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Regarding My Low Character And Bitchiness, Saturn In Virgo Requires A Response…
Ask the collective
“Never Complain, Never Explain”
I don’t know about the complaining part of this but I do know that ever since Saturn went into Virgo I feel compelled (at times) to explain myself which is not really normal for me. I can see the lesson in this, though. If I am going to write, it seems important I become privy as to where I fall short. For example if I post something and no one understands it, then the problem must be mine.
Anyway, I just explained (defended) myself on the Church’s Fried Chicken Girl blog in response to comment(s) max left and want to state plainly I do not post this to single him out. I like max a lot, I think everyone here does but unfortunately for him he hit on something I was going to write about anyway today and so now he is going to be used.
I think max has or is a Scorpio so hopefully he will understand I am using his energy so that I can make this one specific point and it not larger than that or personal to him. Otherwise I guess he will hate me into eternity which of course… well they have a club that meets on that once a week on that so if this happens at least he will have lots of company. But anyway this is from the comment I left:
No max - thanks for the judgment (NOT) but that’s not what happened.
We broke up, I dated someone, I got sick of them, I called him, we got together, slept together, decided to be together - never really wanted to be apart anyway.
I took a shower (this was the first time we saw each other so always bliss to be back together) and this girl happened to knock on the door. He answered it, I was there in a towel… she never came back although he did go to her place and return her baby’s shoes.
And this is the point I want to make or rather the question I wanted to ask today: Do you cut people slack?
Because it has occurred to me that your quality of life is probably very dependent on the answer to that question and I’ll tell you how the comments on this blog apply.
There are several thousand pieces on this blog. I wrote several thousand pieces on my original blog. I also wrote a 650 page book, LIVE. I mean I wrote that thing in blog-sized pieces with people reading as I went and it seems to me my character (whether you like it or not) is well established. So then something like this happens and it’s baffling.
How do I all the sudden become a ball-busting bitch who screws around, dominates men, plays unfairly, acts a tyrant and so forth? How in the hell does that happen? Who would want anything to do with me?
Now I can see how that particular story bit could be misconstrued but don’t I have some credit by now? Do I not have some money in the bank?
Would it be possible for someone to read something and say, “I don’t like how that sounds but I know Elsa and she’s blah, blah, blah so I am pretty sure I’ve misunderstood something here.” Is that possible?
Of course it is possible so why doesn’t it happen more often. Because here is what I know:
If you are looking for proof someone sucks, you are going to find it. It doesn’t mean it’s real, it just means you’ll find it.
But it seems to me there ought to be a point where you know a person well enough you don’t do this anymore. Having gathered your mountain of evidence as to the goodness (adequateness?) of their character, when you come across something that is out of whack you respond by looking for something other than their horrible deficit to explain the problem. Does this make sense to anyone?
Here’s the question:
Is it possible for people to have proved their character to you and earned the benefit of the doubt or do you constantly have an eye out for evidence of their failing?
33 Responses to “Regarding My Low Character And Bitchiness, Saturn In Virgo Requires A Response…”
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When I read that exchange I thought that perhaps Max didn’t read your original post very carefully because EVERYTHING you said in response was there in the post. Do people just skim past huge chunks? I can’t remember ever reading you really wrong. And yes, I think I would assume I was misunderstanding something before I would assume you’ve suddenly become something different than you seemed.
I do try to give people credit. It’s not something that I do naturally, but I am trying to cultivate it now because I am sick of being miserable and suspicious.
I wonder if one of the reasons that this may happen to you in regard to your blog is that we (the readers) are often told that we know little about you and that what we think we know is a hologram. I know that in my case I took it to heart, so I tend not to make judgments, but I also tend not to say, “This is Elsa’s character and I know that for sure,” because I’m pretty sure that I don’t know for sure! Now, I know you are a good and reliable person dedicated to service. But I know this because I see it come through AND you verbally verified it. So I know that it is not the hologram you were talking about, see? Does that make sense?
This Scorpio Rising is always looking for good in everyone, and I always give credit where credit is due. Although there are maybe one or two character traits that are deal breakers for me.
I think you are cool as all hell, your stories and advice prove it.
I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, even before they may have earned it. This does not say I don’t see fault when it’s there, but I try really hard not to judge anyone b/c in most instances, I do not have all the details or know what really happened. As for your post, I didn’t really think anything of it (in re: you being in the towel, etc.), but then I’ve been reading you since 2001. So yeah, you’ve got more than enough “credit” built up in my “bank”.
p.s. it’s generally hard for me to think of you as anything but awesome…c’mon! Anyone w/a smile as bright as yours just couldn’t be bad!!
I’ve noticed with your writing, you often post a title for each blog, and part of that one was ‘Mine: Past emotional manipulations revealed’ so…that was what that was about, I guess?? I didn’t think too much about it other than. ‘Well, it ain’t me.’
I only ever really pick apart someone I am fighting or fucking. Pardon my horrible language. No, I don’t have Mars/Mercury (which is where I would assume the picking part would come from).
Or…Mars/Moon? I dunno–I’m scratching my head on this one.
christy - reading your comment I wonder if what I wrote was understood by anyone at all. The only comment left was by max… I think I must have made no sense but to tell the truth, I don’t care enough right now to care which is good. Because if I did care, it might impede my writing but as it is, I see it this way:
If I make no fucking sense 1% of the time, so what?
::laughs maniacally::
I’ve revised that adage to “Never Apologize, Never Explain.” Works for me and applies very well to the 99% of the world I come in contact with that does not have my best interests at heart.
I usually give people the benefit of the doubt! I find little currency in debating with people or winning people over to my point of view, or having someone be right or wrong. Sometimes I like to be like Rick from Casablanca and have no point of view to defend.
Elsa -I usually understand where you are going with your blogs but if I don’t understand them I usually enjoy them anyway!
Sometimes I make no fucking sense and I am ok with that too. Sometimes the people that answer on your blog make no sense to me and I am OK with the fact that they think they make perfect sense and I don’t understand it. If they were sitting in my livingroom talking with me I think that I could ask them enough questions that their point of view could be clear as a bell.
Ding, ding ,ding. I also have this internal clock that tells me when it’s time to move on.
I didn’t comment because I thought it was a good story that showed how the two of you work, just like all the others. How the possessiveness or what-have-you is simply part of the love and then it plays out. There was nothing in the story that hurt anyone so I had no qualms and totally don’t see what Max read into it. It’s only when you don’t love someone when these urges to possess etc. become destructive. And from what I read the respect you give each other holds it in check. Of course there are primal responses and dances to lure someone to us who has something we want, and to chase away those who may pose a threat. That’s normal. It’s lack of love that’s the problem and interferes with otherwise normal mating energy. Could you imagine never getting close to another person? Never getting close to the fire? A fire that can burn you if it’s not with love, or burn off/heal old wounds if it is?
wow, Liz, I like that!
Well the point of this story was the title. He allowed me to think (then and now, meaning 2003) that he’s had a sexual relationship with this girl.
Now personally, I take all kinds of things from that. For example he was a pretty sophisticated 20 year old. And boy when that girl came to the door I was SLAYED. I thought I was face to face with what was or had been my replacement and here she turns out to be a decoy.
Does no one see this is a hell of thing to find out 30 years after the fact?
I pretty much assume that the people I like are wonderful. I do notice faults (virgo moon) but when I point them out, its to hear what they have to say about it or because if I was acting in a similar manner I’d want to be called on it so I could correct it, its rarely or never ‘oh hey I noticed x and so obviously you’re a shit bag’
No i totally believed this story straight up. Cause i had a Taurus boyfriend once who pulled the same kind of crap. I guess you get used to being treated a certain way and then you just like start to accept it or whatever. BUt thats how jealosy and game playing works it Always comes back at you.
Well, I am constantly giving people the benefit of the doubt, even without building up good will. I might tend towards being a bit of a sucker sometimes, but you know, there are worse things than thinking people are good, their motives are understandable, and that they are doing their best. I don’t think I even believe that anyone would want to hurt me intentionally, though statistically I suppose it must be true or has happened.
some people are out to prove their own versions of cynicism i think, nevermind reality.
*shrug*
i always recognize there’s more to a story than what i hear. that’s why questions are handy.
i’m generally more likely to assume on the positive side (and get disappointed when i’m wrong) and i know people who always assume the worse… or a re looking for a reason to, i think, maybe, in order to justify a sort of bitterness with reality… i think it’s a shadow side of virgo- you can always find something “wrong” if you look hard enough.
Well, I’ve misunderstood you plenty of times, though I was only asking for clarification and not justification. I decided not to comment any more (except for just this once!), but out of consideration and not out of spite. You have so much going on in your life, you do not need to waste your precious breath and fingerstrokes explaining things to the likes of me, who are only really talking to and at your hologram anyway.
Elsa, I got that story perfectly, so you made sense to me.. it’s quite something to believe that an event happened a certain way all those years ago and then to discover it really wasn’t that way at all.. and that someone had actively manipulated you..
.. and I am too busy working on myself to go looking for things to judge others on… so no I don’t seek out other peoples failings.
“Do you cut people slack?”
No matter the story, what we are is human. But at times humans exceed themselves. Jump off the deep end. That’s when they emulate the gods and it could be it’s because the gods are working the humans over pretty good.
You asked, “How do I all the sudden become a ball-busting bitch who screws around, dominates men, plays unfairly, acts a tyrant and so forth?”
Your human side is asking the questions. Your human side needs compassion, some slack.
The ball-buster is from the opposite stance: Only a goddess may play at this game. The point is that we are commanded at times to be “played” by the gods. They string us tight, and we vibrate to their chord. We put on boots and go kick some human ass, but it’s not “us,” it’s the compulsions of the gods.
We need each other to stay human. We need a way of clarifying the role that the “spiritual” (and that label does not belong to the gods at all!) and the archetypal compulsions which rise out of what appears to be a human, but in fact is a god on parody of being a human.
Shakespeare saw all of life as a stage upon which these actors would sling their shit. It’s easier to see it in a play from the 15th century that an edgy woman might bite someone’s head off, the contrasts and the characters seem situated correctly. Yet, these plays are still being performed over 500 years later. Why? We can tell the characters apart, locate the gods (the excesses) and sense the part of the story that is ours.
Ever the battle wages on! Humans, zero. Gods infinity. Alcoholic rage or brain-addled megalomania, take your pick: These are the neuroses that can only be talked about as the gods themselves. Who do they think they are?
I remember sometimes my own drunkeness (it’s been 20 or 30 years since the last time I exceeded myself) and the behavior (shameful) of a goddess: spouting herself in language of The World At My Command, then bending over to barf. The human becomes ill, has a headache. The goddess finds some other alcoholic and the play goes on, the lines are mechanically adhering to the role, no matter who has too many gin martinis.
I’m using imagery of extremes to clarify that the battle rests between these two sides of the experiences of dealing with the archetypes. Humans must stay aware and prepared to do battle with the gods. Saturn will weigh us down, and Uranus might tip our cart. Neptune will bring it to zero, and Jupiter will bitch-slap by retrograde. Humans must develop a language for describing the toy that we are when dealing with the play by the gods. Could that be astrology?
The true quest is “How to remain human?”
Yes, Elsa, we can cut some slack. We can stay human. This is the part that isn’t a a god. This is the warm and human stuff that doesn’t need anything more than life-sustaining slack. We just battle the gods and blame something. It’s time we cut that slack for the ones who need it most: ourselves.
cf
“you do not need to waste your precious breath and fingerstrokes explaining things to the likes of me, who are only really talking to and at your hologram anyway.”
::shakes head::
Avery - you owe a few people around here and apology but in lieu of that, there is always this eh? I don’t know what happened to you but it would be nice if you got off the space shuttle - You are missed around here.
I feel similar to what Avery says - for me -Idecided some time ago that it’s probably not such a good idea to try to fit all the pieces together because I can’t see the whole anyway, you have too many things going on. I think I misunderstand very often, but I’m never quite sure when, the irony. But after reading for 6 years I do think I have grasped your main personality, hologram or no, and you have the benefit of the doubt, no doubt whatsoever. (and I didn’t need 6 years to come to that conclusion).
It’s funny to see the dynamic though - years ago I had the feeling I really ‘got’ your blog, and I learned a lot. At the same time there were many people who said they didn’t get it at all & discussions. Now, I feel I often misread your posts - and that as a consequence you may misread my answers, while others seem to get it completely. strange huh.
Yes it means a lot. I assume that everyone has good & bad in them.. and that everyone has done things theyre proud of & things theyre not so proud of. I certainly wouldnt want someone judging me based on one event in my life. In this case though Elsa, what did you do that was so horrible? You broke up with a guy (who hasnt) you went after what you wanted..its not like either of you were married for goodness sakes!
Wow I wasnt sure I was going to post but Im going to because I have a different response.
Honestly when I read the story I loved it, it was funny and witty but I did in the back of mind have a similar thought to max. I saw he’s first comment (the other following comments had not been posted). I however refrained from posting myself because Max had said something I had questioned myself, I figured I didnt know the whole story and if what I thought was true, obviously people mistakes and this was something I could learn from (Being a scorpio and getting jealous myself). Plus that was not really the point of the actual story.
As for cutting people slack? It depends Im a scorpio & have a packed 8th and from what I know people are complex and like some quote I read somewhere which rang so true for me is that “You dont ever know people you experience them.” I know this wont apply to other peoples philosphies on life but it explains for me that somedays I just dont trust and judge and somedays & some people I cut slack for what ever reason.
Anyways this whole misunderstanding has made for great disscussion, thought and exchange of energy which in my opinion is what makes this blog and its community what it is - Fascinating and interesting.
I didn’t read the original post. Probably will now
I can say that I get this from a certain friend in my life, who I can’t cut any more slack. Meaning that she will misunderstand something, freak out at me, yell, think i’m a monster, etc. For the record, she is an early Sag sun with tons of Scorpio (incl merc and venus)– So this is just to say i understand how it is to be on the receiving end of such things from friends who you thought “knew you by now”– and would give you the benefit of the doubt.
My cancer stellium and venus in leo really doesn’t deal well with “friends” yelling at me and thinking i’m a monster–
Beyond that, and i’m saying this in general, not specifically to the baby shoe story, women tend to get really myopic. I mean, when it concerns a man. And i know i can’t explain this how i really want to say it, but i believe there is always grey area. It’s never so purely black and white. And so often, women blame women. And sometimes there is no one to blame. No one at all. It’s not always about “morality” — Life is complicated. Show me one simple male/female relationship (at least one that is touched by romance or sexuality)
Sorry if i’m making no sense
Also, i’ve noticed in your responses to some of the advice letters, that you keep your heart open and want them, it seems, to do the same. Cutting people slack, giving people rope… staying open–
If i hadn’t of stayed open, i would have lost someone precious to me, a long time ago. As well, if i had followed what other people think, all their received notions of right and wrong and how relationships should be……
Don’t you have Uranus in the 7th? Or am i getting that wrong. I have it transiting my 7th now. I think that placement gives someone an insight into 1:1 that others just can’t see–
As for the hologram. Well, i have venus square neptune and venus opp saturn…
It sucks to not be seen clearly. My first astrologer once told me that no one would get me, or just that it would take a while… (also because of my pluto in the 1st). So it’s really precious when people do…..
A - I do have a 7th house Uranus on the very cusp of the 8th and have never heard that interpretation. I also do not consciously stay open when writing advice - My method is very simple, I do my very best!
I find if I meet this standard I can deal with whatever the fall out. Basically I answer people the same way I would answer my best friend.
My interpretation of Uranus in the 7th has to do with Uranus (or Aqu) being innovative, to say the least, seeing things others can’t see, extra insight (and using astrology). And in the 7th, well then i see it as applied to those 7th house areas of life.
It’s probably part of what makes you good at what you do, giving advice to people with relationship “issues,” esp if that Uranus has some nice (or interesting) aspects to it!
A. - I get you loud and clear and I can see it now, brilliantly. I have Jupiter in aspect to Uranus so blurt obviously. Uranus is conjunct my n node and my vertex, LOL. And astrology?
All that is in line with the degree CEO Carter’s associates with astrology.
Ha ha ha ha, I think I am an astrologer all right.
(That last was Jupiter Uranus laughing - hee!)
Oh bother I think it ate my post oh well wasnt meant to be lol (Mercury retro and his mischeivious ways)
No wait it didnt it was just slow doh
Elsa, what I meant was that I was thinking: it’s a story, and I read it. And since it didn’t personally invovle me or someone I’m screwing…
On second glance I noticed the title of the blog and briefly wondered how exactly it related but I’m not one to split hairs and am aware of how your stories tend to progress organically, so I figure if there were dots to connect they’d come later.
I have learned to cut people slack. A behavioral modification I have made since I decided to live some compassion. I used to feel free to rip into people whom I thought were being blind to their own faults. Now I generally retreat, do the character evaluation you mentioned, Elsa, and if the problem continues to bother me or be unresolvable, I let that friendship or association gently dissolve. Ever since my moon and Mars progressed out of Libra, I’ve been much less judgmental about things that aren’t important. It also has to do with finding a sense of self-worth that wasn’t based on other peoples’ opinions of me– something I struggled with for most of my life.
Elsa, I don’t think you have low character or bitchiness. I think you react to things quickly, sometimes quickly putting up defenses (probably an effect of having some Leo).
But maybe he didn’t know you didn’t know he didn’t know you didn’t know. I don’t know. just a thought.
This has been a great blog! Thanks Claire-France. Cheers Pixie Dust.
Right back atcha, spinner!