Wouldn’t it be funny if he was a salesman?

i have Mars on the midhaven which imparts a saturn quality to it - disciplined and focused, and then i have experience with several mars/saturn people in my life - including my current best friend. they all seem to have attracted cruelty in some form - from their parents or in their relationships.

the ones who seek to understand why are less likely to perpetuate it - really fine people in fact.
the unconscious ones who blame everyone else for their problems and frustraions - leave a wake of pain and abuse in their path and ultimately end up isolating themselves.

oh dear… you’ve got me a tad concerned. i too like g have mars trine saturn. personally i always thought this aspect a good thing. that is, i can shoulder responsibilities or situations for periods at a time that others might not be able to do or would find unacceptable. however, i do not consider myself a warrior in the least bit.

i had no idea about the “cruelty connection” to this aspect. i can be defensive in my speech and mannerism whether or not something done or said by another is a real attack ~it just has to be perceived real enough by me to take that stance. however, i am working on modifiying and toning down this part of my character.

…now that i have peppered this post with department of defense speak, i think i am due to sit down and think this mars saturn aspect through more in depth, but not until after the holidays.

merry christmas and a happy new year Elsa and to everyone else. ~cheers v

Mars-Saturn square. Still waiting for when I’ll become cruel and ruthless :-D. Saturn wherever it is causes some trouble with the energy of the signs, houses and planets involved, particularly with hard aspects, and might also create a somewhat distorted perception of the issues involved. With Mars it’s will, assertion, aggression, power, energy, sometimes sexuality (particularly im men’s charts). Cruelty and dominance are over-compensation for feelings of weakness and frustration or for power issues that were somehow emphasized in childhood. So most Mars-Saturn are not cruel. A sense of weakness and dificulty to assert yourself, or not knowing what you want or how to get it or a feeling that you never get what you want and your will and desires are frustrated, and also experiencing violence from others, sorta meeting Mars outside, are more common as far as I know (reading about it and a few people I know with Mars-Saturn). To a man there could be an issue with his masculinity and his image of himself as a man or his sexuality, and to a woman with her “masculine” side and men in her life. You may be angry because you’re frustrated or you could be someone who doesn’t express their anger or turn it inward and it builds up and can cause problems.

How does it manifest in my life? The most disturbing manifestation is not knowing what I want. For many years I just felt I don’t want anything. When I do want something I usually don’t get it or there are a lot of difficulties and obstacles. I’m not assertive enough many times and I experience my own assertion as aggression. I feel weak. I guess having Mars in Cancer and Saturn in Aries stresses it.

I also experienced a bit of violence. When I was a kid I was a nerd and didn’t know how to defend myself so I was picked as the easy target by the local hoodlum. My mother tried to talk with his father but he said his son’s behavior was just natural and it was my fault because I didn’t defend myself, my father agreed with him and refused to do anything about it, he behaved like the other kid’s constant aggression was normal and natural and it’s my fault for not defending myself. He didn’t try to teach me how to defend myself and I just didn’t know how to strike back or how to strike at all. I was a 6 years old bookworm poetry reciting girl who just couldn’t take on the boys in the yard :-). That’s the way I see it now, but back then all I was aware of is my weakness, helplessness, fear, humiliation and frustration and being controlled by this violent kid. It could have distorted my perception of power - make me think aggression and violence are natural and acceptable behavior and when you’re strong and violent you rightfully own the world and the weak rightfully perish - Hitler had a Mars-Saturn square and he took it very far. My father, on the other hand, is a survivor of Nazi concentration camps, being strong is all-important to him for a very good reason.

So this is the type of early experiences and feelings that some Mars-Saturn pepole later compenstae for by being cruel and ruthless themselves. And once they feel power they could become addicted to it. Most Mars-Saturn people are not like that, but some famous Mars-Saturn people are and it’s often what got them famous so this aspect has a reputation.

What’s the upside? As usual with Saturn, when you work out your issues you can integrate the energies of Mars and Saturn and start enjoying its gift - determination, discipline, a realistic and constructed approach to how you can get what you want, steadily and relentlessly working to get there. Bascially what g describes in #4. Maybe it’s easier and more natural with the harmonious aspects, but it’s possible with any aspect. I’m still working on it :-). Oh, and I guess that like the Special Forces guy you can also chase the bad violent guys rather than being one yourself

another few thoughts on mars/saturn -
as a male - being around a female with an integrated, mature mars is attractive. such a woman asserts herself and asks for what she desires instead of posturing to manipulate desire from me or projecting her desire onto me.
(oppressive)

and this is not just limited to mars/saturn aspects - relating in general is facilitated by having mars integrated into the picture on both sides of the equation. i am drawn to mars saturn type people because with maturity and the hard work - they are more likely to have that facet of themselves ( mars) on the table and expressing itself cleanly.

I dated a Mars conjunct Saturn SCORPIO - surprise, surprise, he was in the Royal Navy, UK - he scratched himself often at work, by accident on sharp objects - His venus also TRINED saturn so he was reserved emotionally & physically & I believe he deprived himself from sex while in a committed relationship: which meant for the most part, he was LOYAL. However, he used alcohol (jupiter conjunct neptune) to suppress all his obvious frustration.

Its always much more convenient to DENY DENY…blame it all on the alcohol.

Its a shame b/c he had other qualities that made me care about him dearly:(