Aggressive People Who Believe Themselves Passive: Astrologer Claire-France Perez On The Unconscious Mars
Astrology in real life
Last night my friend and astrologer, Claire-France Perez said something interesting. She is a double Gemini and can’t help but be interesting. She is particularly interested in women and Mars and in fact this is how we became friends. I was writing on her astrology mailing list some years ago and she was attracted how overtly I express Mars energy and that was that.
We both feel that many women (and some men) have problems expressing their Mars energy (their anger, their hunter instinct, etc) and that it wreaks all kinds of havoc in their lives and in the world. But last night she came up with a new phrase…. “the unconscious Mars”.
“Yes, many women have no awareness of their Mars at all,” she said. “They have no idea how attacking they are. They just haven’t the slightest idea.”
“You mean they are bitchy and they don’t know it?” I asked hoping against hope I had understood her correctly.
“Yes, that’s exactly what I mean.”
“Oh. Well that actually makes me feel better. Some people are intentionally nasty but others are unconscious? They are oblivious about how nasty they are, how biting and what not?”
“Yes. They have no awareness whatsoever.”
“Oh my God, does that explain a lot,” I said as the information filtered in. I recalled a conversation with satori a year ago. “Maybe they don’t know they are a bitch,” satori said. I did not get it at the time but I got it last night. “So they run around being nasty, no one wants anything to do with them and they have no idea why?”
“Exactly.”
“I know a lot of people like that. They think they are sweet but they’re horrible. They are horrific.”
“Yes, hon you would know a lot of then, there are a lot of them out there.”
“And you mean no idea?” I asked even though I already knew the answer.
“None. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.”
“Well, fuck me. This is the best thing I have found out in about a million years.”
She snorted.
Have you ever wanted to get away from someone because of their attacking / aggressiveness when they would never see themselves as aggressive?
26 Responses to “Aggressive People Who Believe Themselves Passive: Astrologer Claire-France Perez On The Unconscious Mars”
Yes, but I have come to be ok with others unknowing. I stay and wonder what all the anger is about. Usually its either a way of connecting or pushing away. It relates to Transference rather than projection or displacement.
kingsley
Kingsley now I have to figure out the difference between projection and transference, can you help?
Projection is a kind of blaming another person for ones inner stress or predicament. Vengeful Child, doesn’t really deal with the issues and denial is apparent.
Displacement is about being angry with person X but instead of being angry directly with X, the person gets angry with person Y.
Transference is usually related to aspects of ones unresolved childhood experiences and in the course of interacting within groups or authorities the person “picks” identifies another person who may remind them of a father or mother figure (projective identification) and transfers their difficulty in dealing with that stress onto the other person. Psychotherapists are always working with that kind of transference, thats where the work lays. The counsellor must be ok with themselves so that they can work in that transference and go to supervision/therapy themselves so they keep their countertransference in check.
Passive Agressive is being highly conforming “being so nice” but rebellious at the same time leaving their anger to go off in the other person. Sometimes one doesn’t realise the PA has been angry with you until the next day when you realise their is a “knife in your back” Sugar coated rebelliousness and anger squeezing out the sides. Sometimes all of the above psychological descriptions about dealing with feelings are apparrent
k
I can see that happening…just like many men aren’t aware of their Venusian side, so they end up projecting their Venus on women. Perhaps these “unconscious”-Marsian women are also projecting their agressiveness on men around them (and other women)…
Huh. I don’t know if I know anybody like that.
What I come across more is people who walk through life with a live chainsaw in their hands, constantly saying, “Why is everybody so mean to me?” without realizing that they are attacking the most innocent gestures.
Not people who don’t realize that they are fighting, but people who think that their fighting instinct is SO JUSTIFIED ALL THE TIME because they never stop feeling beset. (Usually because they went through some horrible time in their lives and never really figured out that it ended.)
Course, I tend to be prone to that, so that may be why I see it everywhere.
I don’t think of myself as aggressive in any way. I begin to worry about how other people see me. I’m definitely not much aware of my (12th house, Capricorn) Mars.
Becca - I have had some awareness of you for 5 years or so and I pay attention. Not only are you not aggressive, or mean-spirited, you are quite kind and very reliably so.
yes.
but it helps to realize i have done it, too. my entire interaction with my mother was full of that (let alone the girls in school who dumped on me) so it took me awhile to untangle it all out of my head. i’m sure there’s still some left in there.
it helps to recognize that this kind of thing happens, a lot, and can be so easy.
I do this. I have to be very very careful not to unconsciously attack my partner and my coworkers. 10th house Virgo Mars squared my 7th house Gemini Mercury and opposing Saturn in the 4th in Pisces. It’s tricky and it’s taken me most of my life so far to learn to deal with it.
I’ve noticed some people who slide into mean/attacking but would deny, only when they get around someone they sense is an easy target, a victim, a whipping post, maybe. It’s more like a pecking order thing, I’m not sure, like it’s an opening to vent their internal sarcasm and meaness. In particular, a woman I know who has just about all planets in Leo…
Mari, thanks for mentioning those types.
I now know exactly what you guys are referring to… and I used to work for her. *shudder*
Lupa: thanks for your honesty. It truly rocks my world.
Kingsley: thanks for posting this. I ended a friendship based on this type of denial. It was so painful, but I couldn’t ignorantly wish that my positiveness would transform her attitude.
I recall her sneering and calling a beautiful, cheerful lady a c*** because of her outfit alone (which was quite lovely) and knew the friendship was doomed. It was like being stabbed hearing that kind of vitriol.
Yes she did have unresolved issues stemming from childhood …but to quote her “I never analyze my own behaviour.”
I tried very hard to stay in there but the end lesson for me was, of course, you can’t do someone’s emotional work for them.
ewinbee, I’m just still totally cracking up over your chainsaw (massacre) metaphor. Are you a writer? I think I’ve been the faller for a good part of my life (as in falling trees, here in the NW, a chainsaw wielder).
And speaking of people you have worked for, why is it that just about everyone I know, everywhere, has had to put up with the “psycho bitch boss from hell”? How do they get to torment all my friends and family? The only thing I can think of is that it serves as a function to push someone out of the nest.
and how does the psycho bitch from hell manage to work at so many different places at the same time?
Mari, I write. 
Does that mean I’m a writer? I have yet to get paid for anything but proofreading. I so appreciate the compliment though!
On the “psycho bitch boss from hell” phenomenon… and this is actually very topical to this post… I have a theory that our culture doesn’t (yet) teach women how to sit comfortably in positions of authority. Yeah, I’ve heard a lot about women being resented in power just because they are women, but most of the problems I’ve had with female managers have arisen from insecurity in their roles and a seeming need to prove their power OVER and OVER again. I’ve seen men do it too. Just not as often.
Kashmiri, people who know me would say it’s not so but I know the capacity to lash out at people is there. I have to pay very close attention to myself to know if the people around me are being hypersensitive or if I am projecting rage I wasn’t aware of. It’s most likely to come out with my co-workers when I feel they aren’t paying as much attention to detail as I would. (Virgo Mars) And with my partner or family for much more complex reasons.
I worked for a while in a corporate pet store grooming salon. The retail store managers were our superiors in some respects and would come in and do their little checklists to make sure we were following policy. Sometimes they would pick a battle with us and then leave. I would always turn to the girls and say don’t worry, they just have tiny cocks. Which from me meant they have no power anywhere else in their lives and no hope to have power beyond bossing around hourly staff and groomers who made more than they did.
the united nations in me asks what if the pscho bitch from hell was raped as a child.
i have to constantly remind myself to be less judgemental, to walk a mile in their shoes and to ask myself what is behind their behaviour.
i remember working in retail sales one long saturday, it was closing time and I had forgot to lock the door and turn off the open sign. A customer walked in and said to me ‘the least you could do is smile’ He did not know that I would be visiting my father in law, who was dying of cancer right after work.
when i remember that story it reminds me to cut people slack and to not be so quick to judge, and i admit that i am not always good at it.
dear psycho bitch from hell. I am sorry that your life has been so hard for you. I hope that you find peace and happiness
“A customer walked in and said to me ‘the least you could do is smile’ He did not know that I would be visiting my father in law, who was dying of cancer right after work.”
And besides that, what a control freak!!!
and my father in law did basically die right after work, it was that fast.
i am getting better at responding to control freaks but in that moment it was certainly difficult
I used to be that bitch. Cancer mars, saturn conjunct. What I didn’t realize, and now do very differently is that I didn’t warn people when they had crossed a line and so became very unreasonably angry when they did it again and again and again.
I think my head was often elsewhere and so I didn’t have an awareness when I was younger that someone was treating me so poorly that it became extreme but by then I didn’t know how to respond except by pushing back - hard. I was not in control so to speak.
Very often I never expressed that anger to anyone. I turned it inwards on myself. I have injuries to prove it too. Whenever I was angry I would stop caring about my body and end up with a surprise, bad, injury. I was always surprised when that happened.
A long bit of a meditation retreat brought me face to face with that behavior. I have since changed. I channel my energy and anger into physical projects - usually around the house (cancer) which helps immensely. I also, try to calmly let people know boundaries and appropriate behavior. Some of my extended family is not easy to deal with…. My friends I can choose and those are much easier to deal with, as I have rare rare occasions to let anyone that is a friend know that something isn’t right.
thanks mudlikesubstance! you are right it is good to let people know that you have boundaries
“I didn’t have an awareness when I was younger that someone was treating me so poorly that it became extreme but by then I didn’t know how to respond except by pushing back - hard.”
I have had a variation of this problem too. People would press me and push me over and over again until I just couldn’t take it anymore. Except instead of pushing back, I would just disappear completely or get really cold towards them. I definitely avoid confrontations. Mars square moon in capricorn/conjunct neptune?
I’ve learned over the years to deal with anger in a more direct way, to let others know nicely when they’re crossing a line (at the appropriate time) instead of waiting till it’s extreme and I’m stewing in resentment.
I wouldn’t call myself ‘bitchy’ but once someone has proven to treat me poorly repeatedly, I do have a tendency to be cold and unresponsive thereafter in the way I treat them. Not quite a grudge, but a low level resentment I guess. Mars opposed Saturn
well.. im not a woman but I have an interesting mars placement.
–in the 12th house of aries.. that’s right, an aries mars in th 12th.. if u would like to use chiron; its also part of a cardinal grand cross.
I don’t find myself to be aggressive at all.. I have a 5th house Sun in Virgo and a Leo Moon that conjuncts my Venus in Cancer..
the aggressive side might be more my Lilith I believe, shes 2 degrees away from my sun and south node conjunction at exactly 14 degrees.
I won’t get into much detail but I believe im pretty darn passive..
my mars semi-squares my pluto in scorpio, it squares my neptune in capricorn and chiron in cancer..
you would believe it to be enough but no, this mofo still has time to oppose my mrcury in libra too.
have no idea if im one of these aggressive people you speak of, but if I am.. please advise me so.
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