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Who Do You Hold Responsible For The Worker Trampled To Death At Walmart On Black Friday?
As the collective.
Worker dies at Long Island Wal-Mart after being trampled in Black Friday stampede
“A Wal-Mart worker died early Friday after an “out-of-control” mob of frenzied shoppers smashed through the Long Island store’s front doors and trampled him, police said.
Read the rest - NY Daily News
The family of the employee who was killed has filed a lawsuit and this has become a debate in my inner circle. Who do you hold responsible for this death?
I see this as a Pluto in Capricorn issue. Are we seeing the shadow side of big business? Is Wal-mart at fault for having enticed throngs of people to their stores knowing full well how people will behave? Is this akin to yelling FIRE in a movie theater for example?
Or are the people at fault and what we are seeing is evidence of the absolute decay of society in that people would run over each other to get an item out of pure greed.
What do you think? If you were the judge who would you hold responsible?
54 Responses to “Who Do You Hold Responsible For The Worker Trampled To Death At Walmart On Black Friday?”
How about dividing the responsabilty pie in equal shares for all involved? Why does it have to be either one or the other? The people who behaved like barbarians, all just for “more stuff”, are just as repsonsable as walmart for putting an unprepared employee at the doors and whipping up this frenzy.
Personally I put the blame on a materialistic soceity, where getting at stuff and money is more important than behaving in a civilized manner.
The customers and Wal-Mart are to blame in my opinion.
I just saw the Wal-Mart documentary, “The high cost of low prices.” It’s amazing. The Walton family donates $6,000 a year to charity, doesn’t provide health insurance or a livable wage to its employees, has a systematically racist and sexist hierarchy, disregards the safety of its customers, among a long list of atrocities. These people are vile and disgusting, sacrificing millions’ lives for the sake of the wealth of a scant few. As for the customers, the mob mentality is partly to blame. The whole situation is just another American embarrassment, and I definitely attribute it to Pluto in Capricorn. I hope one day Wal-Mart will get what it deserves. In fact, this country needs more class warfare and anger. Okay now I’m just ranting. Breathe.
Walmart is responsible for not having a better organized system to handle the throngs of people that were waiting outside it’s doors.
“C - I don’t think it has to be one or the other.”
I should add, I have Libra so consequently it CAN’T be one or the other.
walmart. offering deep discounts on items where supply is limited is just asking for trouble. they needed to hire more security for crowd control. i think the police probably did the best they could when they rolled up and saw 2000 people outside at 3am. also, at a lower level, it’s interesting that the temporary employees were the ones that got the dangerous job of opening the doors. what did mgmt know? just sayin.
I think both are responsible. This isn’t the first time someone has gotten hurt (not sure about killed tho) at one of these sales where throngs of people whip themselves into a frenzy at the thought of saving the almighty dollar…and WalMart is aware of it, I’m sure. They should not have created a situation where this could happen.
On the other hand, those equally guilty shoppers just blow my mind. It’s incomprehensible.
There are pragmatic issues that have nothing to do with ‘fairness’ per se.
1) how do you find all the people involved. there is no way.
2) most of these people don’t have any money to be sued for anyway
3) Walmart is the richest company in the world (or the US anyway) they not only are responsible (there are many legal charges that could be brought against them, one I am thinking is called ‘attractive nuisance’ (any lawyers on Elsa) in other words it IS Walmarts fault anyway!
Walmart created the conditions…correct, it is also safety negligence issues.
I hope this family gets FILTHY RICH off of walmart, it won’t bring their loved ones back, but it is the least walmart can do, and walmart won’t even feel it anyway they are so absurdly wealthy.
pragmatics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess I am really ‘in my Taurus’ today, for a change…I guess that just goes to show it can happen once in a while
i don’t know who’s fault it is. i’m sure walmart did not expect that kind of stampede. i realize they are the ones being sued because they have money, but having lots of money is not by definition a crime. nor do their general corporate practice come into play unless it would demonstrate a culture of neglience specifically.
and i can’t imagine what must have been going on in those people’s heads while they were trampling over others. it’s not like they could have not been aware of it…
i just know the story made me very, very sad. 
I blame all of us. What sort of culture would encourage this type of behavior? The whole black friday thing has always bothered me.
Can you sue American society?
It pisses me off so bad. It’s not that fucking serious people!!!! There are sales all year long! Start Christmas shopping in January if you need a bargain that bad. It’s a sad situation that could’ve been prevented if people weren’t effin maniacs.
I agree with Flip. That story absolutely disgusted me and is just an example of one of the reasons I hate living in a society that is so consumeristic.
I do think Walmart holds some blame, but I think every person who was there as well shares an equal amount of blame.
Those people were acting like animals… all pissed off when the police were trying to tell them they couldn’t shop because of the death…
Risk Management…A company is responsible to create a safe environment for its employees.
Part of HR assessments that are frequently done by an HR on site manager, but you know all of those places recently laid off people like me…
And Walmart has a very corporate level HR that is only too investigate something when forced too.
And get out of unemployment claims by helping the managers document properly or in most cases illegally..
Unfortunately the company is going to blame this on store management put them on a skewier and let them roast.
They will dig out emails or encourage store management to create emails that the manager did these actions, or did not do these actions depending on what the lawyers think will work better
that other stores did these actions, they had no idea that many people showed up..
It is Walmarts fault, The police spoke with the store manager prior about security and told them it was there responsibility. Not just this one particular police deprtment but several around the country so that shows there must have been concern among police departments because there budgets can not pay for security. It sounds like in some cases local police departments were happy to help as inside security but wanted Walmrt to pay for it and Walmart did not..
Now if the store manager sent a few emails telling the corp district manager about the police (who are experts in security) and the district manager had an inadequate response then they will fire him and say they made a change..It just goes up the ladder of command to determine how much money if any this family will be able to sue for..
If the family can proove it was a corp wide plan to save costs on security it would be there saving grace..
As an HR person knowing what I have already read,
the company is currently roasting the store manager..
i went to a black friday sale a couple of years ago. the people stood in line and were friendly with one another. it was very orderly and there was a sense of shared experience. workers from the store came out frequently to check in with folks and let them know what was going on.
i was actually a bit put off because a few at the start of the line grabbed up all of certain products and some held them “waiting for friends” and stuff like that. I thought they were being rude and greedy.
guess i hadn’t seen nothing, huh?
i had no idea beforehand how many people would go. i was shocked at the number of people there. yeah, you can shop all year, but we had a limited budget and the sale would have allowed us to get specific gifts that we wouldn’t otherwise have been able to afford, so that’s why we went. we thought getting up early would be a reasonable trade-off.
we didn’t get what we were hoping to, and decided not to do that again.
That’s the problem Shell. You can’t sue American society.
It’s fine if you guys want to blame the masses instead of the mega corporation Walmart, good luck getting any compensation for the damaged people because you won’t (I mean, if you think that even matters).
If you don’t think they have a right to compensation to something that happened in or near store property, and if you think Walmart doesn’t deserve to be sued for creating conditions that they “know or should have known” would be dangerous, all I say to you is..that is what you think, and that is how you feel.
This will be a multi-million settlement but I hope they refuse to settle and instead go to court, in which case it might even be billions.
I think both the individuals as well as the management team at Walmart. Very sad situation.
I don’t think the individuals will ever receive charges - but I do think that enough needs to be made of this that they realize this is a serious situation. I think Walmart management put someone at the door who had no experience in crowd control and it was poor judgement - . I think the corporation Walmart should be mandated to create corporate wide crowd control policies - maybe make it an OSHA requirement. (Occupational Health and Safety corporations have to adhere to)
The people are responsible, not walmart, even though walmart is stupid to have created these conditions. Come on: people can choose to enter a mob, or to think ‘holy cow, I’d better do my shopping another day, this doesn’t look so good’ (NOT that I think it’s their own fault if they get injured or worse, but you can’t simply put the blame ‘out there’. Nobody was forcing them to be there, right?!). What happened is absolutely atrocious, but suing walmart does not make sense to me. How about promoting some self-restraint? It ain’t stylish to grab and fight for bargains. Have some dignity!
And re loonsounds: That’s also personal but I wouldn’t want a dime of walmart’s money if it were my relative. I think the idea that money provides a compensation in such a situation is an illusion. I wouldn’t want anything to do with mega-bucks, or mega-sales, or mega-stores or mega-settlements or mega anything I don’t think. I would just want to grieve, not fight with anonymous corporations. Anything coming from walmart would probably make me sick!
Ehm, now I’ve just written all of this I realise I could also argue the other case: that walmart is responsible for their customer’s safety. (I have libra too, hehe).
So, in the end: shared responsibility, but with greed as the driving force. On both Walmart’s side (not paying for extra security), and on the customer’s side (fighting for bargains, ugh!)
Our differences are what makes the world go round I guess! And we can’t presume to say what these people are going to do! If it was me, I’d sue their ass off. If it was you, you wouldn’t take that money if they brought it to you on a platter. Elsa draws so many different kinds of people and we are all welcome here, no matter how much we disagree. Gotta love her for that, I do! I wonder if there is any astrology we can see in all this. I did admit my Taurusness…anyone else seeing how their chart plays into their opinion on this?
Since I have a lot of Libra, there’s a lot of fault to go around, IMHO.
The people who were there? They shouldn’t have acted like animals all to save a few bucks…or to buy things that were also offered ONLINE.
Walmart should have been prepared for anything to happen. Sheesh, if people are sleeping in their cars on Thanksgiving Day just to wait to get “bargains”, they should have hired a lot more security!
Our culture? Well, it’s materialistic and shallow, and people (in general, not all, of course) value things over anything else. I can understand wanting to get a good bargain, but I’d never go to the lengths that other people do. I’m 38, and I’ve NEVER been out on Black Friday. I bought everything online.
So who gets the most blame? I’d say the animals who were in the store. Even though the stores created this Black Friday idiocy, those people didn’t have to break down a door to get the junk.
What some other stores do is allow so many people to enter the store at a time Walmart could have done that if they had proper crowd control.
Unfortunately for Walmart, a letigation team will be confronted with picture from newspapers of prior Black Friday’s, Also looking at the amount of volume and sales the store did in the first few hours and compare it to previous years, I would interview the police department
officials and get statements..(If I were trying to document a case for the family)
The police will have a big impact on this case.
Also
Insurance companies require companies like Wal Mart to have some kind of security plan in place.
So Walmart is also having to deal with Workers Comp here as well. That is private insurance you have to carry for workers. The insurance company is just as greedy as Walmart and they are definetly going to not pay this claim so they will also send out an investigative team..
If the workers comp team, and they are a seperate entity, the insurance company refuses to pay out on this case because they find WalMart negligent
that will help the family..
Here is where it can kill the store manager, the head brass will have the store manager fill out the Workers Comp paperwork and this is where the false documentation starts, they will also ask other workers to make statements and the bad ones, they won’t even turn in to Workmans comp..
Fellow employees will be coerced by HR to write the statements…THIS CASE REALLY DEPENDS ON THE EMPLOYEES UNDERSTANDING THE POWER THEY HAVE TO FIX THIS..I WISH I WAS THERE..I WOULD GIVE WALMART A RUN FOR THERE MONEY..JACKASSES
Walmart pays so many thousands of dollars in lawsuits every year and that is added in there operating budgets. It is only when a company reaches a point where the Federal Goverment steps in and requires them to take certain steps and pay out a huge amount of money will they do something.
Re: loonsounds. I have to my shock and horror found out that according to equal housing system I have sun, merc and saturn in 2nd house (according to the housing system astro.com uses it’s all in the 3rd house, which makes more sense to me). That would make me a materialistic person, right, sortof taurusy? But can’t identify with that at all. I really don’t care about the money. I’m not anti-capitalism or anything, but it all seems a bit besides the point.
I’d hold the company and the customers, both, morally accountable.
Aloof corporate behaviour is to be expected… but I can’t help but be disgusted at the people’s behaviour.
I’d place each customer there that morning in community service… but as it is, they can’t (legally) be held accountable. The people at the front of the crowd probably knew what was happening but were pushed forward by the people in the back.
As for the astrology… Jupiter/Pluto, Jupiter/Saturn, and Mars/Saturn… and some Libra 
December 3, 1979. Eleven concertgoers are trampled to death in a rush for festival seating at The Who concert.
Amber… the second house, apart from wealth, also governs our values.
With the Sun, Mercury, and Saturn there, you probably have a clear identity and solid values.
Saturn there would indicate you’re careful with your resources.
Mercury would mean you have a financially inclined mind; also, that your values come about through thought-process, rather than osmosis.
A 2nd Sun can indicate materialism, but more than that, it primarily indicates a concern with values - your personality as a whole is deeply rooted in a value system, or the search for such.
Sorry, I know this was for Loonsounds, but I thought I’d pitch in…
I think that the people are at fault. No matter the conditions set by wal mart, we as humans know better than to push, shove and trample. How do you not know you stepped on someone? Its disgusting. Someone had to know they stepped on someone, why didnt they step aside and see what was happening? Why didnt anyone offer help?
There are too many excuses for bad behavior flying around and its a shame.
LOL Amber…your shock and horror. That’s funny. It’s not terrible! 2nd house symbolizes many things…I have sun/merc there also…mine is actually in Taurus, to boot.
I don’t think it’s beside the point for an astro-blog…people have opinions on what Elsa brings up, and part of that is to look at our astro stuff. I think it is interesting that while we disagree 180 degrees, we both still speak of this topic with a certain amount of passion….see?
Haha.. reality, that reminds me of soccer matches in England.
ok astrologers I just ran a general chart
Hey guess where Saturn is ?
Sounds to me like the lawyers will be reviewing the law…And they are going to look at that festival seating
Saturn is 5 deg away from the Ohio pointits starting to approach and Uranus was at 22 deg scorp with merc at
ok astrologers I just ran a general chart
Hey guess where Saturn is ?
Sounds to me like the lawyers will be reviewing the law…And they are going to look at that festival seating
Saturn is 5 deg away from the Ohio pointits starting to approach and Uranus was at 22 deg scorp with merc at 21 deg scorp
Uranus now is trining
Elsa,
Tell us more about how you think it’s Pluto in Cap. In what sense?
Oh it is definetly Pluto like Elsa stated.
Sometimes planets activate another point in time..
Think of sound waves or any kind of requency wave…It goes up and down. Now what happens when you stick something in front of the wave ? It has a reaction..Pluto is such a catalyst here..
Mars was at 5 deg virgo in 1979 so now pluto is starting to reach its trine..There never fixed the Festival Seating Mess..The Who did it voluntarily..
Umm Walmart is about too have it court ordered..
Saturn gettin a little plutonian..
Yes we are absolutely seeing the shadowey side of Big Business..Walmart could very easily provided every customer in that line with the super buys buy they choose not too..
OK anyone who shops at Walmart I understand.
I don’t if I can at all help it..I was doing a consumer protest as a woman because they don’t pay us the same..So I try too shop at places that have women managers and that has a reputation for being nice to the workers. I have found the workers are usually nicer when they are treated better. I was at a really nice rest with the boyfriend and our waiter was really struggling. He had a lot of tables. He came out of the office and yelled at the employee to work faster and went back in the office at sat. I asked too see the manager. I ripped him a new one and told him to get his pudgy but out there and help that is his job is the manager not to sit on the phone and text message his wife..Oh why can’t I keep my mouth shut..Well he put an apron on and started busing tables..
I just think its Pluto in Cap because all these big companies’ evils and how American greed has backfired or is continuing to backfire are finally showing themselves to the masses. It just makes me so angry, the classist system in this country that embeds greed even in those who can’t afford it through the illusions that they can have it too if it’s on sale, so there’s no problem! It’s just too much for me. Maybe it’s my Aries moon, 11th house emphasis, Neptune everywehre- I just get so angry over this stuff. But I’m falling in love with Pluto in Cap. It’s going to change the world for the better with hard work. And many problems we’ve been complaining about for years that have been frustratingly masked by mass media and our govt. are finally slapping everyone in the face. But I am afraid also. It’s not going to be easy.
While I am disgusted by some of those customers’ behaviour I feel as if Walmart should be responsible. Why not allow a certain amount of people in the store at a given time? They do it that way in Canada. I’ve been in a crush twice before. It’s horrifying. (At music festivals).
I find this disturbing to the extreme. Here Boxing Day sales can be like that (particularly with electronics/TVs/stereos etc) but I haven’t been in at least 10 years, as goddess says “we didn’t get what we were hoping to, and decided not to do that again”.
What’s the fucking point. I just go to the Salvation Army for everything because I regularly have consumer guilt.
(Case in point, I went today and I got a vintage %100 wool Italian cycling jersey, a Scottish Cashmere sweater, and a leather leopard print belt, as well as 10 mason jars to store my paints in for….wait for it! $15!!! I’m also a Taurus so I have the major boner for nice fabrics etc. but I buy USED. I’ll wait all year for the right vintage cashmere to come my way.)
Shell you’re right on it: I worked in retail…I worked at Eddie Bauer and was disgusted to have to stay late to put “Boxing Day Sale” signs on everything…watch people show up for their bargains, and guess what? THE PRICES WERE THE SAME.
Lis I hear you about the online thing but a lot of people don’t have credit cards to shop online.
I just want to add to that I feel like my experience is coloured by the fact I live in a city…I am able to support local grocers and get more things second hand that a person can’t in a small town. My sister lives in a small town and buying at a small mom and pop operation isn’t realistic for her financially, especially now as she may lose her home as there is no fucking work anywhere.
Oh well, she has Pluto ASC trine her 8th House Moon and she rebounds harder and faster than anyone I’ve ever met.
I feel like the rural/urban/suburban thing is never address enough.
My daughter went to school with a member of the Walton family. The family was very down to earth and generous to the community.
I just saw an article that stated that a Superwalmart store in a community lowers food prices nearly 4%. This has a profound impact on lower income families.
The entire concept of these Black Friday sales is obnoxious.
I’m surprised that so many people put the majority of the blame on Walmart. I get the points ~ that they created the environment and he wasn’t trained, etc. But seriously? Those people crushed a man to death and then were pissed off because they couldn’t finish their shopping. Just because you’re in a situation that LETS you act like an animal doesn’t mean you HAVE to act like an animal.
I think Wal-Mart needs their asses sued off and I think the police need to view the video and hold the people accountable who crushed that poor man who was prob making minimum wage. That is total bullshit!! All this over retail items give me a break!!!
“Sensing catastrophe, nervous employees formed a human chain inside the entrance to slow down the mass of shoppers.”
The accountability begins and ends there.
What dumbass jackass organized a human chain against an unruly mob? Are they trained riot police? I doubt it!!
Its true, the bahavior of the mob is unconscionable, and it shows just how savage and ignorant our society actually is beneath its electronically generated veneer of education and sophistication… but placing your employees in harms way like that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
The supervisor who ordered the human chain to protect the store is the person whose head should roll. (provided the newspaper has given us accurate information)
NO one is defending the other human beings in this madness…everyone involved in this situation, if they knew what was happening, well, they will meet their maker some day won’t they? And they’ll have some explaining to do.
The point is the people who can be found and sued be found and sued are the people who can be found and sued and THANK GOD they are the ones with the money…and that is all anyone can do.
It is tragic and pathetic, all of it. No one is saying otherwise.
I’m also a Taurus so I have the major boner for nice fabrics etc.
That was spit-out-my-drink funny, Kashmiri!
Title of Sam Walton’s Book made in America
(now made in china) Walmart is a monopoly.
Its alway nice to read company models and then look ay the unsaid corporate culture of an organization…
Sam died in 1992 and his vision of walmart ended
Look at his quotes..
We studied him in college
We’re all working together; that’s the secret.
Sam Walton - Work - Success
Each Wal-Mart store should reflect the values of its customers and support the vision they hold for their community.
Sam Walton - Customers - Commitment
Outstanding leaders go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it’s amazing what they can accomplish.
Sam Walton - Leadership - Belief - Encouragement
High expectations are the key to everything.
They teach you this crap in college and then welcome to corp America. They email you a procedure and then verbally tell you disregard that email do this instead. Its a chess game everyday..NEVER DO ANYTHING A BOSS WILL NOT EMAIL YOU DIRECTIONS FOR..Because they come to HR with a case and they can show you diregarded a directive. Be Careful…
Kashmiri–Do you also love the history of used clothes? I think “hmmmm….I wonder what event this was worn to?? Did she have a good night wearing it? Did she meet her soul mate?? Maybe she lost her virginity the day she wore this thing?” I don’t know, I’m weird like that.
Jessica I’m glad you thought so, I thought about that after I posted it and wondered if it was too graphic…and if people accept it more from me because I’m a lady? (A classy lady? phhhht)
Shell I don’t know!!! I really don’t know if I do, Elsa’s asked questions of this nature before and I’m like, nope.
I guess when I see Elsa ask “fault” there are two parts to this. Legal fault and moral/ethical fault. Legal fault lies with Walmart as it was quite forseeable. Moral fault lies with the people, Walmart, and our culture.
Like I said on a previous post thank you to Elsa for being willing to stand up and say “this is bull..” and thanked her for setting boundaries. Very rarely do we have a community “policing” the behavour of it’s members. For a lot of reasons, obviously, but mainly because 1. community is fragmented 2. no one feels empowered to stand up and say “that’s not right” They cower and watch someone being mugged or beaten in the street and are surprised when no one calls the cops. This is the same type of thing. No individual moral responsibility.
But then again, we, as a culture, don’t find anything immoral about stealing resources or life from other animals or other people or our future children. I say that, because, if we did find something immoral about it, we wouldn’t be living like we do and there would be a major cultural sea-change towards only necessary consumption to live.
the bystander effect is well-reasearched in social psych - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
i’ve been thinking about this more, and it occurred to me that once an excited crowd starts moving, there would be no stopping even if many individuals in the crowd did want to stop. when you’ve got masses of people moving on all sides, you can either move to or be crushed. it probably happened very quickly.
my only hope here is that enough attention is paid to this that perhaps we can prevent it from happening more.
It happened in India very recently at a religious event, and it happens pretty frequently in India, and in a major way. You’re right, it becomes a phenomenon in it’s own right, there may have been some people who were in the middle of it, saw what happened, were completely powerless over the situation, and may be traumatized forever for having seen and experienced something that was out of their control like that. So there could be living people left behind who might even suffer from PTSD which is not only restricted to battle ground and military scenarios. Walmart may end up with law suits from these people too, and I think they probably will. Can you imagine how awful it would be to be shoved (by hundreds) into (and over) some frail person or a child … or whatever?
i loathe wal mart.
ethically, the decision to walk over a plane of glass above another human being is the responsibility of each and every person who stepped on that glass. no more, no less.
legally, i hope they string the suits up (ok, metaphorically.) there’s certainly a case for corporate negligence here.
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Walmart should be sued every which way there is to sue for this wrongful death. Small consolation for the family and loved ones that Walmart has such DEEP POCKETS but this family should not settle until they have had the best LAWYERS in the country looking into this case for them. DON’T SIGN ANYTHING people, this is a multi-million dollar lawsuit.