Jul
6

Saturn In Virgo: Guard The Mind, But How? And Outline By Elsa P

Outtakes and various other sundries

virgoFrom the boards, Crackers writes:

And this is what I was musing on in my response to your “wrap up” post today, where you advise guarding your mind. Just that in addition to healthy skepticism about things, there needs to be ways of testing the alleged facts. And without first person knowledge, what are the tests?

I’m very interested in devising some tests, so I can have actual opinions about things. But I’m not willing to form opinions without that, and I’m not yet seeing good ways of so doing. If I’m going to have to test everything first hand, I’m certainly going to have to pick and choose what to formulate opinions about. I need a staff!

Personally, I consider the motive (or possible motive) of the source. What is their agenda?

In the case of the interview with the psychopath, the audience that would be interested in watching / hearing a killer talk is much larger than the audience who would be interested in watching / hearing a killer lie so if the motive is to get attention and make money, you’ve got to present the thing as truth.

In the case of Lonnie Athens, he was actually driven to discover something, so much so that he about got himself raped and/or killed in the process of talking to these criminals.  That information is very different than what you’d read about in The Sociopath Next Door where the author is criticized for writing about psychopaths “in theory” since she had never actually met one.

Why did she write that book? Because it’s a sexy topic, maybe?

Compare to Gavin DeBecker and his book, The Gift of Fear. DeBecker is a product of violence himself and I am sorry but there is nothing in the world that substitutes for time in the trenches.

You can see how all of these products (the interview, the study and the 2 books) may be worth reading but knowing what you are reading / absorbing… considering it’s source, is going to make you a hell of a lot smarter while not considering it’s source will have the opposite effect.

Anyone else have tips on how to discern and discriminate information?


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Astrology, Astrology in Real Life, ,   |   Posted at 12:38 pm 

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12 Responses to “Saturn In Virgo: Guard The Mind, But How? And Outline By Elsa P”

1.
DenaMaria
DenaMaria

Elsa, you are so right about this. I did read that book “Sociopath next door” and was befuddled because the author really said nothing the whole book. A friend of mine had given it to me.to read ..(.one who had never encountered a sociopath until the one she is with now and still does not believe he is one) to show me that I was wrong about her boyfriend. I asked her where she got the book because I had never seen it or heard of it…..and the descriptions she gives in the book sound like they came out of a textbook….no examples of behavior, repetitive patterns to look for……I could be wrong but now you confirmed my doubts.

I have been in some crazy situations and been around crazy people so I have a nose for it now, I guess you could say. Considering the source is extremely important. Talk to someone who can give some details or analysis of situations in a way that lets you know they know what the heck they are talking about….they have experienced it.

For example, I was in a Social Services meeting with a woman that I have been working with for almost 3 years…..the meeting is a monthly update, all the people involved in the case get together and give a review of what has been going on with children and mom for last month. Well, the topic this one time was about my client’s 12 yr. son. His social worker was saying that when she picked him up from school a couple of times the week before, he seemed to be “down”..in a down mood. She tried to talk to him, but he wasn’t openning up and didn’t feel like talking. This upset the SW and she thought he required immediate pyschiatric treatment and took him to the therapist and they put him on medication.

There were seven women in the group meeting and they all agreed that she had done the right thing. I was interpreting for the mom (my client) and she was in tears because she did not understand why they thought he needed medication and they were not listening to her. They just kept saying, “because the therapist said so and he probably is still suffering trauma) we still at this point cannot figure out what the trauma was, but they have diagnosed him.

I got so upset and was later reprimanded by my boss for having done so….I am just an interpreter…..but, I spoke up and asked how many of them had children, (one person) and of those that had children how many had 12 yr. old boys (none). Then how do you know that what the child was experiencing wasn’t just normal behavior for a kid that age and it did not require medical attention, let alone medication. If you have been around a 12 yr. old boy, you know….they are moody, they like their quiet time….most teenagers do. My point is that none of these women knew what the hell they were talking about and all they were doing was delaying the time when the kids finally got placed back with their mother.

There has been an audit done at this particular place and several staff members have been fired. The children are finally (cross fingers) going back to mom at the end of this month.

You can’t go mouthing off something you have no idea about. You have to do research.

 
2.
Crackers
Crackers

Interesting Denamaria. I also think that specialists get so they see things thru the lens of their specialty, and/or want to practice their skills. E.g., the surgeon wants to cut you regardless of whether there’s non-invasive ways to try - cuz that’s what he likes to do. The social worker/therapist are on the look out for the emergencies (or whatever) and see what they want to see.

I was thinking after Elsa posted the Honduras pics yesterday, about how a picture is supposed to be worth a thousand words. Yet that feels like a shakier path to discerning truth now too. Photoshopping, certain camera angles, or simply misrepresenting what is being shown. (not opining about those particular pics, of course!)

BTW, I’m reading the Gift of Fear right now (excellent!) and just ordered 3 for family. (thru Elsa’s amazon link of course.)

 
3.
Erradin
Erradin

There’s one book I read recently that actually covers the topic of discerning good information though it is from a military perspective. The Mission, The Men, and Me: Lessons from a Former Delta Force Commander. It focuses on a lot of the life lessons the guy learned. For example listening to the guy on the ground instead of satellite imagery and making sure everyone is on the same shared reality for making informed decisions.

Other than that I tend to do a lot of double checking and fact checking on things that I’m not entirely sure of. Check, double check, and then, after processing, decide. It does get harder and harder though so when in doubt defer to the guy on the ground… if you can find the guy on the ground… or even the ground.

 
4.
DreamsAreality
DreamsAreality

Trust but verify - that was R. Reagan’s saying. Lovely google helps a lot too these days.

 
5.
Jilly
Jilly

Double check, check various sources, know the biases of your sources, know that everyone is biased in some way.

 
6.
Jilly
Jilly

biased / has an agenda I mean.

 
7.
Amy S.
Amy S.

Trust but verify - that was R. Reagan’s saying.

Actually, that was originally a Roman proverb.

 
8.
maureen
maureen

One of the things i found so fascinating about Hurricane Katrina?? People in charge were saying one thing, but the pictures showed the exact opposite.

 
9.
K
K

“The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker is THE best book hands down. I think I would call it wising up and sizing up, and he preaches listening to that animal part of yourself that knows things and knows when it is threatened and to take appropriate action and not go against instinct. and I agree. Not going into too many details, I lived in Charlestown Massachusetts for five years near the worst public housing projects in the City of Boston. You have to size up and wise up when you live in a neighborhood like that. First you identify is someone is a threat or not, and if they are a threat how do you neutralize it. Not pretty - not idealistic - but until all of humanity is spiritually enlightened - a necessity if you live in the city.

 
10.
kashmiri
kashmiri

I have a talent for remembering random bits of information. I use this to my advantage all the time.

-remembering that ‘feelings’ can some from other places within you than the place that says “i want this to be true”

-respect for boundaries (yours, especially) will be an ally when you are discerning information

-body language

I like that proverb. Sums up my approach, actually:)

 
11.
wyrdling
wyrdling

look for consistency. do all the pieces add up? do they keep repeating one thing or does it create a whole picture? does the story change significantly?
are they trying to defend something? what sort of logic are they using? are they appealing to your emotions? do their arguments make sense when put together? are they comparing apples and oranges? are they playing on common fears? are they doing something “special” “just for you”? what are they trying to get you to focus on?

 
12.
DreamsAreality
DreamsAreality

I like this wyrdling - “what are they trying to get you to focus on?”

I can remember a convo with a car salesman, “but it’s only $xxx a month!”. “I’m not buying a car payment, how much is the total price?”, “well if you figure at payments of $xxx a month how much you’ll be saving in gas…”

I got up and left.

NO SALE!! Blonde? may be. Stupid? No.

 


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