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Astrology Consulting And Manipulation
Commenting on the comments
Loonsounds writes re: Manipulation, Neutral Word With Negative Connotation
Elsa, I have spent the night trying to wrap my mind around this post…
-snip -
Absolutely, I can see where I practice certain types of manipulation in various house areas of my chart, but I am having trouble differentiating ‘manipulation’ from having a goal and wanting to meet it, and taking the steps to meet it, and more importantly, it is difficult for me to integrate that concept of ‘manipulation’ into the idea of being practitioner or client in the astrology or counseling process…
Loon, it is probably because it’s simple, not complex. I know you study Vedic astrology and you have probably read James Braha. He has a phrase in one of his books that I love: “Mistake of the intellect”
John Hiatt has a song, Stolen Moments. He writes:
“Well some guy told you that you couldn’t dance
And you been carrying that forever…”
I think most people can relate to that and if you are suffering in this way, you are very apt to continue suffering until and unless someone gets in there and makes an adjustment in your psyche.
Could be a lover who tell you you’re not fat or not stupid after some other man told you were. Could be you hear a phrase in a song, or could be an astrologer who tells you that you think you are not worthy of love but this is a mistake of your intellect…
When the astrologer says that, he or she is manipulating you. There is a knot or blockage and the astrologer goes in and unties, or removes the thing and you go on your way.
I used the picture of the chiropractor because this is the same thing. A massage therapist works a knotted muscle, I work a knotted mind… you are showing up to be manipulated and if you have any luck at all the practitioner will be successful and that girl in John Hiatt’s song… now liberated, goes off to dance freely, with abandon.
I see this occur alllllllll the time. There are hundreds of people who read this blog who live better lives because of it and I know this like I know my name and fact is, every single one of them has been manipulated.
I repeat: Manipulation is a NEUTRAL word with a negative connotation.
25 Responses to “Astrology Consulting And Manipulation”
(I understand that you’re talking about asked-for assistance… 
I’m just commenting on the other kind.)
Well I would say, like any therapy, if you are not ready for it, there is no point. Just like people being forced into rehab - pointless, they will go right back to whatever the drug was.
But when one accepts that they need help in any area of their life, that is when manipulation can start doing it’s magic.
I think I relate to what Rob was saying. I used to be a helper a lot. People didn’t even have to ask, I would find answers for them.
I had to learn to have my own boundaries but equally important was allowing others to have their boundaries. I never offer now unless it’s a loved one, dear friend, that sort of thing. And only if the situation is persisting for them and I actually can help in some way. Otherwise, I just listen to them and let them vent,ask questions to help them think of alternatives themselves, that sort of thing.
I don’t like the thought of manipulating people (even some positive kind of manipulating) into making changes. That is for two main reasons (1) if it all goes wrong, then I’m the one they they blame, and since I don’t feel that I am always right, things will go wrong sometimes (2) I would rather advise and consult, not manipulate, then they end up solving their own problems and becoming less dependent on me.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. This is a case of different types of astrological energy just being completely unable to see things the same way. I would propose that there is no right or wrong answer on this, just different ways of perceiving. Astrologically, I think a lot of cardinal energy is more comfortable manipulating (good or bad) than fixed, or especially mutable. My Pisces energy cannot fathom the idea of manipulating anyone ‘for their own good.”
“My Pisces energy cannot fathom the idea of manipulating anyone ‘for their own good.”
Loon, you have me packaged wrong. I manipulate BY REQUEST. People INVITE me to do what I do and I AGREE to their REQUEST.
There is a big difference between that and how you are characterizing this. You are making it like a rape.
“He screwed her for her own good…”
Is very different then two people consenting to getting in bed together and manipulating each other to their mutual benefit.
If you get in bed with a man and grab his dick, at that point, you are MANIPULATING him.
LOL grab his dick you are manipulating him, pun intended I presume?…yea, I don’t recall anyone ever saying hey! Don’t manipulate my dick!
I am NOT trying to package you, Elsa, you know I am one of your biggest supporters, and I think you know me a little better than think I would package you or anyone else. I am not even saying you are wrong! It’s a use of language that we don’t quite agree on, that is allowable isn’t it? And I am not characterizing anything as rape or force, or brain washing, not sure where you heard that in what I wrote.
You were speaking of your blog, for example, as being something that manipulates people. Well, I support this blog in a major way, as you know, I contribute to your tip jar several times a month to show you how much I appreciate your work and your skills.
I don’t know about anyone else, but there are two major things I get out of this blog.
A. Major entertainment & amusement
B. LEARNING ASTROLOGY
A. To me, either someone is entertaining or they are not entertaining. You are entertaining and a great story teller, and you have a great way of involving the participants in all manner of interesting discussion. Do I feel positively manipulated to be entertained and amused? That would Not be my word, no.
B. You have a unique way of teaching astrology by using a lot of examples and so forth which I find both entertaining (since I love astrology so much) and informed, and becoming more learned. But I don’t feel positively manipulated by this blog in any way shape or form.
sorry if I am pushing some kind of button, which it kind of sounds like I might be, I enjoy an intelligent conversation about linguistics, but not at the risk of causing some kind of ill will here, but no, I do not show up here to be or feel manipulated.
“sorry if I am pushing some kind of button, which it kind of sounds like I might be,…”
Actually, reading this I regret using the word “manipulation” to describe what happens when people read my blog…. I’d forgotten I’d even written that to tell the truth. It was not well thought out so I can’t even defend it… and I am onto something else now so will just have to leave it… a mistake. Nut oh well. I am a human being and hell yes you support my blog - thank you!!
And not to forget the third thing I love about this blog. FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Thank YOU!
No, thank you for speaking UP. The idea I want people to agree with me is one of those hologram things. I have Libra and like discourse, yes? Of course!
See, if people knew their astrology better, I’d not be accused of so many things that are ridiculous.
“She likes those people who kiss her ass…”
Oh yeah. You see how the people around me / in my life do that all time - NOT!
Ass kissers make me incredibly nervous. I am just sure they are setting a charge.:-)
He he. I feel the same way about ass kissers, these are the kind who have turned on me in the most shocking kinds of ways.
On the ass kissing, this thread proves I’m an innocent. While I appreciate tips very much, I will still be myself… always.
Yeah, it’s just the word “manipulation” that people are negative about. It’s really just, er, working someone, neither positive nor negative. Kind of like the phase you use that is always coming to my mind, “everything is a blessing and a curse in equal proportion.”
“I don’t recall anyone ever saying hey! Don’t manipulate my dick!” LOL Loonsounds!!!!
“Yeah, it’s just the word “manipulation” that people are negative about.”
Right, which was my exact purpose in writing this. Manipulation is a NEUTRAL word with a negative connotation!!!!!!!!!
PS - I hate the PC world. Can’t say this, ’cause someone will think that. Can’t do this or someone might think this other. Bunch of control freaks - run your own life!!
How about this: How about LEARN to read / discern / think for yourself!
“If I write that, someone will assume this…” Do you know how stifling this is?
I just refuse to take responsibility for someone’s else’s inability to read. If you want to have an emotional reaction to the word manipulation, then go right ahead but it is not going to stop me from using it. Matter of fact, I have already written (another?O)) tribute to the concept, it’s loaded ready to go live in an hour.
Re: my blog / manipulation, it’s not that I don’t mean what I said> I do mean it, but think it warrants an explanation in this context - I didn’t offer one and I regret it. However, I don’t quite regret it enough to write an explanation because there are 5500 posts on this blog and I trust people to give me the benefit of doubt… or not. Either way, I carry on.
I think that it’s awesome that we can be ourselves here. Please don’t be PC.
I do feel that’s it is REALLY hard to communicate on the internet though. I know for a fact that you can really screw yourself over with e-mail. At least I have.
I wonder sometimes if I am only having a conversation with myself. Does anyone really hear/comprehend what others say?
There is plenty of PC that comes out of me (off an on) with this blog, and where it’s there, I’ll admit it. But the discussion of the meaning and connotations of the word manipulation have no PC connotations. Not every disagreement is about PC, sometimes a disagreement is just that! Is there a place for disagreement on this blog, or, in disagreeing does one risk being called either illiterate or a control freak?
Loon, that was not directed at you and I was going to say so specifically but get this:
I take you to be a careful reader, someone who gives me the benefit of the doubt so I let it fly.
I just wrote another blog about this… hope I don’t get in deeper shit. Really, I don’t see that I have done anything wrong… slight (very slight) carelessness or rush but jeez. There is just no major sin here today that I can see..
K sorry elsa, I thought it was directed at me cuz I thought I was the only one who was disagreeing. Glad to hear it wasn’t directed at me. Yeah, I am a pretty careful reader, thanks
Loon, absolutely not. Went down just like I said it did. I try to be concise as possible and you may be the only one disagreeing publicaly but there is no way you are the only one. This is why I thanked you for your candor.
Saturn in Virgo is just a bitch and a half in this job I do. I am supposed to be concise… but responsible and with Mercury in Libra… find a balance I suppose and I do try… HARD. But really if people are not in a mood or motivated to cut me some slack then they are going to burn me down. But you know what?
I post on average 10 times a day… a good deal of what I write is going to provoke *someone and I take heat you wouldn’t believe So these people who don’t want to cut me slack, I just wonder if they want to put their dick on the bar, yanno?
I’m not perfect.
Also, the soldier is here so I am not all that focused. I’d have not written at all this weekend if he did not have some things he realllly needed to do and do alone so this is another thing to keep in mind. There is a life going on here. I do more than write this blog… waaaay more.
If people want a perfect and polished blog they really ought to go somewhere else. I can’t do it. I’ve got court tomorrow. I’ve got problems coming out of my fuckin’ ears - I am a human being and I just don’t know what more can be expected from me.
It’s so simple. If you (not you, Loon) don’t like my blog then vote with your feet like every other sensible person does. But if you do like what is served here, I would appreciate being given a break not only now and then but routinely. Ask yourself this:
Why would you NOT give me a break? What do you gain from riding my ass anyway because I bet it’s very little (in reality).
I don’t know who would not give you a break! It seems inhuman.
Huge ((((((hugs)))))))) for court tomorrow. There aren’t that many people who understand what that means and from those of us who do — lots of luck and good sleep and clarity of mind and purpose and conscience.
“It seems inhuman.”
Well I don’t think people are inhuman, it’s more that they think I am inhuman!! People just forget there is just one gerbil here making this thing turn.
I am mistaken as a conglomerate - really. People to write me as if I am a corporation with a staff and I am just bewildered.
Elsa…first, I hope you got on well at court today. I don’t always tune into your way of expressing yourself,and sometimes tutut at your swearing ( in a hypocrital way, as I realise how often I swear and decided to forswear swearing for a bit just now, as the grandkids might repeat my colourful remarks whilst driving my car.. to their parents..then I’ll be in FAR bigger trouble than you get when you set the blog alight) but when you say something I don’t get, it stirs me to think more in ways I like, and feel so stimulated by. I just plain old enjoy your blog and am astounded at the energy it must take to sustain it. I have Saturn in Libra, very prominently aspected, so I try to see everyone’s viewpoints, and yes,(Saturn in Libra owns up) I protect myself by trying not to offend, and I (non asskissing) applaud your honest upfront easy flowing commentary on this thing called Life. As one who has Pluto on the descendant squared to Mars in Scorpio,I do think I understand manipulation. My chiropractor does too. It’s a a fabulous term for a deeper discussion.. fabulous.. bring it on, puleeeezze!
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I like this, and agree with it…
Have you ever had the experience where someone tries to do the above without your consent, though? It happens to me all the time; and I can’t get past the fact that I just don’t fucking like it.
On the one hand, this person is trying to help you out. On the other, they’re doing it behind your back and without your consent.. which makes you feel as if you owe them something once the deed is done.
I’m on the fence about my helpers..