Um yeah. Desperate today frequently means desperate tomorrow. Next month or next year is another animal.

Desperation’s rarely a ‘fast transit’. It’s more often a slow transit or a natal condition that can ‘flare up’ at times. When drugs or alcohol are involved all bets are off. Those are classic agents of desperation - and make latent insecurity flare up with remarkable speed and regularity. It often looks like confidence, but isn’t.

Truly desperate people are hungry and have not yet learned (or remembered) how to nourish themselves emotionally/psychically. It may be very visible in the chart, but it’s wise to let a person show themselves apart from the chart as well. People do amazing stuff with all kinds of charts.

People who are desperate for relationships often feel a lack. This is often signified by a difficult Saturn contact to Venus of love, or Mars of sex. Attention is directed (or avoided) in the area of life represented by any point in contact with Saturn. Saturn represents the need for persistence and patience in overcoming obstacles, and understanding limits.

Again, yes. People feel despair(the state of desperation) and it can be observed astrologically, but there are a lot of factors. There is no simple, foolproof recipe.

Astrology is incredibly complicated.

Saturn is classic melancholic despair and the sense of inadequacy. There is also Plutonian despair and Neptunian despair. It is easy to see the most common flavors of romantic desperation in the chart. Venus or Mars with Neptune is often read as ‘divine discontent’. Pluto is an appetite that is near impossible to satisfy.

Neptune and Pluto people may go through a lot of partners. Saturn people may have few opportunities, and feel themselves unworthy or incapable of responding successfully to opportunity. Desperate Neptune’s partner is never perfect enough; or is believed perfect to fill that desperate void. Desperate Pluto’s partner may not have the depth, fortitude or passion to weather storms; or the partner is a possession clung to out of desperate fear of abandonment.

There are so many shades and subtle nuances to desperation. Single people aren’t always the most desperate romantics. They’re just easier to spot.

Timing is ALWAYS a factor, but natal patterns of behavior are also a strong force. The chart is never standing apart from the transits. And the person is in charge of themselves and their inner development.

TEMPORARY DESPERATION: One may have a very ‘happy’ Moon, but a hard Saturn transit will often coincide with difficult feelings of lack. Especially a lack of emotional support and security. This is reasonably predictable desperation - temporary desperation.

Desperation is often impatience/frustration with the condition of life as it is. Other times it is a misperception of things as they are. Life is seen as hopeless, and a desperate person may have a hard time interpreting signals.

Many of the planets of despair (in stressful aspect) are also indicators of *lowered self esteem*. Desperate people often have little or no self esteem. Sometimes this may only affect one area of life. e.g. Great job, crappy relationships. This can be seen, and it can be ‘outgrown’ or tolerated skillfully.

I wouldn’t start judging other’s desperation without grip on my own astrological patterns of unmet need and unconscious behavior. Start with the chart *and* look in your heart.

Romantically, “Too desperate” is someone whose chart is *considerably* more stressful than yours. If you have a lot of squares and oppositions, your energy is very challenging for those with ’softer’ charts full of trines and sextiles. It’s all relative, a matter of proportion. The imbalance may not be actual desperation, but a type of urgency or intensity that is a poor fit. The same thing can be seen in charts with many exact aspects, compared to others with ‘looser’ charts.

The woman seeking advice shut herself down(and wrote to Elsa) after an appealing man reached out out to her. She didn’t want to push too hard. A timely response to an invitation to communicate is not pushing too hard. 3 or more responses to a single communication is pushing to hard.

Relationships are a play of balance(proportion). The give and take requires us to *listen* and *trust* a person wants to hear from us when they write exactly that.

Hi Marly,
I’m glad my comments help you think.
“The more you know, the less you need.”

I am quite an intense person myself, and decided to learn ways to mellow out, as well as accept myself. My chart shows lifelong challenges in relationships and a lot of other places. I’ve made bad decisions and learned from them. But now I own/know myself more than I once did. I care a lot less whether all people like/love me or not, and also get insights into how I can be Really Hard to be around as well.

Learning to bank your fires and decide whether or not it’s in your best interest to do *anything* “RIGHT NOW RIGHT THIS MINUTE” can be exceptionaly helpful. Next time that happens, maybe you’d like to take a minute and ask yourself, “Why?” Is it because there’s a strong feeling coming up and you want some distraction? Asking why(slowing down to observe), is a discipline practice. I tend to encourage people to strengthen their Saturn muscles or learn to use them in less rigid ways…

With strong Pisces, Neptune, and 12, you probably also ‘check out’ as much as you go!go!go! Saturn can help you ‘check in’ and moderate this energy too. (but this is super general. I’m a ‘whole chart’ astrologer and have no clue what’s actually going on with you)

You might find a recent thread about Moon/Pluto on the list Psychological Astrology useful. Just sign up and go to the archives. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PsychologicalAstrology/ Judy Hall’s book The Hades Moon is all about Moon Pluto aspects.

Just wanted to add that there’s a lot of desperation in this world that has precious little to do with someone’s personality or self esteem but is still related to astrology. The desperation of survival that most of us in developed nations don’t encounter, but pretty much represents the majority of people.

e.g. Pluto transits 4th, conjunct natal moon. You’ve lost everything in the New Orleans flooding. So you’re totally desperate but that’s not a result of low self esteem. Or Jupiter squares Neptune in the skies, trans Saturn squares the ruler of your 2nd house: your small African chicken farm is now kaput due to avian flu. You are bankrupt and broke, now very desperate, and the situation has nothing to do with not knowing how to nourish yourself. These people may also become too desperate. As in criminal behaviour desperate.

I don’t think they’re completely separate situations - desperation from within or without, but I think we need to consider external, environmental causes of desperation that are ALSO indicated by astrology.

So I’d say for some people desperation is something that really does come and go, and that may or may not have a relation to having emotional, interpersonal issues.

Hey there CC,

Thanks for responding. I had the impression from Elsa’s post that she was speaking about a more general type of desperation so I thought I’d add in another angle. So your comment was very lucid. I agree, people too desperate for relationships probably have interpersonal issues. And yes, it’s not really a sound strategy to look for mundane events in the natal chart!

Now that you mention it, looking to the moon does seem a good starting point b/c of its connection to instincts, emotional cognition, and one’s reactions to situations etc. Afterall, people may suffer the same traumas, but some may become far more desperate than others.