14
‘Splainin’ Myself With Saturn In Virgo - “I Want To Be A Good Man” Redux
Commenting on the comments
This is in response to a comment from Kingsley. He specifically says he does not know the situation with the soldier so I did not write this to defend myself but I did want to explain because the situation Kingsley outlines and my situation are very different. Here is his comment:
“I am not sure about the soldiers situation Elsa however I had an ex double Virgo wife who helped me greatly. After doing groups and courses and diets and attitudinal stuff I thought I had achieved something wonderful for myself. I had. Trouble was, in the process I forgot about myself, I was tuning into what my (obsessed) ex wife wanted me to be. Every time I got “improved”, she would need to find another thing in me to fix. Its like I was never going to be “just right” for her. It was like I was never going to just “be me”. I was on a please her journey to a perfect kind of hell. “
Kingsley - the soldier’s situation is he is a Catholic and he is driven (most primarily by memories of his past lives) so when he comes up with something like this: “I am going to try to be a good man”, I have little idea where it comes from other than it is deep and no doubt steeped in history.
I have no agenda for him. I never have as I was taught as a child that you’ve no right to run another person’s life. I took this instruction to heart and besides that I just don’t think I have this gene. Witness the fact I respected his drive and desire to go into SF when we were kids although it left me on the side of the road. Not many teenagers would have handled that the way I did and I am kind of proud.
In no way is the soldier lost in a relationship with me. What he said originated in him. Basically it was his pronouncement. “I want to be a good man..” It was what he had come to based on the deep contemplating he does and my message back was “What the hell are you talking about.. what’s that mean,” and also, “I am not going to do that…” meaning be all solemn, because that was his attitude when he made the comment.
He is basically talking to God, see. He is telling me his promise to God and meanwhile P is doing other things, like bootling and basically he interrupts her with these deep things. And then I feel I ought to return the gesture but of course I have no way to do so because I am not him.
When we were young, it did us in because it was so intimidating. He is intimidating. And I’ve got Venus in Leo and can act “sort of” but I have no way to pretend I am steeped in centuries of religion the way he is. I mean, he is just from another world. He has very little connection to 2008 and once you get that the rest is very easy to understand.
I never have time to write all this stuff but 2 days later I was asking him if he thought I was a toadstool because I did not have drives the way. How come I don’t want to constantly strive and go over my behavior? How come I pretty much take it for granted God thinks I’m just fine while he is constantly in intense dialogue?
So you see the situation here is just as he describes it. He is a serious geezer and I am far less fettered, although his Saturn does weigh on me making me feel I should be more like him. More fettered and solemn, that is. More adult! So feeling this way - that he is superior, I would not be prone to telling him what do to and add that to the fact I was born and bred against telling someone what to do or offering unsolicited advice and I can assure you the soldier is not being micromanaged. I don’t do it to my children, I am sure as hell not going to do it to another adult.
Do you try to fix people?
20 Responses to “‘Splainin’ Myself With Saturn In Virgo - “I Want To Be A Good Man” Redux”
Does the soldier have Sagittarius placements?
Hi Elsa, thanks for explaing that my story is different to the Soldiers. I admire the kind of relationship you have with him. Its interesting that you say about his Catholic background and mention ‘past lives’. I believe that many of my past lives and early childhood experiences tended to emerge in my relationships. Mother and nurturing issues to be precise; Pleasing and being perfect for her.
Anyway that is my stuff and my self disclosure about my experiences. It was the pollishing silverware comments etc, that I seemed to respond to in the post. I like the way your blogs can trigger that kind of “remembering”. As I understand it, my comments have nothing to do with the ways of the Soldier or the ways of Elsa P. Perhaps I am comfortable enough here, at your blog to recline into the couch and freely associate to my own stories.
It is your stories which seems to evoke these types of responses and not only from me either. I think I have said before about your own ability to achieve something helpful in your unique writing process. In that way I guess you are well experienced to understand these types of visceral identifications by posters (me) rather than hear judgemnets of any kind.
Thanks Elsa
Kingsley
No. Though I have had two close friends say that I make them want to be better people which totally and completely baffles me. Is there a difference between having high standards and trying to change someone?
Oh, I see, Kingsley. He is telling me to primp up with the polish, huh? See, I was so reactive to silver not gold… well hell. I feel about 5 years old all the time which is very confusing, you can imagine. Because this blog is not written by a 5 year old and yet.
I am very glad you are comfortable here. I enjoy your comments and I am learning from you.
Charlotte - I think having high standards is personal. Imposing them on another person is where it gets sticky.
For example some people think you should wear make up to leave the house. That’s fine, just don’t expect me to do it.
“Elsa you should wear makeup like I do.”
“I don’t want to wear makeup.”
“Well you should and I am going to do everything in my power to get you to wear makeup…”
Personally, I think that right there is insanity. I mean it. I really think that is crazed.
Perhaps that is a good thing Elsa, to write like an adult in a five year old way. Or visa versa. Thats a skill to relate to the child while the adult is functioning at the same time. Much goes on in that relating space indeed. (psychodynamically)
kingsley
Having high standards is ok. How others react or respond to what that means for them is always interesting. A person has no control over how others may interpret or respond. It may be “them” who feel that need to ‘fix up’ in relation to being motivated for certain expectations in life. In other words they could be responding from a child part of their personality. (rebellion to change or self improvement)
Do you really think its possible to change others?
kingsley- your comment, ‘perhaps i am comfortable enough here at your blog to recline into the couch and freely associate to my own stories’ is brilliant! i feel that way too.
And on having high standards is ok, i remember when i was riding high and living large at age 29 and we moved into a new house. in the office on the corkboard the previous owners left a little note that said, ‘if all else fails, lower your standards’ this was right before i was laid low by my saturn return….and now i can laugh and appreciate the prophetic message.
i guess sometimes, as with a lot of things, high standards are a moving target.
I definitely used to try to fix people… and I was never taught that was wrong. I grew up in this house where everybody was broken and nobody knew what to do, so I set myself up as the fixer, and because people responded to that, I figured that was what I was meant to do.
Took me years to figure out that helping other people is more complicated than rebuilding them into what I could never get my family members to be.
I still have an urge to help people, so I have to be careful with my thinking and my reactions.
I don’t think it’s possible to change others. But I have noticed over the years that one of the main sources of problems people have is not accepting who they are (which is a big part of what Elsa’s blog is about). A lot of therapy is based in this: Who are you and how do you deal with being that person? What do you need to know in order to live as the person you are?
People can seem to change, when they are really only turning into who they always were.
I think you make some very good statements ewinbee. Especially the last one. Perhaps as children we conformed and adapted to our environment to survive emotionally and then we spend the rest of our adult lives trying become who we really were in the first place. I also like spinners prophetic experience with expectations and moving targets.
cheers
kingsley
I try to never fix anyone but me. If there is a problem then it must come from me. As far as advise I advise and it always comes with a disclaimer….If what I say resonates with you then use it. Take what you can use and discard the rest because what works for me won’t work for everyone…and I usualy say that or try to.
I guess high standards is the wrong word in regards to other people and relationships. Rather, it is more like challenging someone. Isn’t that (reportedly) a good thing? Saying to someone, “I know you can do better” isn’t the same as “You must be more like this or like that” is it? It’s a fine line I suppose, where one can make you evolve and grow whereas the other makes you feel like crap.
Charlotte, I think what your friends mean is that you set a good example for them and they would like to be more like you - thus they say you “make them want to be better people”. Or maybe you see the positive traits in them and, by bringing that to light, make them see how good they could be.
My Sweetie it like that. When I’m with him I feel encouraged to be the best I can be, but he has never done anything that made me feel “not good enough”. In fact, he is just the opposite - encouraging, complimentary and constantly telling me how great I am. LOL, I wish I were half as wonderful as he thinks I am. I think we both suffer from having very high self-expectations. It is wonderful to have someone who thinks I’m perfect - so it makes me want to be perfect (if that makes sense). No pressure, no expectations, but an underlying sense of encouragement which is great for avoiding my Taurean stubbornness.
I’m with you, Kathy. When people tell me I’m awesome, it definitely makes me want to live up to that expectation, but it doesn’t make me feel bad unless they obviously seem to have some kind of weird halo on my head.
But people just flat out saying I could do better? I wilt under that. It focuses me too much on what’s wrong, and it’s so much easier to be a good person when you’re looking at what’s right about who you are.
I learned the hard way that you can’t fix anyone. Despite your best efforts, they just wind up creating another bad situation for themselves. I guess the bigger lesson I learned was that my desire to fix others was just a big distraction from my own issues in life that needed my attention.
Having been born and raised as a Catholic, gone to their schools (I escaped as soon as was humanly possible), I can relate to some of where Soldier’s coming from. This religious patriarchy was formed in the Middle Ages and controlled all of Europe for at least 1,000 years. That’s a lot of DNA coming down the pike.
You learn right from the git go that you are born a sinner and the guilt trip continues on and on. So many lttle misteps along the way can land you in hell. Some of the nuns used mental torture, i.e. they had an “excabobalator” in the convent basement that could tear kids limb from limb! I also think the Church instilled the idea that poverty was a virtue as one more way to keep people down.
I do not try to other fix people. I’ts so easy to see what other people could or should be doing differently, but I try remember that nobody, myself included likes to be given advice not asked for, as you say, Elsa. But maybe I’m in denial. It’s possible to empower others without control or ulterior motives?
not worth the effort.
unless they’re hurting me and i want to try to keep the relationship (not too common, but it happens.)
then i try to fix the relationship. in conjunction with the other person.
i’m not sure if that’s the same thing.
and, i teach. but that’s illustration and modelling and my students at least in theory chose to learn what i’m teaching.
Charlotte - Good call on the fine line.
Get A Consultation
I'm available for consultations! You can schedule a consultation by phone or a consultation by email. You can also read what clients have to say about my consultations. Thanks, I look forward to working with you. :) - Elsa P
More
Recent Blog Comments
- Mari: Mostly, I have never been interested in sex (my poor ex). Wh...
- Jilly: kashmiri - she didn't get symptomatic until after grad schoo...
- Jilly: I like standing in line (though I have to sit in line now ha...
- LM: LisLioness - I was 25, too, and I have Venus-Pluto conjunct ...
- kashmiri: Petra I have several I will never read. Message me privately...
- Petra: I want some Stephen Arroyo books....
- Elsa: Ha ha, meet my sister's Sadge Moon... conjunct Jupiter. B...
Recent Board Posts
No. Well, I’ve tried in the past but have been put in my place, especially because I can see the profoundness of such a statement as ‘I am not you.’
I tried to fix my alcoholic ex, and was put in my place…which was a good thing as in the process I was able to make an exit.