I do believe that that they also need to step up and watch new trainees to make sure that they are representing the company correctly.
I applaud your actions on the complaint,Elsa.
If I see Carl again, I will call corporate and if I see him after that, I will shop elsewhere.
But I bet you they get the guy off the floor.
I once had a job I hated. Had to deal all day every day, mostly on the phone, with the public.
One day, I was getting my ‘Carl’ on, crabby and irritable, and this lady called and asked a question. Without answering her, I set the phone down and reached for the schedule, grumbling about people who don’t save the schedule from the newspaper, and when I got back on, she taught me a very valuable lesson by encouraging me to look for another job where the public didn’t have to put up with me - whoa.
One of those times where the truth hits you right between the eyes - I stammered an apology, followed by a thank you for having the patience to tell me ’bout myself, and answered her question. She was very nice about the whole thing, and I never forgot it. That wake up call lasted these 30 years - she was so right.
Yeah, Elsa, I needed that job, too! My kids were small, their dad was in school, and I was the only one working. Serious Reality Check.
Looks like if you mess with the goat, you get the horns 
Not really, WanderingStar. As I mentioned, I have never done anything like this in my life and because of that I did a personal scan before dialed that number.
By that I mean, I checked myself to see if I was acting out / going to unjustly cause a person a problem and what I got back is that this was the right thing to do - something I should and was supposed to do.
For the record, it takes balls to do something like this (and to write something like this) because if I AM wrong, who do you think it is going to come back on?
I think I know the answer to that.
Peppermint, Whoa, that’s intense. Being handed a mirror to your blind spot. I love moments like that, when life is close to the bone.
And now, a Saturn cycle later, Peppermint repeats the woman’s words so that another generation might profit.
Reminds me of when I repeat the stuff the old guys told me in the bar when I was a kid. That is Saturn for you.
You did the right thing Elsa, and you did the right thing by posting about it.
I used to do recruitment and headhunting and I NEVER gave a position to anyone with a bad attitude, however well qualified they were on paper. I never employed anyone who hadn’t taken the trouble to dress correctly, and I once stopped an interview five minutes in because the man had such a bad attitude. Oh boy, did he get on his high horse! But I didn’t back down, I wouldn’t have been doing my job if I’d let someone like that through.
That’s Saturn for you. And with Pluto in Capricorn? Ha.
What concerns me at the moment is that it is easy enough to complain about bad service in a store, but what about when it comes to online services?
A while ago I paid another online astrologer for a reading which I never got. I asked for my money back a few times and I’m still waiting for it - so what do we do in these situations where any crook can take advantage? Trust gets abused and there is no comeback that I know of, short of broadcasting the guys name all over the net, which is not my style. Saturnian decorum, see.
It sounds as though most of you live in the big city. I have encountered many, many people like you describe…in the city. But up here in small town city, you never run into that kind of attitude. It’s not because everybody knows everyone else, they don’t. It’s because everyone respects everyone else.
They haven’t learned the bad attitudes, the bad dress, the holier-than-thou personality. They see it, though. When the tourists come up in the summer and it’s bad. Real bad. They bring that city-stuff here and everyone can’t wait until they’re gone.
You never see one with the attitudes you describe; they either don’t get hired or are fired within the first five minutes. Too many rats in a cage act mean. That’s what cities are to me…
As someone who manages a regional customer service center my viewpoint is that you can’t shove this on the kid with more attitude than brains. If he was that bad, then he shouldn’t have been behind the counter in the first place.
Sound like he didn’t get enough training. Again, that’s on management.
That you had to call someone from your cell phone rather than have them come out from their office–again bad management.
Oh, no. Elsa, I don’t play that crap.
The other day, I encountered the opposite problem. Asked a 70-year-old postal worker a question, politely, no one else on line, and he treated me like a nuisance of a kid who didn’t know jack.
I stopped him in his tracks and, in a sarcastic tone similar to his, said, “sir, I am aware of that. But where can I find…? Rrright, sir, you’ve been a great help. Thanks.”
I don’t waste time addressing management, especially not when it comes to slacking city workers ’cause I’ll get nowhere doing that. Been there, done that.
Nah, nowadays I just kindly let the worker know first-hand who they’re dealing with.
Uh, just read Beth’s comment… and side with her to some degree.
Bad management elects icky workers as representatives, sure. But bad management ALSO takes good workers and greedily milks their nice energy until there is almost nothing left. Hence, the not-so-stellar employee attitude.
Grrrr.
Hmmm, this is very interesting tome. I have Saturn in my natal 6th house conjunct Chiron, and Libra rising, with Mars conj. Asc. I have worked for almost thirty years doing peoples hair…20 of that one-on-one out of a studio in my home. I must say a healthy half of my clientele (at times, more) have been “over a certain age”…the wisdom I have and the wisdom shared, through conversations with those “Saturn” oriented people, and my natal Libra rising…I think,is going to help me in the next few years…I hope. I thank you for re-enforcing that for me!
Relatives…The job market has been sour for a while. HR will have a pile of apps in the back (any good HR rep does) And jobs you applied for months ago, you will get a call..It will sound like this. “Yah I interviewed you about 4 or 5 months ago, we ummm all of a sudden have an opening ummm do you think you can come in etc..
Because the crappy relative you were forced to hire sucks and usually are so stupid they stop showing up for the shift. This is the natural order of things but becuase customer service has been very slow lack of consumers the natural order has been delayed in idiots like Carl..
Carl is someones relative.
Oh I now live in the country..
Just went to Jewel. Mom is the manager and that is what two of the checkers call her, the other calls her Auntie…Her father is working in the produce department (he is actually helpful)
Big Lots has the father as manager and 2 children as checkers. One of the daughters has 5 lip rings a nose ring I lost count of the eyebrow rings and blue and pink hair. I had cash and 3 items it took her 10 minutes to ring me up with a register that has a scanner.
What was saturn in virgo thinking ?
Virgos do put up with extreme stupidity but not forever….
There are so many people that dont like their jobs, but still they treat others kindly! Its not the customers fault if he(Carl) doesnt like his job or if he has other issues .
I think you did the right think Elsa.
—thing–
Elsa, speaking from the other side of the counter (well, currently figuratively), I think you did a favour both to the employer and to the employee. Even if the fact someone who obviously doesn’t have a clue about customer service was found behind the counter was due to some kind of bad management (even momentarely), it’s always good to notify the people in charge of the situation.
BTW, I learnt a lesson about dressing appropriately for a job in one of my first customer service jobs was waitressing at a very busy pizzeria in Italy. The oven was downstairs, I served to tables upstairs. And the stairs were wrought iron, one could see through them. The very first thing the more exprience waitresses told me was not to wear a skirt, because the teenagers (and not only) populating the pizzeria would wait under the stairs to get a peek. Italians don’t tip, and in any case, that wasn’t the kind of attention you’d be looking for as a relatively blonde foreigner in a small town.
Speaking as a prosperous but antisocial Capricorn, I can attest to the fact that “being effective” is really the best, and easiest, way to go about doing any job.
You don’t have to feel passion for a job you hate, and you don’t have to be anything more than curtly polite with customers and co-workers. You don’t even have to brown-nose anyone. Just do what you need to do to be effective. Nothing more, nothing less.
Furthermore,you would be amazed how much crap you can get by with, as long as your manager knows that s/he’s getting a “good deal” by keeping you on the payroll.
I recommend even asking your manager, on occasion, “How can I be more effective at accomplishing ___?” They will do backflips, especially if you’ve come with ideas and a genuinely open mind to the table.
I heartily agree with Goatboy. As both a worker and a boss, you come to realize that effective workers are hard to come by — merely trying to do your best and appearing to care about the effort, regardless of what’s really in your mind, wins you points of pure platinum.
I also think that American companies do themselves, and their employees, such a dis-service by claiming to be “a family.”
Screw that transparently B.S. nonsense. It puts the whole boss/employee relationship in entirely the wrong frame.
If I ever start my own company, the first page of the employee orientation manual will be something like “Our objective is to be an effective team. We are not a family, or a home away from home. We are a business, but we can be buddies.”
Whoo hooo *does the happy dance*
I’m the one who showed up for an interview for a professional position in a suit. And I didn’t get the job because I was overqualified, over dressed, and out gunned both of my interviewers.
And didn’t get it as I was humble, respectful and competent. I thought it would be a very good “buy” for them but.. no.
I also recently watched a very experienced harvard grad (15 or 18 years of experience) not get a job because of the person’s handshake was a “wet fish” This was two months ago.
I felt that I should elaborate where I’m coming from. Every job I’ve ever held has received no less than 120% of my effort. I worked in a few customer service jobs, even one teaching job, and still got the short end of the stick because I worked for poopy management.
Luckily, I’d established connections with customers, clients and parents who saw me for who I was when my “managers” and “supervisors” and “directors” did not because they were immature drinking buddies the lot of them.
It starts at the top. I’m glad you spoke with management and hope that Carl cleans up or the manager replaces him if he doesn’t. But in the jobs I’ve worked, that wouldn’t have gotten me anywhere until an employee did something that was completely out of hand, and even then their contracts or unions would simply protect them.
Sucks. And to be honest, I really don’t feel sorry for all the greedy corporations, and the awful workers they’d hired, who are falling…
In these times a job is a PRIVILEGE. If Carl is rude and obnoxious, he needs to be booted out..You DID compliment the employees who were doing the GREAT JOB–I’m with you–substance,humility, the Gen Y’ers have a lot to learn– plenty of boomers and X-ers willing to take their jobs if not..
Elsa, thank you for inspiring me to write to corporate HQ about a terrible employee I have to deal with on a regular basis. I had been thinking about contacting them but just never did it. Hopefully, this will help the situation.
This brings back memories for me…
I used to be a secretary, and I cop to having a bad attitude at times. I didn’t WANT to be like that. I always went into a new job with high hopes, then got slowly disillusioned. All of the jobs I held, without exception, had awful management.
There was one job that I loved and was actually happy to come in to work, for once…then one month later, they brought in this incompetent fool. He did everything he could to make me miserable. I quit a few month later. That was a classic case of driving away a happy employee. (I would find out much later that the guy wanted to get rid of me because “my salary was way too high” and replace me with an hourly temp-to-hire.)
I bear part of the responsibility for things going sour, because I could have sucked it up and kept quiet, but I didn’t. I just couldn’t stay in a job where I had to report to and have my workload given by these clueless dolts. After the last disaster, it dawned on me that I was simply not suited to this line of work. I did myself and the secretarial world a favor by quitting for the last time. Let someone who wants that kind of job take it. Lesson (Saturn) learned.
This is totally beside the point but Neith, I just saw your picture and your hair looks fabulous!
Wow–goatboy– interesting insights..and some very practical tips.. my DH and I own a business and as a Cancerian I think I work too hard to make it a wonderful family for everyone..of course that always backfires,I mean who DIDN’T have a DYSFUNCTIONAL l family–I find that after a while employees start acting out their own family DYSFUNCTIONS in the workplace..better to stick with the “buddy” idea,I think!
AND: YES! ASK ME HOW YOU CAN BE MORE EFFECTIVE– wouldn’t THAT be a great day in my book???!
Was back at this pharmacy yesterday and sure enough the guy was gone. I was relieved because in the interim I’d decided if he was there, I would not call corporate but just abandon the place. It’s just not my job to tell big business how to run their business. Complain once and then vote with your feet!
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